Upgrading the heating system to bioethanol or Diesel fuel

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Sale on combustion or parking heaters today! I just bought a gasoline parking heater on aliexpress today 3/25 for $532 including shipping. They have the gas and diesel models with basic timers for this price. Or if you want to splurge they have ones with remotes or cell phone control. This is a one day sale so good luck to you if you have to time to figure it out. Feel free to contact me if you need info.
 
I took a look at the heaters mentioned, they appear to be espar (eberspacher) knock offs, judging by the poor English in the description I would recommend that you follow the espar instructions to install, I've got a webasto unit installed in mine and I guarantee you will not regret having a fuel heater, here's a few tips to share,
1- if it is going to be used in series with the electric heater plumb the fuel heater after the factory circulation pump
2- use the fan motor to activate a relay for the power switch, the fan must be on high to supply enough power to turn the relay on, when pre heating this is my fail safe so the fuel heater isn't accidentally started while in my attached garage
3- the constant power wire is a must, don't put it on a switch, it is needed to keep the heater running for a predetermined time after shutdown
4- angle the fuel pump with the output slightly higher than the input 10-15 degrees, recommended by espar to keep the pump from premature burn out
5- maintain a good amount of clearance between the exhaust and any plastics
 
I see a diesel one there for $442 plus $96 shipping ($538) and the sale is for the next 5 days

Not sure I'd want a gasoline version

Don
 
Folks,
Everyone who was interested in bulk purchase: I do not think we can get anything better than that. Plus, it ships directly to your door. Diesel or gasoline, does not matter.
If you are concerned about quality, as far as my experience goes, it works flawlesly. I have had very few incidences when the heater would not turn off when I wanted to but when I attempted to shutdown again, it will do so.
When you experiment with different fuels or have incorrect/unreliable wiring, you may have some errors as well but it is not permanent damage by any means.

A few weeks after receiving the heater, I have also received a bill from Fedex to pay import duty of roughly $21, just so you know what to expect.

The modification is definitely worth it, even if you remove the original PTC heater.

Good luck!
Stan
 
jaraczs said:
... Everyone who was interested in bulk purchase: I do not think we can get anything better than that. Plus, it ships directly to your door ... Stan
Thanks Stan. I ordered one. I wish it was installed last winter. And thanks for your great documentation on how to install the heater. Good job.
 
Thank you guys,
This would not be possible without the collective brainstorming on this blog. :)

I do have lots of "second generation" ideas on the fuel heater because the parking heater as well as whatever else on the market is not a perfect fit for EV but it is a perfect start.
The difference between gasoline and diesel version is just software setting. There are no differentiating hardware components between these two. Yet, there is a big difference in heating output at the lower stage, 1.5 kW for gas vs. 2.4 kW for diesel. I suspect it could be related to the "poor" flammability of diesel fuel.
If I were good at making software, I have a laundry list of modifications that I would like to make to that heater software. This could be a cheap fix on existing hardware. If anybody is good at it, we can start thinking of opening business. It does not look like any EV manufacturer wants to offer combustion heater, so there is an opportunity.

I guess the only hardware change on my list would be re-engineering of the fuel delivery. It looks like some residual fuel enters the furnace after the fire comes off, which is responsible for the exhaust odor during shutdown. In an ideal world, oxygen sensor would be great add-on as it would feed the information to the processor to allow usage of various fuels.
Stan
 
jaraczs said:
The difference between gasoline and diesel version is just software setting.
The big difference is that gasoline is very volatile at ambient temperatures while diesel is not - Diesel (or kerosene which is what I would use) may be a bit more expensive and may be slightly more odorus but the fact is, it's much, much safer for this application . . . . especially if you intend to burn it in a $400 made in China 'furnace'

GM installed gasoline burning heaters in the trunks of Corvairs in the early '60's and while they were fairly safe, though there were several reports of trunk lids blown sky-high . . . . but that was GM and this is Chinese plastic
Yet, there is a big difference in heating output at the lower stage, 1.5 kW for gas vs. 2.4 kW for diesel. I suspect it could be related to the "poor" flammability of diesel fuel.
'Poor flammability' yet it puts out way more heat? Reason enough to stick with diesel - Much more heat for less fuel consumed . . . . and did I mention, it's much safer

If none of the above makes any sense and you still think gasoline is a good idea, be very careful where you mount the fuel tank, as the fumes from it are very volatile - Far from the furnace and somewhere it's not likely to explode on you in the event of an accident. Even then, you're going to have a plastic line full of gasoline which is quite likely to be cut in an accident and all it needs is a spark . . . .

If we were installing a gas burning heaters in gas burning cars, I could *maybe* understand the choice, as the well designed, properly placed, fairly safe fuel tank is already there in the car, but since we're starting from scratch and installing everything I can't see a single advantage to adding a gasoline bomb to an otherwise very safe vehicle

Don
 
Hey Stan,

So does that mean that you can change the setting on the heater from the controller for the fuel type ? I didn't specify the fuel type in the order.

I believe diesel and gas have slightly different energy density about 12 % I think.

Don.....
 
DonDakin said:
So does that mean that you can change the setting on the heater from the controller for the fuel type ? I didn't specify the fuel type in the order.

I believe diesel and gas have slightly different energy density about 12 % I think.

Don.....
Don,
You cannot specify the fuel from the controller. What I meant is, if you are able to heck into the software, you can change many things, the fuel type being one of them.

As for the energy density, according to Wikipedia at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density
Diesel has 9% higher energy density per liter than gasoline, pretty much the same as your figure. :)

In reference to Don from MS, gasoline has flash point of -43C (-45F), while diesel has 38C (100.4F). These are numbers taken from BP Material Safety Data Sheet. Flash point is a temperature above which the substance forms vapors that are concentrated enough to make explosive mixture in air. The figures are quite different. Therefore, speaking of fire safety, diesel is clear winner, which is why I installed diesel version of parking heater.
 
Hi Stan

I'm still a little confused here. Just to clear things up when you order you have to specify gas or diesel ?

When the unit comes is it labeled gas only or diesel only ? How do you know what versions you have.

The spec for the unit say gas or diesel. Will it just run or either one ?

Thanks

Don......
 
Don,
Sorry for the confusion. If you order this one, it says diesel:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Liqu...bus-car-etc-similar-to-webasto/743599045.html

In the product description, it is rather universal for gas and diesel but you are ordering diesel.

I acknowledge that Ali Express may offer the same product multiple times but I have specified a product number in the procedure so, it should help. To avoid receiving wrong fuel product, I suggest to send an e-mail to the seller at [email protected] with your order number. The person introduced herself as Natasha. I hope everything goes well.

My invoice said "iron parking heater no brand" and Packing List was entitled "Water Parking Heater 5KW12V Diesel". So I was sure what I have received. I think it would run on gasoline as well, maybe less efficiently. I suspect the gasoline heater would have problems with diesel fuel, though (in low heat mode).
Stan
 
Heater arrived today.

Everything looks great.

First step is to build a little test stand and wire it up and learn how it works.

Lots of time before next winter......

Don......
 
Very interested in this approach to heating our cabins and think it's the only practical way to heat our cars in the Canadian winter.
I've been sitting on the fence on moving on it.

Evaluated propane, infra red, heated floor mats, adding elect windsheild defroster heaters .
I don't think a heat pump is enough for our temperatures up here.

I guess there might be a new class of vehicle now LOL
A
Hybrheater
 
Sandange,
Absolutely, for Canadian climate only combustion heater. Actually, I would recommend combustion heater for any region experiencing temperatures below 0C (32F).

Don,
I have tried a few fuels in the diesel heater including hexanes, BBQ lighter fluid, ethanol and mixtures thereof with diesel. If I had gasoline in my home, I would definitely tried that, too. They all worked but ethanol gives poor BTU, less than what I expected from the energy content. They all (except diesel) produced no odor during start/run/shutdown. I tried cooking oil but that did not work and took me a week to purge the odor away from the system. Do not try it!

Testing the system: Absolutely! There are videos on Youtube that you can use for an inspiration how to set it up just for the temporary test.

Good luck!
Stan
 
DonDakin said:
Got my heAter set up and tested.
I'm surprised that the exhaust gases are so hot. Pumping so much heat out of the exhaust seems like a considerable waste of energy. Maybe the Chinese manufacturer didn't spend much effort on energy efficiency. I wonder if the exhaust of a Webasto heater is so hot.
 
alohart said:
DonDakin said:
Got my heAter set up and tested.
I'm surprised that the exhaust gases are so hot. Pumping so much heat out of the exhaust seems like a considerable waste of energy. Maybe the Chinese manufacturer didn't spend much effort on energy efficiency. I wonder if the exhaust of a Webasto heater is so hot.
I'm guessing he was running the heater on high - Something you may not need to do too often to warm the car

Don
 
The unit is pretty small so it doesn't have room for a complex heat exchanger I think it's just a fire in a can with a water jacket. The fuel burn rate on high seemed to be about .5 liters per hour on high which is good in my opinion.

But I have to admit it would be nice to be able to run a turbine off the exhaust heat and create some electricity.......

For the video it was on high all the time and the pail of water was much more then the what's normally in the system.

I expect to burn about 200-300 ml of fuel per hour in normal use. I think a 2 litre tank would be fine.

Don.....
 
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