Upgrading the heating system to bioethanol or Diesel fuel
- Thread starter Llecentaur
- Start date
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pluto
Active member
Considering doing this to my new-to-me 2012 iMiEV before winter, I live just outside Toronto, Ontario. Round trip daily commute is only 40km but I would like to be warm and have flexibility to do more driving if need be. Plus I just like doing cool things like this 
I watched Ben's great YouTube videos and I think it's something I can handle. I have zero experience with HVAC systems, cabin heaters, or really much in the way of automotive work in general. I am fairly comfortable with electronics, and I plan to get some help from my father-in-law who is more mechanically inclined.
I'm a bit nervous about purchasing the 'knock-off' versions from Ali-Express / Chinese ebay sellers; the cost of the genuine Webasto Thermo Top Evo 4 doesn't seem all that much higher (just under 500 euros plus shipping from Germany). Will the unit here give me everything I need or do I need to purchase other components?
Couple questions:
1) I see this unit is available in Diesel or Gas, what are the pros/cons of these fuel types? I am interested in using bio-diesel potentially. I don't think E85 is available anywhere near me
2) Anything else I should consider?
Thanks!
I watched Ben's great YouTube videos and I think it's something I can handle. I have zero experience with HVAC systems, cabin heaters, or really much in the way of automotive work in general. I am fairly comfortable with electronics, and I plan to get some help from my father-in-law who is more mechanically inclined.I'm a bit nervous about purchasing the 'knock-off' versions from Ali-Express / Chinese ebay sellers; the cost of the genuine Webasto Thermo Top Evo 4 doesn't seem all that much higher (just under 500 euros plus shipping from Germany). Will the unit here give me everything I need or do I need to purchase other components?
Couple questions:
1) I see this unit is available in Diesel or Gas, what are the pros/cons of these fuel types? I am interested in using bio-diesel potentially. I don't think E85 is available anywhere near me
2) Anything else I should consider?
Thanks!
I think the biggest 'con' is that gasoline is explosive, whereas diesel or ethanol is just flammable. If you plan on mounting a small container of fuel up front, under the hood where it may get crunched in an accident, I would definitely not go with gasoline
Probably everyone here but me is too young to remember, but Chevy offered a gasoline fired catalytic heater mounted in the front trunk of their Corvair in the early 1960's and there were occasionally . . . . shall we say . . . . malfunctions with the system which caused the trunk lid to be blown skyward off the car - They quit offering those heaters after only a year or two. In later years though, many of those gasoline heaters were retrofitted to heat hunting cabins and other things. They were a very quiet, fuel efficient heating system with way more capacity than any car would ever need . . . . but they ran on gasoline!!
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=1960+corvair+gas+heater&view=detailv2&&id=7C6A39C7B0F2B3A09C2734992824BB24D3B07F7B&selectedIndex=0&ccid=mzdLFB2e&simid=608026619917501822&thid=OIP.M9b374b141d9e0f9c7cca53b941ce7919H0&ajaxhist=0
Don
Probably everyone here but me is too young to remember, but Chevy offered a gasoline fired catalytic heater mounted in the front trunk of their Corvair in the early 1960's and there were occasionally . . . . shall we say . . . . malfunctions with the system which caused the trunk lid to be blown skyward off the car - They quit offering those heaters after only a year or two. In later years though, many of those gasoline heaters were retrofitted to heat hunting cabins and other things. They were a very quiet, fuel efficient heating system with way more capacity than any car would ever need . . . . but they ran on gasoline!!
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=1960+corvair+gas+heater&view=detailv2&&id=7C6A39C7B0F2B3A09C2734992824BB24D3B07F7B&selectedIndex=0&ccid=mzdLFB2e&simid=608026619917501822&thid=OIP.M9b374b141d9e0f9c7cca53b941ce7919H0&ajaxhist=0
Don
sandange
Well-known member
I installed the knock off, jp parking diesel heater. I've used it for 2 seasons now,blew a fuse once . I have 89,000 km, so far in a little over 2 years . Used the heater for at least 1/3 of those kms. Totally changes the EV winter driving experience. Do it and don't look back. I'm in Quebec
DonDakin
Well-known member
Most of the air heaters that i found are 2kw the water heater is 5 kw.
The diesel water heater plumbs right into the existing heater loop all the controls face foot defrost work normally and you can heat the battery too if you are inclined to need that.
I would think that an air heater install would be more difficult to route the heat where you want or need it. Plus the extra power of the water heater will be appreciated.
Like sandange I also bought the chinese alibaba one still running strong since winter 2014. You can get it for $516 usd shipping included. I would reccomend it. If you want something else make sure the unit will fit where ever you are planning to mount it.
Don.....
The diesel water heater plumbs right into the existing heater loop all the controls face foot defrost work normally and you can heat the battery too if you are inclined to need that.
I would think that an air heater install would be more difficult to route the heat where you want or need it. Plus the extra power of the water heater will be appreciated.
Like sandange I also bought the chinese alibaba one still running strong since winter 2014. You can get it for $516 usd shipping included. I would reccomend it. If you want something else make sure the unit will fit where ever you are planning to mount it.
Don.....
I think it would be considerably harder to install. With the water heater, all you need to do is Tee into the existing water loop and the rest is already there - A fan to recirculate the air already inside the car through the existing heater core. 100% of the install is outside the passenger compartment and no ducting of any air into or out of the car is requiredPhximiev said:
The air heater heats outside air and that would need to be ducted into the car somehow, which would be more complicated. If you did want to heat the air already inside the car, you would have to add two new ducts - One to get inside air out of the car and into the heater and then another to get the warm air from the heater back into the car, all with associated insulation on the ductwork. Also, most fuel/air heaters give you a little bit of smell to the air from whatever you're burning - Most folks wouldn't care for air tinged even a little bit by the smell of burning diesel
With the water heater, your OEM inside/outside controls all work as they always have using the existing ducting and the existing heater core and fan . . . . you very simply added a better heat source to warm the existing heater core. Thanks to Mistu for going with a standard heated water core system as that makes adding the diesel heater very simple, relatively speaking
Don
elekTrond
Active member
First I'll thank all of you who pioneered this install, making it a walk in the park. Just finished the whole thread a second time, right before I order anything. I have an electrical question about the timer wiring :arrow:
When you guys short the red and yellow wire to crank up the heater, does it have to stay shorted, or is it enough with a pulse :?:
I have decided to invest in a kit including a GSM remote, but even the chinese JP GSM thingie is a bit expensive at a $184,- alone or $150 when combined with a set. I'm probably going for a $30,- GSM relay box, if I'm not trying to transform one of my old button-phones into a remote. Then I'll have the whole GSM module essensially for free.
I like free lunches :lol:
Prices of 2016-10-07:
$460,-/set + shipping
$610,-/heater kit/set incl. GSM module + shipping
When you guys short the red and yellow wire to crank up the heater, does it have to stay shorted, or is it enough with a pulse :?:
I have decided to invest in a kit including a GSM remote, but even the chinese JP GSM thingie is a bit expensive at a $184,- alone or $150 when combined with a set. I'm probably going for a $30,- GSM relay box, if I'm not trying to transform one of my old button-phones into a remote. Then I'll have the whole GSM module essensially for free.
I like free lunches :lol:
Prices of 2016-10-07:
$460,-/set + shipping
$610,-/heater kit/set incl. GSM module + shipping
DonDakin
Well-known member
It has been awhile since i tested the heater with a bucket but i believe that you need to short those wires and keep them shorted to have the heater run. In that way you could run the heater with a simple on-off switch but the timer and remote open up more options.
if you want to install with a remote you would need to make sure that the fan comes on and the air is directed through the core as described above. I only have the mini timer on mine.
An alternative would be to use the preheat with the remote electrically and use the diesel on the road which is what i do. Actually the diesel heater is so powerful that you can get away without preheat with minimal discomfort but preheat is always nicer.
Another reason for electric preheat is that there is a kind of a plume of diesel fumes that gather around the car when it is stationary. Its not a problem when the car is rolling but depending on the wind you can suck some of it into the car when preheating. The electric preheat is obviously cleaner and without oder.
Don.....
if you want to install with a remote you would need to make sure that the fan comes on and the air is directed through the core as described above. I only have the mini timer on mine.
An alternative would be to use the preheat with the remote electrically and use the diesel on the road which is what i do. Actually the diesel heater is so powerful that you can get away without preheat with minimal discomfort but preheat is always nicer.
Another reason for electric preheat is that there is a kind of a plume of diesel fumes that gather around the car when it is stationary. Its not a problem when the car is rolling but depending on the wind you can suck some of it into the car when preheating. The electric preheat is obviously cleaner and without oder.
Don.....
elekTrond
Active member
Thanks for the quick reply, Don Dee.
Until next summer or so I live in a student condo and park in the street, often a couple of blocks away. Hence no outlet, nor preheat. Tested the OEM Omron remote while walking towards a parking house where the car charged. Like I suspected, it wouldn't connect until the very last corner. But I did indeed have GSM signal in situ, at the charging spot.
Unless I fork out an arm and a leg from my other end for der absolute spitzenklasse, all the GSM modules mostly act like simple, dumb on/off switches.
I have four realistic choices of heaters, times at least five types of GSM remote options. I'd like E85, but the government of No(r)way think hydrogen is better than PHEV is better than EV is better than biofuel/multifuel vehicles. A handfull of years ago, I converted my Toyota Starlet to E85. But, in secrecy, Statoil, with their 19'ish E85 pumps spread across Norway, secretly began removing all but two of them. BTW, did I mention that the gov control 2/3's of Statoil, aka big oil? Therefore, sulphuric diesel will be my choice. :roll:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GSM-TERMO-remote-control-module-for-Planar-air-heater-or-Binar-preheaters-/272382443679?hash=item3f6b42409f:g:EhkAAOSwNRdX38~B&vxp=mtr
Option #1 - Planar Binar 5D-C: €695,- + €120,- = €815,- ~U$D 725,-'ish
BINAR 5D 12V DIESEL GP ( KYOCERA PLUG )
with
GSM TERMO remote control module for Planar air heater or Binar preheaters
NB! "Binar 5B-С and Binar 5D-С have the lead for connection with vehicle alarm system or for GSM- modem mounting."
Option #2 - Webasto Thermo Top E/Evo/whatever 4/5 kW:
Option #3 - Espar aka Eberspächer Hydronic 5 kW:
Option #4 - JP aka Belief aka Motorcool etc. copycats:
+ webasto/espar GSM module (expensive) or generic GSM module typ $30-> or DIY GSM module or DIY cellphone approach.
I'll come back tomorrow night with more prices, parts prices etc... Zzz...
Until next summer or so I live in a student condo and park in the street, often a couple of blocks away. Hence no outlet, nor preheat.
Tested the OEM Omron remote while walking towards a parking house where the car charged. Like I suspected, it wouldn't connect until the very last corner. But I did indeed have GSM signal in situ, at the charging spot.Unless I fork out an arm and a leg from my other end for der absolute spitzenklasse, all the GSM modules mostly act like simple, dumb on/off switches.
I have four realistic choices of heaters, times at least five types of GSM remote options. I'd like E85, but the government of No(r)way think hydrogen is better than PHEV is better than EV is better than biofuel/multifuel vehicles. A handfull of years ago, I converted my Toyota Starlet to E85. But, in secrecy, Statoil, with their 19'ish E85 pumps spread across Norway, secretly began removing all but two of them. BTW, did I mention that the gov control 2/3's of Statoil, aka big oil? Therefore, sulphuric diesel will be my choice. :roll:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GSM-TERMO-remote-control-module-for-Planar-air-heater-or-Binar-preheaters-/272382443679?hash=item3f6b42409f:g:EhkAAOSwNRdX38~B&vxp=mtr
Option #1 - Planar Binar 5D-C: €695,- + €120,- = €815,- ~U$D 725,-'ish
BINAR 5D 12V DIESEL GP ( KYOCERA PLUG )
with
GSM TERMO remote control module for Planar air heater or Binar preheaters
NB! "Binar 5B-С and Binar 5D-С have the lead for connection with vehicle alarm system or for GSM- modem mounting."
Option #2 - Webasto Thermo Top E/Evo/whatever 4/5 kW:
Option #3 - Espar aka Eberspächer Hydronic 5 kW:
Option #4 - JP aka Belief aka Motorcool etc. copycats:
+ webasto/espar GSM module (expensive) or generic GSM module typ $30-> or DIY GSM module or DIY cellphone approach.
I'll come back tomorrow night with more prices, parts prices etc... Zzz...
obrother
Active member
I'm about to install my aliexpress diesel heater. I was wondering what is the reason for plumbing the coolant valve/line to the top of the reservoir. Why not the bottom of the reservoir? Is it for simplifying the install? Has anyone tried putting it closer right at the heater core input? I was also thinking to have remote coolant valves to close off/shorten the loop for effiency but have enough opening for expansion. I will keep the electric heater in place. I was also wondering if someone has found a way to keep the electric heater element off but the computer still thinks it is on and closes the damper to force all the air through the heater core when you turn temp dial to red.
DonDakin
Well-known member
Thinking about it I don't see any difference in plumbing to the top or bottom of the reservoir. Which ever way works for you. I know if you plumb to the top you dont have to drain the system to get the heater into the heating loop.
As for the air flow in the heater core its pretty simple just flick the heater to one notch above green and then return to green. The damper will move to the heater core. It will stay there also even if you switch the car on and off. It only moves to the ac coil if you move the dial down to ac. Its not really a problem. I never really touch it all winter and when i do its usually from heat to green.
One thing that happened to me last winter on a very cold day is the fuel line froze or a least i think it did. If possible maybe you can route the fuel line along side or wrapped into the heater hoses. That way if the fuel line freezes then you can run the electric heat a little to un freeze it and then start the diesel heater. Thats the only tip i can give you something i never thought about when installing my heater.
Good luck with the install and post some pictures along the way.
Don.....
As for the air flow in the heater core its pretty simple just flick the heater to one notch above green and then return to green. The damper will move to the heater core. It will stay there also even if you switch the car on and off. It only moves to the ac coil if you move the dial down to ac. Its not really a problem. I never really touch it all winter and when i do its usually from heat to green.
One thing that happened to me last winter on a very cold day is the fuel line froze or a least i think it did. If possible maybe you can route the fuel line along side or wrapped into the heater hoses. That way if the fuel line freezes then you can run the electric heat a little to un freeze it and then start the diesel heater. Thats the only tip i can give you something i never thought about when installing my heater.
Good luck with the install and post some pictures along the way.
Don.....
obrother
Active member
I know in the winter diesel trucks use diesel antifreeze. My dad used to use it on his pickup truck. I'm not sure how that would work with the heater.
From the Webasto website:
All Webasto heaters are tested and approved to work in a temperature range from -30° to +40°C or more. The fuel used in very cold regions where temperatures can fall considerably under 0°C (arctic diesel or winter diesel) is automatically mixed with additives to prevent freezing of the fuel. Besides using this fuel, no special preparation of the heater is needed. Basically, if your vehicle can drive, your heater will run as well.
From the Webasto website:
All Webasto heaters are tested and approved to work in a temperature range from -30° to +40°C or more. The fuel used in very cold regions where temperatures can fall considerably under 0°C (arctic diesel or winter diesel) is automatically mixed with additives to prevent freezing of the fuel. Besides using this fuel, no special preparation of the heater is needed. Basically, if your vehicle can drive, your heater will run as well.
elekTrond
Active member
@obrother #2: Our winterized diesel has a kerosene/paraffin mixture. :idea:
@obrother #1: I do not yet fully understand the reasons behind teeing in close to the top, other than easy access without a workshop lift. If you got the JP-Eberspächer/Espar style heater kit with the nice "double-tee with a one-way valve in it", then you can hook the two heaters up in parallel.
I like KISS, and believe a serial loop with only _one_ water pump should be fine. The official, norwegian (texted) Mitsu-Espar/Eberspächer install manual put the Espar in series, between OEM mitsuHeaterWaterPump and the OEM mitsuHeaterCore. I have also considered tee'ing in my diesel heater after the heater core, right before the heat exhanger register, for maximum energy delivery.
#4 hose: official norwegian mitsuEberEspar
me: #5 if practical, if not #4, I suppose.
#2 hose: jaraczs, DonD, Ben Nelson +++ (thread TL;DR again ; )
The total amount of water is just a couple of litres (4.x ?), incl heater core and the expansion heater. Firstly I don't think it will slow down the initial heat up/defrost period much. Secondly the coolant probably won't loose much heat on its way via the heater core. Thirdly, I feel like more coolant to work with will give the parking heater a little more headroom to work with/in/within.
For the fourth, "engineering me" thinks #2 is the "worst" place. This makes for the longest cool-off route for the hot tap water to run. However, it may be providing the ultimate venting/bleeding spot for air locks...
@obrother #1: I do not yet fully understand the reasons behind teeing in close to the top, other than easy access without a workshop lift. If you got the JP-Eberspächer/Espar style heater kit with the nice "double-tee with a one-way valve in it", then you can hook the two heaters up in parallel.
I like KISS, and believe a serial loop with only _one_ water pump should be fine. The official, norwegian (texted) Mitsu-Espar/Eberspächer install manual put the Espar in series, between OEM mitsuHeaterWaterPump and the OEM mitsuHeaterCore. I have also considered tee'ing in my diesel heater after the heater core, right before the heat exhanger register, for maximum energy delivery.
#4 hose: official norwegian mitsuEberEspar
me: #5 if practical, if not #4, I suppose.
#2 hose: jaraczs, DonD, Ben Nelson +++ (thread TL;DR again ; )
The total amount of water is just a couple of litres (4.x ?), incl heater core and the expansion heater. Firstly I don't think it will slow down the initial heat up/defrost period much. Secondly the coolant probably won't loose much heat on its way via the heater core. Thirdly, I feel like more coolant to work with will give the parking heater a little more headroom to work with/in/within.
For the fourth, "engineering me" thinks #2 is the "worst" place. This makes for the longest cool-off route for the hot tap water to run. However, it may be providing the ultimate venting/bleeding spot for air locks...
elekTrond
Active member
ELECTRICAL:
I'm investigating locations of the nicest spots for hacking in electrial wiring. So far I've located (on-screen) the following POI's:
- 70 -COMPONENT LOCATIONS\A\Heater water pump relay
- 90 -CIRCUIT DIAGRAMS\AIR CONDITIONER<LHD>\HEATER WATER PUMP RELAY (A-114X)
- 90 -CIRCUIT DIAGRAMS\AIR CONDITIONER<LHD>\HEATER WATER PUMP ASSEMBLY (A-109)
- POWER DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM (CONTINUED)\#5-6\(23) 30A Blower relay
- 90 -CIRCUIT DIAGRAMS\AIR CONDITIONER<LHD>\#7-8\BLOWER MOTOR (B-10-2)
Note2self: The .no mitsu/eber/espar manual enter close to the blower motor itself (LHD, right side, behind glove compartment. Probably easier than struggling around the fuse/relax box, under LHD's steering wheel.
I'm investigating locations of the nicest spots for hacking in electrial wiring. So far I've located (on-screen) the following POI's:
- 70 -COMPONENT LOCATIONS\A\Heater water pump relay
- 90 -CIRCUIT DIAGRAMS\AIR CONDITIONER<LHD>\HEATER WATER PUMP RELAY (A-114X)
- 90 -CIRCUIT DIAGRAMS\AIR CONDITIONER<LHD>\HEATER WATER PUMP ASSEMBLY (A-109)
- POWER DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM (CONTINUED)\#5-6\(23) 30A Blower relay
- 90 -CIRCUIT DIAGRAMS\AIR CONDITIONER<LHD>\#7-8\BLOWER MOTOR (B-10-2)
Note2self: The .no mitsu/eber/espar manual enter close to the blower motor itself (LHD, right side, behind glove compartment. Probably easier than struggling around the fuse/relax box, under LHD's steering wheel.
By Gavin:
Decisions: https://plus.google.com/photos/photo/101196514717753615194/6341410464174968914?iem=4&gpawv=1&hl=en-US
Costs: https://plus.google.com/photos/photo/101196514717753615194/6341653498947204226?iem=4&gpawv=1&hl=en-US
An alternative: https://plus.google.com/photos/photo/101196514717753615194/6341719181736903490?iem=4&gpawv=1&hl=en-US
Fitting?: https://plus.google.com/+GavinShoebridge/posts/gLP1grLtD9g?iem=4&gpawv=1&hl=en-US
Decisions: https://plus.google.com/photos/photo/101196514717753615194/6341410464174968914?iem=4&gpawv=1&hl=en-US
Costs: https://plus.google.com/photos/photo/101196514717753615194/6341653498947204226?iem=4&gpawv=1&hl=en-US
An alternative: https://plus.google.com/photos/photo/101196514717753615194/6341719181736903490?iem=4&gpawv=1&hl=en-US
Fitting?: https://plus.google.com/+GavinShoebridge/posts/gLP1grLtD9g?iem=4&gpawv=1&hl=en-US
elekTrond
Active member
@Phximiev: friend or foe, please tell Gavin to not install a fuel-heater inside the cabin :!: Are his price quotes dated 2016-10-15? I'll repeat the water/liquid/hydronic quote here:
€484,- liquid heater
+ €048 10 % import tax
+ €106 20 % VAT
+ €101 for a 12V Li-ion battery
= €739 (USD ~$810 )
@Phximiev: I have discovered two nice alternatives for Gavin and myself:
Binar 5 Compact and the brand new 2016 released Binar 5S.
I've talked to Denis at autoterm.eu earlier about Binar heaters this week. Turns out the €695,- I first posted is included both shipping and EU taxes. My (Norway) price is just €560,- incl. shipping, ex. local (25 %) VAT.
€484,- liquid heater
+ €048 10 % import tax
+ €106 20 % VAT
+ €101 for a 12V Li-ion battery
= €739 (USD ~$810 )
@Phximiev: I have discovered two nice alternatives for Gavin and myself:
Binar 5 Compact and the brand new 2016 released Binar 5S.
I've talked to Denis at autoterm.eu earlier about Binar heaters this week. Turns out the €695,- I first posted is included both shipping and EU taxes. My (Norway) price is just €560,- incl. shipping, ex. local (25 %) VAT.
elekTrond
Active member
*** TL;DR :? Darn long post warning coming through! :lol: ***
So, I've discovered this brand new Binar 5S liquid water heater from en.autoterm.ru aka Advers/Binar/Planar/Teplostar. I saw a EU approval document datestamped 2016-10-28. In addition they have already sold a Binar 5 Compact model for some years.
Click the pics for more info. Both models:
- cost €695,-/€560,- in/outside EU incl. shipping.
- come in kits/sets with a timer/control panel.
- can have a GSM remote added (€120,-/97,- in/outside EU incl. shipping.)
- are built for Siberian winters, approved for -45°C (that's like DARN cold in Fahrenheit!)
I've been in touch with Denis at autoterm.eu for more details. I have also plowed through the install/op/user manuals. I discoved they can be remote controlled with a car alarm or other remote controls with a relay. Therefore, hopefully, we can hack our Omron MiEV remote to switch a relay on/off.
Some key features I like about the 5S:
- German pumps and connectors
- 180° swiveling nipples for coolant water - easing the install
- thresholds for heat and re-heat aka cycle mode can be set individually
- heat->standby mode: 20-95°C (default 88°C)
- you can set "GO TO standby OR re-heat (cycle) WHEN target temp (20-95°C) is reached" (100°C = boiling point in the global metric system)
- heater fan startup between 30 and 60°C (default 40°C).
- water pump continues to run in standby mode. Nice for you who prefer 15 min on, 15 min off cycles for max heat-extracting
- run "water pump mode" in the summertime
- LED matrix diplay - works when LCD panels fade out in the cold
I said before this I'd cheapskate out on a $30 generic GSM relay modem, instead of that overpriced JP Espar/Eberspächer/Webasto GSM remote control box ($185 or ~$150 in combo with a JP heater set. But, just look at this nice Binar Simcom app:
Manuals - in proper english:
Assembly instruction Binar 5S 1.64 Мб (Добавлен 28.06.2016)
Control Panel Binar 5s 1.61 Мб (Добавлен 28.06.2016)
Operating manual for Binar 5s 368.68 Кб (Добавлен 28.06.2016)
Operating manual for Binar 5B/5D-Compact ENG 911.18 Кб (Добавлен 04.02.2016)
Source: http://en.autoterm.ru/service.html
Videos:
5m31s: Engine preheater BINAR 5 UNBOXING (5 Compact unboxing @ autoterm.eu)
0m28s: 30 second turntable overview of Binar 5S
6m25s: Бинар 5 S обзор от студии АВТОЛИГА (Published on Oct 14, 2016)
6m25s: Binar 5 S review from AVTOLIGA studio NB! Youtube refuse to play through translate.google.com, atleast for me :?
Search Бинар (5S) for more clips!
Finland dealer network: https://autoterm.eu/en/dealers/
Global dealer network: http://en.autoterm.ru/dealers.html
TL;DR? :mrgreen: So, what you guys think? Especially those of you with JP heaters, since I have not landed a decision, yet. :roll:
For me - being in Europe, the Binar will cost me ~17 % more than a chinese knock-off, but still a fraction of a similar Espar/Eberspächer or Webasto. I also favor german quality parts, which I can expect to last a while - also after the warranty period.
So, I've discovered this brand new Binar 5S liquid water heater from en.autoterm.ru aka Advers/Binar/Planar/Teplostar. I saw a EU approval document datestamped 2016-10-28. In addition they have already sold a Binar 5 Compact model for some years.
Click the pics for more info. Both models:
- cost €695,-/€560,- in/outside EU incl. shipping.
- come in kits/sets with a timer/control panel.
- can have a GSM remote added (€120,-/97,- in/outside EU incl. shipping.)
- are built for Siberian winters, approved for -45°C (that's like DARN cold in Fahrenheit!)
I've been in touch with Denis at autoterm.eu for more details. I have also plowed through the install/op/user manuals. I discoved they can be remote controlled with a car alarm or other remote controls with a relay. Therefore, hopefully, we can hack our Omron MiEV remote to switch a relay on/off.
Some key features I like about the 5S:
- German pumps and connectors
- 180° swiveling nipples for coolant water - easing the install
- thresholds for heat and re-heat aka cycle mode can be set individually
- heat->standby mode: 20-95°C (default 88°C)
- you can set "GO TO standby OR re-heat (cycle) WHEN target temp (20-95°C) is reached" (100°C = boiling point in the global metric system)
- heater fan startup between 30 and 60°C (default 40°C).
- water pump continues to run in standby mode. Nice for you who prefer 15 min on, 15 min off cycles for max heat-extracting
- run "water pump mode" in the summertime
- LED matrix diplay - works when LCD panels fade out in the cold
I said before this I'd cheapskate out on a $30 generic GSM relay modem, instead of that overpriced JP Espar/Eberspächer/Webasto GSM remote control box ($185 or ~$150 in combo with a JP heater set. But, just look at this nice Binar Simcom app:
Manuals - in proper english:
Assembly instruction Binar 5S 1.64 Мб (Добавлен 28.06.2016)
Control Panel Binar 5s 1.61 Мб (Добавлен 28.06.2016)
Operating manual for Binar 5s 368.68 Кб (Добавлен 28.06.2016)
Operating manual for Binar 5B/5D-Compact ENG 911.18 Кб (Добавлен 04.02.2016)
Source: http://en.autoterm.ru/service.html
Videos:
5m31s: Engine preheater BINAR 5 UNBOXING (5 Compact unboxing @ autoterm.eu)
0m28s: 30 second turntable overview of Binar 5S
6m25s: Бинар 5 S обзор от студии АВТОЛИГА (Published on Oct 14, 2016)
6m25s: Binar 5 S review from AVTOLIGA studio NB! Youtube refuse to play through translate.google.com, atleast for me :?
Search Бинар (5S) for more clips!
Finland dealer network: https://autoterm.eu/en/dealers/
Global dealer network: http://en.autoterm.ru/dealers.html
TL;DR? :mrgreen: So, what you guys think? Especially those of you with JP heaters, since I have not landed a decision, yet. :roll:
For me - being in Europe, the Binar will cost me ~17 % more than a chinese knock-off, but still a fraction of a similar Espar/Eberspächer or Webasto. I also favor german quality parts, which I can expect to last a while - also after the warranty period.
pluto
Active member
elekTrond said:
I found a site that sells Eberspächer units starting at €418 and Webasto units starting at €595 not sure why I'd want to spend more for a Russian built unit? Russia isn't exactly known for its reliable products...
I'm still a bit leery of buying the Chinese-made Ali Express units, I think I'd rather spend a bit more for a name brand.
The Eberspächer units seem to come either with the water pump built in or separate; any feedback on which is superior for this particular application?
I have not yet contacted the company to see if they will ship outside the EU / discount the VAT.
Edit: I also found this eBay seller listing the Webasto Thermo Top Evo 4 (Diesel) for €479; doesn't say anything about VAT but they do ship to the US/Canada. It appears that this listing does not include the installation kit or control module however (not sure what good it is without it, maybe if you already have these?); this listing has these included and is €709
