Teapot gets a brand new traction pack under warranty

[WyVernator]

This is a long one so grab a drink and settle it...

It's been a while since posting on here (previously as WyVern, but since lost credentials and the email account tied to that ID).

Since then our electric blue iMiev "the Teapot" has covered 49,000km in the 2.5 yrs we have owned it and recently went in for the 45,000km service at Springwood Mitsubishi, QLD.

During that service the pack was due to be fully discharged, pack balanced and a battery report provided. After a few days I was called and told that although everything looked OK and the service was completed, the techs had problems running a report on the pack and that this often happens as the computer program is notoriously temperamental.

Now since we have had the Teapot we haven't shied away from using it as our primary driver with me commuting on a 100km motorway based round trip daily to and from Brisbane.
Recently I had noted that following a house move I was struggling to get 100km (62 miles) from a charge and was often returning home with the pack flashing empty. Mind you, I've still never seen the turtle, beginning to think he's a myth.

Following the service we noted after a week or so that the pack would only charge to 15 bars of 16. At this time we received delivery of a second hand Volt which has taken over my commute, even better as I can perform a level 1 recharge with that where the Teapot couldn't owing to Australian versions requiring a 15 amp plug socket.

The following week my wife told me the Teapot lost another bar. I recharged it again after a few days and got 15 bars so I told her that it was likely just natural degradation. Sure enough the Teapot proved me wrong and lost the bar again on the next charge. A little unhappy with this I determined that I would contact Mitsubishi with the issue led to one more bar going.

A week later, sure enough our pack was down to 13 bars. This is over a 20% loss in 2.5 years so I booked in for an investigation, explained the situation and left the Teapot with the dealership.

At first I was a little concerned as they reported again that they couldn't get a battery report out owing to the same issue previously reported. Also they reckoned they needed my charger as the one at the dealer only recharges PHEVs. I explained that they are the same pack and have interchangeable chargers. The guy insisted they had tried and the socket was different.

I explained that the ChaDeMo port was probably what they were looking at and the try the other side of the car. They still requested may charger to confirm it wasn't the issue. So I delivered that the next day.

After a day or so I was contacted and they confirmed after balancing and trying multiple chargers that the car had a reduced capacity. They had been on to Mitsubishi support as these cars haven't been sold since 2012/3 here in Australia, so Mitsubishi had to dig up a diagnostic flowchart and send it through to them.

A day later I got another call to say they had the flowchart, had followed the diagnostic steps and determined that as the pack could not charge to more than 75% a new traction pack was required.

The caller went on to explain there was a pack in Sydney that was now ordered and on its way and that next week sometime the Teapot would be the recipient of a brand new traction pack worth AU$10k under warranty.

No arguments, no weaselling out or asking me to cover any part of the cost of installation. I was offered my car back in the meantime but I said just send her back when she's fixed, which they were happy to do.

Will let you know how we go. Our expected range on the guessometer has been at 82km, I can't wait to see what she'll do on a new pack...

 

[JoeS]

WyVern, great to hear from you! Your battery pack exhibited the classic symptoms of a cell (or more) gone bad. CaniOn would have shown that for you. Delighted that Mitsubishi is taking good care of you and trust your new pack will serve you in good stead.

BTW, was that black i-MiEV yours that I saw in Brisbane CBD last October?
http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=24711#p24711

Love your car name Teapot

 

[WyVernator]

The Teapot gets its name from the license plate (154 TEA).
Funny part is that as Poms we constantly have a cuppa on the go so the missus and kids loved it, couldn't have selected a more fitting plate. First time we ever bothered naming a car, the iMiev has so much more character.

She's blue, not black so that must have been someone else you saw in Brissy.

Our Volt is black, our son named her Betty after the Ram Jam song Black Betty, his favourite.

 

[oilerlord]

This is over a 20% loss in 2.5 years so I booked in for an investigation, explained the situation and left the Teapot with the dealership.

A day later I got another call to say they had the flowchart, had followed the diagnostic steps and determined that as the pack could not charge to more than 75% a new traction pack was required. Teapot would be the recipient of a brand new traction pack worth AU$10k under warranty.

Nice to hear that Mitsubishi continues to make owner's happy.

I'm interested to read Mitsubishi's official warranty statement regarding the main traction battery in terms of what is considered normal wear & tear, what is covered under warranty, what isn't, and what is deemed as abuse (hot or cold storage, using the car's battery as a home UPS, etc). I spend a few minutes on the Google machine but couldn't find it. if anyone has that information, I'd appreciate it.

 

[WyVernator]

This is actually part of the reason I was happy they didn't try to get out of it. It appears the warranty differs depending on the market. There is a post on the http://www.aeva.asn.au forum regarding an iMiev that suffered reduced range and the owner I believe ended up shelling out as Mitsubishi determined there was no manufacturing fault.

That post alluded to a warranty that states that the battery is covered for 5 years/100,000km (62,000 miles) but only states "guidance" that a battery should have 80% capacity after 5 years. This is for the Australian market, whereas I understand the US warranty to cover a longer distance for more years. My understanding is that this is due to the greater competition among manufacturers, here only Nissan and Mitsubishi originally imported and sold pure EVs until around 2012/3 after which they were just selling old stock.

 

[oilerlord]

On another point, once I do buy an EV; I'm not sure if there's an advantage to taking great care in maintaining the battery. The guy that merely keeps their car plugged in all the time and runs it down to zero on a regular basis is no doubt causing more harm to the battery than the person that does their utmost to keep the SOC between 20%-80%. That could be a nice guy finishes last scenario as the first owner may receive a new battery under warranty while the other owner just ends up with a degraded battery that falls within the "normal wear & tear" guideline.

 

[Phximiev]

We fill it up just about every night, unless its already full or close to it, and run it as needed. If I tried to charge to a particular percent, my wife would run me out of the house. I also believe from the remarks of the techs at Mark Mitsubishi, that our approach is what Mitsubishi expects of iMiev 'consumers'. We have a new pack with a 10-year warranty and just expect it to last or be covered.

 

[PV1]

On another point, once I do buy an EV; I'm not sure if there's an advantage to taking great care in maintaining the battery. The guy that merely keeps their car plugged in all the time and runs it down to zero on a regular basis is no doubt causing more harm to the battery than the person that does their utmost to keep the SOC between 20%-80%. That could be a nice guy finishes last scenario as the first owner may receive a new battery under warranty while the other owner just ends up with a degraded battery that falls within the "normal wear & tear" guideline.

From what I've seen, the i-MiEV is pretty conservative on the available SoC range of the pack (compare the i-MiEV's 100% SoC cell voltage of 4.105 to the nominal 4.2 volts max, or the 4.3-4.4 volts laptops charge to). That, combined with the insane cycle life count quoted on the white papers for the LEV50n cells, I think the batteries will last a long time for both usage scenarios. Now, that's not to say that fully charging the pack all the time doesn't cause more harm, but what will still kill these batteries fast is leaving them fully charged for a long period of time (more than a couple of days), especially at higher temperatures. For when the car is parked, at least follow the simple guideline of not fully charging the car or leaving it plugged in while parked when it won't be used for a few days (I charge it the night before I plan to use it).

So far, the only way to get a replacement pack is if the pack refuses to charge to 16 bars. This condition is really only caused by one or more cells not reaching the charged voltage while others do. The charge is limited by the cell(s) with the highest voltage. Once a cell hits 4.105-4.11 volts, the car starts tapering current to keep the voltage from rising. When the current gets to a low point, the car stops charging, and whatever the SoC is, that is what is shown on the dash, represented by the bars on the charge gauge. The normal capacity loss that occurs over a lithium ion battery's life doesn't get represented by this behavior. Instead, the car may start shutting down before the SoC reaches 0%. This is because all the cells in the pack charge normally, and 100% is corresponding to the 4.105 volts per cell, across all cells. But, capacity loss means that the cells discharge faster than the car is expecting, so the pack hits its low voltage cutoff before the calculated SoC reaches 0%. It seems that after 3 years, the car does a re-calibration to align with capacity loss.

So, a degraded pack wouldn't be covered under warranty as the car would charge and discharge normally. Mitsubishi replaces packs when they won't charge to 16 bars on the dash, and so far this has only been caused by some defect or cell failure.

Of course, who's to say that there won't be after-market battery re-pack options available down the road? Right now, the best way to get extra cells is to buy a wrecked i-MiEV/iOn/C-Zero, or even buy a used car for less than $10,000 USD and take the cells from it (a new pack from Mitsubishi is $12,000+ USD).

 

[WyVernator]

Just a quick update, received a call on Thursday (now Saturday) to say the Teapot is booked in for her new pack to be fitted next Thursday (31 Mar). Hopefully not setting me up for an April fool

 

[WyVernator]

Another update. Received a call to say the safety gear at the dealership had perished owing to lack of use! The rep reckons the mechanics are all champing at the bit to perform the work as none of them have seen it done before. Nice to be novelty but doesn't fill me with confidence!

Pack install now due next week.

 

[kiev]

Either in the manual or else somebody posted where the safety gear is shipped in the crate with the pack, then when the job is done they sent the old pack and gear back in the box--since it's a seldom-performed operation and no need to spend money on expensive HV safety gear, re-use the crate, etc.

 

[WyVernator]

Apparently as this dealership was an iMiev centre (not all were certified) they had their own gear. Obviously it didn't get any use, which is both a good and a bad thing...

 

[WyVernator]

Ok, so all done. Got a call from the dealership after another delay (some o-rings missing from the box the pack comes in, these had to be shipped from Japan). Finally got the car back on 27 April, so not a short wait, but pleased to report all is well and range has improved noticeably.

 

[Mart]

Glad to hear you got the car back, and repairs were covered under warranty. Somewhat disturbing to hear that the problems began after "routine servicing" at the dealership responsible for the repairs. My trust in car dealerships ran out years ago.

 

[WyVernator]

In fairness I doubt the issue was directly caused by them, the range had been reducing prior, rather their unfamiliarity with diagnosing the issue meant I had to await the failure before I could present them with something concrete. It's a risk early adopters take, especially in a country that has little interest in EVs.