[SOLVED] Critical problem - battery not charging - please help! (with reward)

[amar]

(Citroen C-zero 2012)

Hi. I've piggyback'd a fuse in the fusebox for a constant voltage in order to make an aftermarket radio work(see my earlier posts). However, now - the vehicle does not want to charge (neither shucko nor type 2). All mini fuses are checked ok continuity, both the inside fusebox and the box close to the auxiliary battery. I have not checked relays.

When plugging the charging cable - the car does not recognize it (red charger symbol on the dash does not come on, neither does the battery fan)

After my last normal charge, some problems have surfaced that I think is related to all this. First, dome light (Courtesy lamp). The Courtesy lamp fuse is ok (checked the fuse visually, continuity with a multimeter). It does not have any voltage. The bulb is not broken (tested with multimeter). There are three modes (ON, DOOR and OFF). When ON and tested the + and - directly from the dome, it shows 0 volts.

The door locking system has also been disconnected. Fuse is ok, checked for continuity - however, still shows 0 volts when checking the 15A fuse (multimeter probes on the fuses)

Thirdly, when I put the ignition on - I can from my charging app see that the car is "charging" at 0,1kw (normal is 3,3kw). So I checked to see if the 10A On-board charger fuse gave any voltage. It did not. (see https://fuse-box.info/citroen/citroen-c-zero-2010-2018-fuses)

I think that these problems are linked - and that some of the fuses inside does not get any current at all, and that some of them is neccesary in order to charge the battery.

My hypothesis is that theres a main fuse thats responsible for sending current to all the mini fuses underneath the steering wheel. However, I do not have any knowledge about how to move forward. I bought a new 12v auxiliary battery (thinking that the previous was faulty, which it was not).

Because of the urgency to get it fixed as soon as possible, I will pay for help - as this is the only car I have.

 

[kiev]

Which fuse did you attach to get power for the radio?

That fuse box looking thing under the dash is the ETACS-ECU. It is much more than a fuse box and has some smarts inside to shutdown in the event of an unexpected or out of range current draw on one of the circuits. It also has some relays.

There is likely a fuse/relay under the hood that is the supply source for the ETACS. Possibly the fuse has blown, or the source relay is not being commanded by the EV-ECU.

Unfortunately there is not much history of a failure such as yours, you are breaking new ground so to speak. (no pun intended)

Follow the wiring diagrams in the FSM from the battery to the fuse to which you attached, maybe the fault can be found there, or follow the path from the battery to the ETACS.

Best wishes and good luck to ya.

 

[amar]

Which fuse did you attach to get power for the radio?

That fuse box looking thing under the dash is the ETACS-ECU. It is much more than a fuse box and has some smarts inside to shutdown in the event of an unexpected or out of range current draw on one of the circuits. It also has some relays.

There is likely a fuse/relay under the hood that is the supply source for the ETACS. Possibly the fuse has blown, or the source relay is not being commanded by the EV-ECU.

Unfortunately there is not much history of a failure such as yours, you are breaking new ground so to speak. (no pun intended)

Follow the wiring diagrams in the FSM from the battery to the fuse to which you attached, maybe the fault can be found there, or follow the path from the battery to the ETACS.

Best wishes and good luck to ya.

Thank you for your reply. That is sad news, however - I am not giving up on efforts yet.
I checked for continuity with a multimeter when key was off - and therefore, made a wire for the radio from the "Door locking." 15A fuse with a piggyback fuse. Then the 10amp fuse on the piggyback blew overnight I think, (the 15A however stayed intact. After that, the courtacy lamp have no voltage, the door locking system stopped working, and most importantly, the car wont charge.

Could you please help me rule out some basic things? Help me locate main fuses/relays that made all this mess? You will of course be compensated for your time

The factory service manual can be found here: http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/i-miev/online/Service_Manual/2012/index_M1.htm

 

[amar]

Which fuse did you attach to get power for the radio?

That fuse box looking thing under the dash is the ETACS-ECU. It is much more than a fuse box and has some smarts inside to shutdown in the event of an unexpected or out of range current draw on one of the circuits. It also has some relays.

There is likely a fuse/relay under the hood that is the supply source for the ETACS. Possibly the fuse has blown, or the source relay is not being commanded by the EV-ECU.

Unfortunately there is not much history of a failure such as yours, you are breaking new ground so to speak. (no pun intended)

Follow the wiring diagrams in the FSM from the battery to the fuse to which you attached, maybe the fault can be found there, or follow the path from the battery to the ETACS.

Best wishes and good luck to ya.

Do you think its a good start to buy a relay tester kit and test all the relays in the hood and underneath the steering wheel?

 

[kiev]

A good start would be to check all the fuses in all (3) fuse boxes plus the fuses in the positive battery terminal. Probably want to disconnect the negative battery terminal before doing this, but some fuses can be checked in-place if using the voltmeter continuity beeper and thin sharp probe tips. If no blown fuses are found then isolate the broken circuit and investigate any relays in that path.

 

[amar]

I checked the fuses on the positive therminal today, they looked okay.

Thanks for the heads up on disconnecting the negative therminal before continuity testing. I will test all the fuses tomorrow to confirm they are all in tact.
Can you elaborate the 3 fusebox part? Is there a third one, or are you maybe referring to the small box with 4 relays (one of them has a charging symbol).

I really appericiate your help and expertise. I know that I’m taking up your time, so I’ll say it again!

Please keep checking this post as I see myself being active the next days. Also, can I compensate you for your time in any way?

 

[amar]

A good start would be to check all the fuses in all (3) fuse boxes plus the fuses in the positive battery terminal. Probably want to disconnect the negative battery terminal before doing this, but some fuses can be checked in-place if using the voltmeter continuity beeper and thin sharp probe tips. If no blown fuses are found then isolate the broken circuit and investigate any relays in that path.

Hi! I’ve tested all fuses and visible relays on all fuseboxes - nothing seems to be off. Though, I did not find the «passenger side fuse».
(EDIT: actually, there is thee relays on the right hand side of the ECTAC-ECU that has not been checked yet, missed by my)

The 12volt battery was charging on «ready» even after all this happend. Confirmed with multimeter - aux battery showed 14.5 volts.

Should I nevertheless check the DC-DC converter? I took both front seats out and are planning to start tomorrow if theres nothing I could chek first.

 

[kiev]

Since you seemed to have no power in the ETACs area, then that would seem like an important place to start looking, especially since that is where you added the fuse and may have caused the fault.

So unless you measure the current, then i'm not sure that you have proved that the DCC is working considering you have a lithium battery that can easily hold higher voltage than a lead acid.

You haven't shown any data for OCV nor a loaded voltage to know how well it is holding under load.

Why remove the front seats? Now you likely have to deal with DTCs and reset of the airbag system, which requires a MUT tool at the dealers.

The easiest thing might be to find a used OBC/DCC unit and just swap it out completely.

i would also recommend to remove all wiring mods and put a lead acid battery back in. Try to get the car back running and charging as normal, then investigate how to make wiring mods.

 

[amar]

Since you seemed to have no power in the ETACs area, then that would seem like an important place to start looking, especially since that is where you added the fuse and may have caused the fault.

So unless you measure the current, then i'm not sure that you have proved that the DCC is working considering you have a lithium battery that can easily hold higher voltage than a lead acid.

You haven't shown any data for OCV nor a loaded voltage to know how well it is holding under load.

Why remove the front seats? Now you likely have to deal with DTCs and reset of the airbag system, which requires a MUT tool at the dealers.

The easiest thing might be to find a used OBC/DCC unit and just swap it out completely.

i would also recommend to remove all wiring mods and put a lead acid battery back in. Try to get the car back running and charging as normal, then investigate how to make wiring mods.

Thanks for your reply. First of all, I've tried to swap out the auxiliary battery with a brand new one - without solving the problem. Furthermore, when I test the current battery with multimeter VDC I get a reading of 12.4V. When I crank the key and get the car in "READY", the aux battery voltage turns up to 14.5V - thats what I meant with the aux battery "charging". Is this a sign of a working DC-DC converter?

I saw a video here on the forum about the DC-DC converter - they removed a front seat (I failed and removed both) - but the cause is to remove the orange plug that connects the main battery to all systems, so when I open the actual DC-DC converter there is less risk of electric shock.

About the possible airbag lamps, thats a bummer - however, that wont be such a big problem as the biggest one is the main battery not charging.

Lastly, the plan for today is to check the remaining relays attached on the ETAC-ECU. If they all work - I've checked all fuses (mini fuses and larger fusess) + all relays on all three fuseboxes. If that's the case, I probably will open up the DC-DC to check if the fuse is gone, or if theres a sign of melted capasitor(s).

Does this sound reasonable?

Again, thank you very much for your help and guidance!

 

[kiev]

okay thanks for explaining your test. From that it appears that the DC Converter is working fine to charge the aux battery when in READY. Makes sense about the front seats, that's the correct procedure when dealing with HV.

So your main issue is that the OBC is not working to charge the Main Pack, the EV battery, when you plug in the EVSE.

If Pack charging were working or would occur, then your DCC would likely work also, since it works in READY.

Did you ever try using an OBDII scan tool or dongle with a phone app to read the Trouble Codes?

The OBDII port has an always hot 12V pin that may be supplied thru the ETACS, but i've never traced it out, so just guessing about the source. Probably not a good idea to try to add any other loads to that wire.

There is a troubleshooting thread for the OBC, take a look at page 1 for lots of pictures and information about the On-Board Charger problems and repairs.

ps. 12.4V for a new aux battery is too low. That battery needs to be charged with an external charger before it gets damaged from being held too low.

 

[amar]

okay thanks for explaining your test. From that it appears that the DC Converter is working fine to charge the aux battery when in READY. Makes sense about the front seats, that's the correct procedure when dealing with HV.

So your main issue is that the OBC is not working to charge the Main Pack, the EV battery, when you plug in the EVSE.

If Pack charging were working or would occur, then your DCC would likely work also, since it works in READY.

Did you ever try using an OBDII scan tool or dongle with a phone app to read the Trouble Codes?

The OBDII port has an always hot 12V pin that may be supplied thru the ETACS, but i've never traced it out, so just guessing about the source. Probably not a good idea to try to add any other loads to that wire.

There is a troubleshooting thread for the OBC, take a look at page 1 for lots of pictures and information about the On-Board Charger problems and repairs.

ps. 12.4V for a new aux battery is too low. That battery needs to be charged with an external charger before it gets damaged from being held too low.

You're right - I should probably use a scan tool to begin with before dismantling and checking the DC-DC converter, as it possibly can be the OBC that has issues. I took the top screws out of the DCDC today, however - I did not manage to get the head out of the unit, as it seems like its glued there really well.

I will read up on OBC symptoms etc.

Do you have any suggestions for which scan tool to go for? I got recommended "iCarsoft CR Pro - Multibrand - All car manufacturers" by a Norwegian diagnosis online store. (https://diagnosebutikken.no/produkt/icarsoft/icarsoft-cr-pro-multibrand-alle-bilmerker?gclid=CjwKCAiA9aKQBhBREiwAyGP5lfPHlF1mP6AllawVF4kP0dqGuMi9eNK0RqdxUl2Wx_pfG2-HRcWKvxoCtd8QAvD_BwE)

I'll order one as soon as you reply.
And by the way, can I possibly "buy" you a coffee or something? Really appericiate you still hanging in tight with your answers!

 

[kiev]

Until you read the DTCs you have no idea about what is the problem or where to look. Just guessing gets expensive.

i use an OBDLink LX dongle from Scantool (beware of counterfeits, buy from them) along with the CanIon android app for monitoring cell voltages to check the pack.

i use an iCarSoft 909 to check DTCs and get datastreams of select CAN data. It is the wired version so no phone app needed. But mine is older and i would guess there have been newer and better versions such as the Pro--i just have no experience with any others. There may be some threads on this forum which discuss all the options.

If the OBC is not working, then the DCDC Converter (DCC) will not either because they share the same connection to the Pack thru the OBC-to-MCU harness.

The OBC thread is here: http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4079
Page 1 has most of the information, pictures and links.

 

[GregFordyce]

My understanding is that the interior light and central locking stopped working at the same time the car stopped charging. I would suggest finding the fault with the central locking and the interior light first as that may also fix your charging issue. It's possible that they all share a common 12 volt supply from the 12v battery. If you are going to look at the OBC first thing to check is the 12v power to this unit, consult wiring diagram to identify the relevant wires.

 

[amar]

My understanding is that the interior light and central locking stopped working at the same time the car stopped charging. I would suggest finding the fault with the central locking and the interior light first as that may also fix your charging issue. It's possible that they all share a common 12 volt supply from the 12v battery. If you are going to look at the OBC first thing to check is the 12v power to this unit, consult wiring diagram to identify the relevant wires.

That was initially the plan - and I still do want to knock those two problems out of the world before anything - as I think this is somehow connected.. However, I'm kinda stuck at the moment. Fuses and relays on the ETAC-ECU are checked ok, same with the fuses and relays under the hood.

I am not the best one on circuit reading sadly. Do you have any suggestions?

 

[Don]

My understanding is that the interior light and central locking stopped working at the same time the car stopped charging. I would suggest finding the fault with the central locking and the interior light first as that may also fix your charging issue. It's possible that they all share a common 12 volt supply from the 12v battery. If you are going to look at the OBC first thing to check is the 12v power to this unit, consult wiring diagram to identify the relevant wires.

. . . . and, as I understand it, this whole chain of problems was discovered right after he began making modifications while trying to install an aftermarket stereo. While many problems develop mon their own, without any 'help' from anyone messing with anything electrical, but when something quits working immediately after you've been making changes to associated circuitry, it's usually in your best interests to go back and look to see if something you did maybe caused the current problem. Often, that makes troubleshooting lots quicker and simpler because it gives you a logical place to start. It's entirely possible the OP, not knowing exactly what he was messing with, caused all of this . . . . especially since everything was working fine before he began the stereo install

 

[GregFordyce]

I am not the best one on circuit reading sadly. Do you have any suggestions?

Start with the "room lamp" circuit diagram. Power is at the top and earth/ground is at the bottom. Also at the front of the manual is a 'how to read circuit diagrams' that should help you. Check the power sources (fuses and fusible links) coming in at the top of the diagram. You need a volt meter to check for voltage, however I prefer to use a 12v test light, simpler and you won't get fooled by 'fake' voltage readings that you can sometimes get with a voltmeter.

 

[amar]

Hello everyone! First of all, thank you all for sticking with me on the post.

I’ve recently bought an iCarsoft CR Pro diagnostics tool and managed to obtain fault codes from the car.

I have tried to do a little research on the code descriptions on MMC service manual - however, things are getting a bit complicated and I hope some of you can cast a light on the path forward.

Here are the codes with explanations from the tool:

U1113 (status: Active) «MiEV Remote CAN T/o /Not equip»

P1B1E (status: Stored) «ETACS message lost (BMU)»

P1B1C (status: Stored) «ETACS message lost (MCU)»

P1B1F (status: Stored) «Meter message lost (BMU)»

P1B1F (status: Stored) «Meter message lost (MCU)»

P1A12 (status: Stored) «OBC abnormal stop»

U1116 (status: Active) «KOS CAN timeout/Not equipped»

U1111 (status: Active) «Display CAN timeout/Not equipped»

B1765 (status: Active) «ECU fuse»

U1109 (status: Stored) «ETACS CAN timeout/Not equipped»

U1108 (status: Stored) «Meter CAN timeout/Not equipped»

This being said; I will try to erase all the codes later today and see what happens. Did not have time for anything beyond quickly using the tool to get the codes.

 

[GregFordyce]

U1113 (status: Active) «MiEV Remote CAN T/o /Not equip»

Ignore this fault.

B1765 (status: Active) «ECU fuse»

Investigate this fault first.

This being said; I will try to erase all the codes later today and see what happens. Did not have time for anything beyond quickly using the tool to get the codes.

Good plan, see what faults come back.

 

[amar]

U1113 (status: Active) «MiEV Remote CAN T/o /Not equip»

Ignore this fault.

B1765 (status: Active) «ECU fuse»

Investigate this fault first.

This being said; I will try to erase all the codes later today and see what happens. Did not have time for anything beyond quickly using the tool to get the codes.

Good plan, see what faults come back.

Thanks for the advice. Will do. After browsing through the service manual I found that three of the codes are related to the ECU and CAN communication.



When clicking the arrow regarding the ECU fuse - something interesting happend. They want fuse 25 and 26 checked - but these are for Audio and Radio. I do remember I had to press hard on them - and got a weird feeling about it that time. But how are these related?

 

[amar]

I tried to clear all codes, and also tickle no. 25 and 26 - unfortunately, with no progress.

I want to explain some further symptoms as I think it will be easier to diagnose. It does not seem like the car has power on "important" parts when the key is off.
For example
1. tailgate wont open when key is off, even though the car is unlocked
2. when I have open door(s), the red (open door) light on the instrument panel does not light up
3. room light does not illuminate, neither when "ON", "DOOR" (when key is off)
4. charging icon on the instrument panel does not illuminate when cable is plugged in
5. when I lock the door on driver side - the central locking system doesnt activate (only the driver door locks). When key is on ACC/READY, central lock works when locking from the inside and all doors lock at the same time

When key is on ACC/READY, central locking from the inside works, tailgate button works, charging cable light illuminates, and door open light and beeping exist.

And also, it seems like settings on the instrument panel arent saved. The right sircle display (that shows remaining km of range) keeps going back to driven km after taking the key out. It does in other words not save the setting "remaining km" - but keeps going back to driven km