RBS, ! , turtle error. What was your cause and fix?

[obrother]

I want to start a thread for everyone to put the cause and fix for their imiev problems.

I just had my car towed to the dealer. It was my fourth trip to/from work on a charge. It was early morning after a hard rain and rain stopped some hours before, the roads were still wet but not soaked and it was near 100% humidity and around 24 deg C. I was getting off the highway when I lost power. I got the rbs, exclamation, turtle, and battery symbols. I drove car off to the side turned it off and on and made it to work until I was backing up into my parking space and it happened again. I needed a charge to get home and tried all sorts of things to get it to charge but it wouldn't. It would try and then I would get an error. After work I tried unhooking the battery twice to maybe reset the error but nothing changed. Car will be looked at on Monday. I'm not sure buying this used imiev was a good idea now. What happens when warranty runs out? Getting a MUT3 tool may be essential in the future. Roadside assistance had expired but because this is a 'warrantable' failure mitsubishi will tow your car to a certified imiev dealer.

Its a 2012 chademo base model with 41500kms. Traction battery is still strong (canion/obdlink)

 

[kiev]

What was the fuel gauge showing--how many bars?

Have you ever done a calibration charge since you've had it?

i've had the error codes do that to me several times on my 2012 during humid or hot weather conditions--i'll let it cool or set 5 minutes and retry, it has never left me stranded, knock wood.

If your 2012 still has the original 12V battery then that could be weak or worn out after 4 or 5 years old, and that could cause the issue also. The lead acid battery requires annual maintenance.

 

[obrother]

What was the fuel gauge showing--how many bars?

Have you ever done a calibration charge since you've had it?

i've had the error codes do that to me several times on my 2012 during humid or hot weather conditions--i'll let it cool or set 5 minutes and retry, it has never left me stranded, knock wood.

If your 2012 still has the original 12V battery then that could be weak or worn out after 4 or 5 years old, and that could cause the issue also. The lead acid battery requires annual maintenance.

This is the first time to a dealer with it for me. I had 20km range left... I think 4 bars. The only calibration I have done is from last bar flashing 'fuel' to full charge at home on 7amp charge... when I almost ran out the traction battery driving home from where I bought the car used. No idea about 12v battery... I was able to run all accessories while waiting for the tow truck... only a/c compressor would not stay on... it would run for a second and shut off...I could feel the cool air and the felt the compressor shake when computer shut it down. I operated the windows, fan, radio and driving lights with no problem. I was able to drive the car in limp mode to make it easier for the tow truck to load it on the flatbed. I disconnected the 12v battery twice and it sparked each time i reconnected it. I hope it is just the 12v battery. Anything major might remove any confidence I have in the reliability of the car. If it is the 12v should everyone change theirs at a certain point before it fails and leaves them stranded? And what would that point be?

 

[kiev]

Sure enough--didn't touch wood and i jinxed myself...

Went across town for lunch today (mid 90's temperature) and sure enough it errored out on me when trying to start up to get home. i tried a couple of quick cycles and no luck, so i just turtled on down the road looking for a shady spot to pull over and let it cool and figure out what to do.

Just so happens that within less than a minute, a flat bed tow truck came rolling up behind me and offered to carry me home. Turns out he recognized the little electric car because he had recently been on a long haul in the past month from Orlando carrying a dozen of these little mievs to a car dealer in Nashville. Now how is that for karma...

i would guess that there is another round of off-lease cars soon to be hitting the market--commence to jigglin y'all

 

[obrother]

kiev...Welcome to the broke down and got towed club!!!

 

[kiev]

So i made some battery measurements after i got home--of course it cranked right up to READY after getting off the flat-bed.

READY mode, battery 14.38
turned key off, battery reading 12.84
turned key to ON, batt 12.20

This much sag indicates the battery is weak or worn out. It's at least 5 years old so i think it has given good service.

It will crank to READY, but the car soon displays the RBS, !, and turtle also. Able to drive around to a nearby grocery store and back, even got up to 40 mph, but when parked the ready went off and the red battery symbol came on. So i'll replace the 12V and see what happens after that...

 

[JoeS]

I still have my doubts as I still contend (as discussed on previous different threads) that, once the car is in READY with no errors, the dc-dc converter keeps the 12v battery voltage within acceptable limits even if the 12v battery is extremely weak. kiev, in the above example, sure, the 12v battery sags a bit and is may be a bit weak depending on what accessories are running if the measurement was made right at the battery, but once in READY there is no reason for any subsequent voltage drop - thus negating this as a cause of the errors appearing while driving.

...This much sag indicates the battery is weak or worn out. It's at least 5 years old so i think it has given good service....

Um, maybe not...I just ran out to the garage and here are my 12v battery readings right at the battery (I have a fused Anderson connector on each car's battery), and I didn't bother with the READY voltage - these are all original batteries in early 2012 cars:

Mitti
OFF ==> 12.96v (about an hour since it was last run)
ON ==> 12.25v (radio, GPS, dashcam, low fan ON)

Moto
OFF ==> 12.69v (about 1/2-hour since it was last run)
ON ==> 12.02v (radio, GPS, low fan ON)

Mitsi
OFF ==> 12.76v (about 20 hours since it was last run)
ON ==> 12.20v (radio, GPS, low fan ON)

 

[PV1]

If you use the EVBatMon app, you can use IGCT voltage to monitor 12v voltage.

I remember reading about the old RAV4-EVs and all kinds of weird issues that were all traced back to a bad 12 volt battery. Didn't someone on here try disconnecting the 12 volt battery while READY and get the same error lights?

 

[kiev]

Howdy Joe, i'm willing to be wrong about all that, just trying to make sense of readings, etc.

i measured the specific gravity at 1.200, then corrected for temperature as 1.207. The battery voltage was 12.89...? Seems something is not in line.

i don't have a 130 Amp load device but i may take it to the corner autoshack and let them test it.

i put it under 6A load and it dropped to 11.7.

Our cars don't put the high cranking amp loads on the battery so they may last longer than typical starter batteries.

When in READY, or when parked on the EVSE, the battery voltage measured 14.4

 

[Don]

I'm a firm believer that a weak battery causes all sorts of errors - The only ones I've ever experienced. Replaced the battery and all has been normal ever since

Don

 

[kiev]

i took the battery in to the autoparts and they hooked up their electrickery tester, and the fellow said it was good on volts, but not so much on amps--that it needed a charge...? Well if the voltage is somehow high then how can it charge without boiling over.

So i just bought a new one, type 151R or 51R is the exact size to fit, it just has a flat bar and not the screw caps for adding water, $135 at Advance or O'Reilly. Neverstart Gold Ultra, 370 CCA!

i think the date code was july 2010, 071092, so it may have only been in service since Jan 2012, but it was over 6 years old. It may be that the few times i had the errors before in the past year were just due to weak 12V battery and something acting up when it was hot weather?

Kiev seems to be running normal, no more errors.

Joe better get ready to buy 3 new batteries, you are on your last legs with those--they don't last forever...

 

[obrother]

Dealer says they cleared all the codes, test drove and charged the car. I told them to check the 12v battery but it looks like they didn't. They say they couldn't find the problem and that I should drive it and monitor it. I will pick up the car tomorrow. So $120 Canadian plus tax to get the car driving until they next time. They are charging me for the diagnostic. They didn't say anything about the 12v battery... I will be buying a new one tomorrow on the way home from picking up my car at the dealer. I remember seeing lots of corrosion on the positive terminal. It looks like everyone that has a 2012 or 13 should be looking at changing their battery before they need to get towed. We should get a sticky post on here that warns everyone to do so. I'm also thinking seriously about getting a mut 3 or maybe an i909 to at least clear the codes to get the car going the next time I have a problem.

 

[obrother]

Ok I think I've got it for sure now.... Once in a while I was getting an abs warning when I started the car. I turned the car off and on and it would go away. I read the owners' manual and it says abs warning will come on when the battery voltage is low. So that's it. That should be an early warning to everybody. It's not obvious in the owners manual because it says it can happen after using booster cables.It's in the section about boosting. It didn't say it can happen while driving!!! So we can't assume that if car turns on that the battery is ok...even if you get a ready light with no codes you can still have a problem if the battery is weak.

 

[JoeS]

...So i just bought a new one,.... Neverstart Gold Ultra...

:lol: :lol:

Surprised that for that price you didn't get an AGM to obviate any need to check/add water.

 

[kiev]

Hey obrother, is your car on the vin list for needing the recall of the motor control unit--or already had it done? Mine is on the list but it hasn't been done.

Maybe i spoke too soon--i got the errors again this afternoon. i drove about 10 miles then parked on a slope in 95F temperature, on hot asphalt, and turned it off for about 5-10 minutes. Then went to start and got the errors. Cycled the key switch about 3 times over several minutes, and then it stayed in READY with no errors and i drove 25 miles without a hitch...kind of a pain when you have passengers and fighting rush hour traffic too.


@Joe
i wasn't sure that AGM would like being held at 14.4 by the dc converter all the time when driving or connected to EVSE.

"Maintenance Free" is just marketing bs--in real life there is no such thing in anything that matters. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance...

more edits:
i found this statement in the manual concerning troubleshooting,
"a diagnosis code associated with another system may be set when the electric motor switch is turned ON with connector(s) disconnected."

If there were something broken, then the error and codes would persist. But from the intermittent nature of this problem it sure seems likely a connector issue related to high ambient temperatures.

There is a section on how to cope with intermittent malfunctions that involves wiggling connectors and harnesses--the problem is how do you know if you found it.

Not sure that a MUT would help in this case unless it were connected at the time of the intermittent event.

edits:
Piev just sent me a note about checking the shift lever switch. That is a good candidate since it is located outside near the heat-producing elements down under the back of the car, so dirt and temperature could be factors with a sealed plastic switch...

 

[obrother]

kiev,

No we didn't get the mcu/motor control unit recall here yet. I could be wrong but my car hasn't had it. My dealer says my car didn't have it and there is no outstanding recall for my car. I put a 151r battery in today and am keeping my finger crossed (in canada just look for a battery for a 2010 honda fit). Under abs in the owners' manual it does say that a abs warning does mean there is a low 12v battery voltage. I ordered the icarsoft i909 diagnostic tool and will provide a review in a couple of weeks when it arrives. It's tool early to tell if the problem is gone for sure... I will have to wait and see.

 

[kiev]

Hey obro' i hope it works out good for you. i'm thinking maybe the recall was only for early 2012's.

So far so good for me, but the weather has been mild and cooler, so i'm not surprised.

If it starts acting up again i will be checking the gear position sensor on the gearbox, maybe even swap it out.

 

[obrother]

I just got my i909 scan tool. It does work with the imiev for sure. I don't have an error codes right now so can't confirm but it should clear them. There are lots of screens to go through... the one interesting one which applies to my 12v battery problem I had in this thread... the i909 shows you live voltage of the 12v battery...key off...key on and ready...you can see the voltage drop live.

 

[kiev]

Okay, so just make your car flip the errors again and you can read the code--oh, but now it won't since you have a new battery and the code reader :lol:

Knock wood no problems here, and i even did another 70-mile day this week. Temperatures in mid-90's so it's plenty hot if that is a trigger...

 

[kiev]

i thought it was all behind me with the new battery, but i got it again.

Last week i got home and opened the trunk to unload, then went inside to put groceries away, got distracted and didn't get back out for at least 30 minutes. Went to start up and move to the evse spot and got the RBS and the ! HV errors plus turtle. Tried cycling restart a couple of times, same result, so just drove it over and plugged in to charge--and then it killed the charge signal and shut off the EVSE. So i waited a couple hours and went back out to try again, no problem this time with charging, and car started and good to go the next morning.

i checked the 12V battery voltage at the time of the error and it was only 12.4, and this battery is only a couple of months old! Maybe it is weak or crappy even though new--seems it shouldn't have been pulled down so low by just the interior light? But they just don't make stuff as good these days, it's all about the money and doing it cheap...

i checked the pack at the time also using canion and it was all good and even, no cells out of family.

i'm going to chalk this one up to low 12v battery voltage--it seems to be the common element for causing this in my cases.