Portable CHAdeMO

[PV1]

Since the i-MiEV has yet (if ever) to be upgraded to a 6.6 KW on-board charger, I've been wondering the possibility of using a portable CHAdeMO-compatible charger to allow use of the full output of a charging station or 240 volt outlet. EMotorWerks has a (comparatively) affordable mobile quick charge solution available. Their system allows the use of single phase 240 volts main (I would imagine also 208 volt) to be able to charge CHAdeMO cars at a higher rate. The J1172 side of this unit would be pretty simple, as these kits already exist for EV conversions.

Now, to take this one step further, what about connecting two charging stations together to double power from 6.6 kW to 13.2 kW? Obviously, like the Quick220, there has to be smart circuitry to automatically pair the stations in parallel in phase or else you're tripping breakers. I know how single-phase operates, but I'd appreciate input if somebody knows a little more about 3-phase than I do. I would imagine a 3-phase panel would spread 3 consecutive single-pole breakers across all 3 phases, so two charging stations (like at a dealer) would actually split all three phases (station 1 has phase 1 & 2, and station 2 has phase 2 & 3), depending on how they land the breakers at the panel. But, then again, if a split-phase panel is used (2 of 3 phases to a panel with a neutral for single-phase loads), the two stations would act exactly like two 240 volt circuits in a house and could be rather simply paralleled.

I guess I'm asking a couple of questions.

1. Does anybody have hands-on experience with EMotorWerks products? Is it quality equipment?
2. Would an affordable, portable CHAdeMO charger be a worthwhile investment to decrease time at a level 2 charging station?
3. How can two charging stations be paralleled to double charging power of said CHAdeMO unit?

I also know a Ford Focus Electric owner working to do the same, but he also has the extra step of making his car CHAdeMO compatible.

I know I could also use a Manzanita charger and skip CHAdeMO altogether, but I'd rather not modify the high-voltage components of the i-MiEV. Plus, sticking with CHAdeMO would also allow other EVs to use this equipment.

 

[JoeS]

PV1, you've broached a number of separate issues. For the time being I'll pass on the dual-input concept. Ever since I realized that Mitsubishi did not upgrade the charger in their 2016 model I've been more-seriously looking at our options. I think that Mitsubishi failed to understand that with our small battery pack that a higher-power charger is all-the-more necessary if we're to venture out of our home radius, as CHAdeMO availability is still sporadic.

Two chargers that can do the trick are either Manzanita Micro or eMotorWerks. We could hook up directly to the high voltage - siai47 has successfully done that but, as PV1 pointed out, there are good arguments for simply having a CHAdeMO-compatible charger and not mess with the lethal high voltage.

EMotorWerks http://emotorwerks.com/products/online-store/category/listing/17-dc-charging-systems has a 12kW charger that I've been keeping an eye on. Last I checked, it seemed to still be a work-in-progress http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/10kw-60a-diy-charger-open-source-59210.html At this point in my life I would prefer the ready-made unit instead of playing with a kit. I don't know what the present status of their CHAdeMO adapter is. At the next EAA meeting (they're local here) I'll try to find out the latest as their attention was recently diverted by other projects.

Being able to have our own portable CHAdeMO charger and have it plug into either J1772 or a campground NEMA14-50 would certainly make longer-distance i-MiEV driving feasible.

 

[PV1]

It looks like the eMW Quickcharge 2500-HV is available and would be an excellent match to the i-MiEV charge curve. Together with their CHAdeMO controller and connector, a 25 kW CHAdeMO setup could be had for $3,997, way cheaper than Andromeda's Orca Mobile. Plus, unlike commercial units, this setup can use single-phase 240 volt or even be configured for DC input which would be good for running from a direct solar-charged battery bank.

 

[JoeS]

PV1 - whoa! Excluding solar, the commonly-available power sources are:
NEMA 14-50 (RV campground), 80% * 50A = 40A ==> 40A * 240V = 9.6kW
NEMA 10-30 (old dryer outlet), 80% * 30A = 24A ==> 24A * 240V = 5.8kW

Edit once: math error...

Why go for larger than their 12kW charger?

 

[PV1]

Why go for larger than their 12kW charger?

It's only an extra $100 for the same size and weight, but more than double the output. They also say that the QuickCharge unit is more suited for cars unlike the Smartcharge, which they reference for motorcycles. Not sure if there is any difference in how it charges, though. Plus, say one comes across a rare 80 amp J1772 station. They can output 16-19.2 kW. Parallel charging stations would also pass 12 kW output (thought that probably deserves its own thread).

For just an extra $100, why not go for the extra power? It'd probably run cooler being used at less than 50% capacity.

Sorry for going off on that solar tangent.

 

[kiev]

...
EMotorWerks http://emotorwerks.com/products/online-store/category/listing/17-dc-charging-systems has a 12kW charger that I've been keeping an eye on. Last I checked, it seemed to still be a work-in-progress http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/10kw-60a-diy-charger-open-source-59210.html At this point in my life I would prefer the ready-made unit instead of playing with a kit. I don't know what the present status of their CHAdeMO adapter is. At the next EAA meeting (they're local here) I'll try to find out the latest as their attention was recently diverted by other projects.
...

The open source charger started off as a noble idea, but after 2851 posts you will find many unanswered questions and unhappy campers too. i had to look very hard to find the 'open' source schematics for version 12 or so, and after reviewing them decided the design was a lot of work-in-progress and not for me.

Working with a diy team, we reverse engineered and have the schematics and source code for the 3 kW TCCH lithium chargers and they use some serious electronics to control that much power. The thought of trying to go to 10 or 12 kW for a diy charger kit is scary.

 

[Palm35]

This CHΛdeMO (or Combo CCS) portable charger is awesome !

Watch this video !
http://youtu.be/7jV02MiWrhc

And the factsheet is here

http://design-werk.ch/wp2/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/MDC22kW_E_2.pdf

The only problem is the price.
About 16000€

 

[JoeS]

This CHΛdeMO (or Combo CCS) portable charger is awesome...The only problem is the price. About 16000€

...which is why I didn't even bring it up. :roll:

 

[PV1]

That's pretty much what I have in mind, but for less money than a car. Are membership dues to the CHAdeMO group that much?

Here's how I see it, though. I'll connect pieces together to make a unit if it saves me 75% on cost.

 

[PV1]

A local Ford Focus Electric owner (the same one that added CHAdeMO and a second charger to his car) has now constructed a single phase home CHAdeMO quick charger. He asked me and my LEAF-driving friend to stop by and test it out sometime soon.

It is built out of 5 Focus Electric on-board chargers (6.6 kW each) and will charge at up to 31 kW. I will try to ask him how these are isolated.

http://www.myfocuselectric.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3189

If this setup works the way I'm thinking it does, a pair of these chargers could enable use of two public charging stations simultaneously with the i-MiEV for up to 13 kW charging rate. Two separate, isolated chargers would make that possible without a lot of interlocks and safeties in trying to parallel two stations on the AC side. Each charger is dedicated to a charging station (since nearly all public stations only handle 6.6 kW anyway) and both chargers are paralleled on the DC side. Other uses could include:

1. 40 Amp (8-9.6 kW) charging from a NEMA 14-50 outlet (RV Park).
2. 6.6 kW public charging.
3. Rapid home charging, as is the purpose of the unit linked above.
4. Possible 16-19.2 kW charging from a Tesla HPWC (not a Supercharger. Couldn't use one anyway for multiple reasons.) or Clipper Creek CS-100.
5. Road trips in non-CHAdeMO areas are now considerably faster with charging time being reduced by at least 50%.

 

[PV1]

I've started working on the design of the charger. I plan to mirror the charger built by my "Focused" friend, but with two 6.6 kW units instead of five. For power input, I want to have two J1772 ports, one for each charger. Both chargers are then paralleled on the DC side before going through the CHAdeMO connector to the car. The output of each charger is dictated by either max power of the charger or the pilot signal from the J1772 connector. For example, if I plug the unit into a pair of 16 amp charging stations, each charger will be limited to 16 amps input draw, but the total power to the car would be 32 amps, more than double the stock on-board charger. A pair of 32 amp charging stations would allow 64 total amps. If I plug into a 16 amp and a 32 amp station, total charging power is 48 amps.

With that, if I want to use this unit with a NEMA 14-50 outlet, I would need an adapter to go from NEMA 14-50 to dual J1772. I started looking at the J1772 Hydra, which takes one charging station and allows two cars to charge simultaneously, and thought about modifying it to take non-EVSE power, but then it occurred to me that I could simply build an OpenEVSE with two outputs to interface the quick charger with a standard outlet. This approach saves a lot of interlocks in trying to tie a standard outlet in with the dual J1772 ports on the charger itself. Plus, it offers the flexibility of allowing two cars to share an outlet if necessary. Each J1772 connector would be good for 20 amps output, allowing 40 amps total through the quick charger.

The current design allows for the uses listed above except #4, which is an unlikely scenario to begin with. Once I get the diagrams presentable, I'll post a Dropbox link. Ideally, the entire setup fits into a hitch-mounted cargo box.

 

[jray3]

Sounding mighty fine. I think it's quite practical to build that hardware into a road trip box rather than shoehorning it into the car where it'll be unnecessary most of the time.
So how would your setup handle HAL2? The Sun Country Highway concept has been replicated in Washington State, with its 70 amp 240V J1772 stations.
http://www.pluginncw.com/high-amperage-level-2-charging-network
Being to max out one of those bad boys sure would be nice. Might your Open EVSE have an outlet so that the dual cables could be disconnected and used as a 'dumb' splitter or J1772 extension cord? I'm guessing that you'd need a single EVSE to send the double-amped pilot signal, rather than confusing it with two signals...

 

[PV1]

At the moment, I would be limited to the output of one of the chargers (6.6 kW). Maybe I could get some help in programming an Open EVSE to double as an intelligent J1772 splitter. The Hydra is based on OpenEVSE, so it should be simple to do. Either way, I'm still limited to 13 kW (54 amps) ("still" :lol: . 54 amps blows the doors off of the stock 14 amps. )

I am glad to see 70 amp stations starting to pop up, though. Now we just need some non-Tesla cars that can take advantage of it.

I've learned from trying to install my radio, there is very little extra space in the i-MiEV. There's almost nowhere to put a pair of chargers besides in a hitch box.

 

[JoeS]

PV1, have you had a chance to peruse this related myNissanLeaf thread?

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=13349&start=670

Looks like they eventually ground to a halt...

I would start with the output, as, for example, the CHAdeMO Connector, CHAdeMO Drive Circuit, and a dc charger from eMotorWerks will set you back over $4K. Add in the input you've been discussing and...

 

[PV1]

I haven't, but I will attempt to read it this weekend. I did see here (http://www.upgrademyleaf.com/) where some people upgraded their LEAFs to charge faster than stock using Brusa chargers. I can't do this due to the fact that the i-MiEV shuts down charging if too much current is pushed into the battery. Plus, I'd still have to wrangle a second J1772 port onto the car somewhere, and like Jay said, having the unit separate from the car offers other advantages (like making it stationary at home when not doing a trip and usability with other cars). Thus, having to go the CHAdeMO route for an extra $1,500. Although, I could buy EMW's connector for much less than an official Yazaki connector.

With all the pieces and parts, including a hitch receiver and related equipment but excluding chargers (as I don't have a price yet) and the Arduino controller, I am just under $4,000. That includes two EVSEUpgrade 20 amp units (the high power Nissan units) at $650 a piece. Two OpenEVSE units are half the price and could possibly double as a HAL2 splitter (that will require some design work).

I would be satisfied to bring this in under $6,000. That all depends on where I get chargers from. A pair of wrecked LEAFs or FFEs would be a great investment, because I'd also get two battery packs, and could sell the rest of the cars as parts to have some return on my cost.

 

[PV1]

I finally had the opportunity to stop by my friend's house and try out his home quick charger. Unfortunately, it wouldn't charge the i-MiEV. The unit runs his own code and is only built up enough to work with the custom CHAdeMO interface on his car. After talking for a while, it takes quite a bit of spoofing to get the FFE chargers running, and they won't ramp up fast enough to satisfy the CHAdeMO standard or go high enough in voltage to charge a LEAF (pretty much does away with justifying using CHAdeMO). Plus, he has a borderline jet cooler to keep them from overheating (8 fans on two radiators).

So, it sounds like going with something else would be better. He recommends stacking Brusa chargers together as the one he has in the car (oh yeah, his car can also use two stations at the same time) is much easier to get going and makes a lot less heat.

Back to the drawing board.

On a side note, one of his EVSEs has a boost transformer feeding it, and we were able to figure out the max power of the i-MiEV on-board charger, which is 3,016 watts. Because the car was getting 255 volts AC, it reduced the amperage. On the other EVSE, the car was pulling more amps but only getting 236 volts.

 

[johnr]

Well there's a portable CHAdeMO charger commercially available now. This one from EVSEadapters puts out up to 20 amps which comes out to about 7200 watts. I've found I can fully charge in only about 2 hours - it almost feels like having a whole new car - it's great! Here's a photo of my car at a Chargepoint station using the charger with a J1772 adapter. On a NEMA 14-50 outlet I can charge at the full power. At these 30 amp Chargepoint stations I turn the power down a bit to avoid exceeding the station's 30 amp capacity.

 

[wmcbrine]

Link to the product johnr is talking about: https://www.evseadapters.com/en/home/136-portable-chademo-or-ccs-fast-charger.html

It's $3750. That doesn't include the J1772 adapter, which, I haven't found yet. (For just the $3750 you can hook it up to a NEMA 14-50.)

 

[mdbuilder]

That is pretty cool.

Unfortunately I 'used' my one time max $900 state EVSE rebate. But the 30% federal credit would still help cut down the cost. $2,625 (after 30% tax credit) is still a bit pricey but not totally out of the question...

 

[obrother]

That's awesome! However for me I'd more interested in the company selling it if their selection and pricing was more like this...

http://www.electway-store.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=90

The big question is... Do these chargers provide electricity 'clean' enough that they don't damage the traction battery? Some people have reported damage to their battery from the Emotorwerks DC chargers. Another question is how reliable are these chargers? For the price of thousands of dollars... will they last say... 10 years or more?

Here is an Australian thread about another portable chademo..

http://ozleaf.proboards.com/thread/754/home-portable-chademo-10kw-evse