Not an owner (yet?)

[toecheese]

Hello,

I'm slowly looking for an electric car. Would an iMiev/c-zero/iOn be a good starting point for me? Why? Why not?

What I would like:
- affordable in the long term. I understand this to mean a somewhat repairable/replaceable battery.
- safe
- space for four adults (doesn't have to be super large and comfortable)
- range in summer @85 km/h:
- either 120 km and quick charging (most chargers here still have chademo)
- or preferably 250km and no quick charging needed
- mechanical parts easily maintainable by a local workshop
- affordable in the long term: battery cells relatively easy to replace
- battery not too unhappy with occasional extreme cold (-25C)

I couldn't care less about colour, tire type, luxury, the occasional dent or scratch.

Skills and willingness to fiddle:
- basic electronics (soldering, esp32, ...)
- software (basic firmware reverse engineering, linux, ...)
- 3d printing
- NO high voltage experience, but willing to pick this up
- I wouldn't mind setting a can bridge or whatever.


What do you think? Would an iMiev/c-zero/iOn be something for me?

Looking forward to your hints!

toecheese

 

[JoeS]

I'm slowly looking for an electric car. Would an iMiev/c-zero/iOn be a good starting point for me? Why? Why not?

What I would like:
- affordable in the long term. I understand this to mean a somewhat repairable/replaceable battery.
- safe
- space for four adults (doesn't have to be super large and comfortable)
- range in summer @85 km/h:
- either 120 km and quick charging (most chargers here still have chademo)
- or preferably 250km and no quick charging needed
- mechanical parts easily maintainable by a local workshop
- affordable in the long term: battery cells relatively easy to replace
- battery not too unhappy with occasional extreme cold (-25C)

I couldn't care less about colour, tire type, luxury, the occasional dent or scratch.

Skills and willingness to fiddle:
- basic electronics (soldering, esp32, ...)
- software (basic firmware reverse engineering, linux, ...)
- 3d printing
- NO high voltage experience, but willing to pick this up
- I wouldn't mind setting a can bridge or whatever.

What do you think? Would an iMiev/c-zero/iOn be something for me?

Looking forward to your hints!

toecheese

@toecheese, welcome and thanks for asking, especially as you identified your requirements.

1) Affordability as you have defined it for the long term - battery replacement from the manufacturer is prohibitively expensive (>$15KUSD), but you can peruse the ongoing efforts of some of our members doing their own replacement. e.g.,
https://myimiev.com/threads/the-aftermarket-cell-replacement-saga.4403/
and do a search for "Battery Replacement" to see more.

2) Safety is relative. I don't recall any posts on this forum of anyone being killed or seriously injured in an i-MiEV, but it has undoubtedly happened. The car handles well and is sprightly and I've escaped a number of accidents by reacting quickly and the car not letting me down.

3) Space - four adults fit ok, but the car's main attraction for me is that the rear seats fold down completely flat and the car becomes a capacious station wagon for two people.

4) Range - at 85km/hour, when new on a single charge the i-MiEV would have had a hard time achieving 120km (more like 100km), and with the now-ten-year-old+ cars it would be hard-pressed to achieve 80km. With CHAdeMO and a 15-minute stop to charge, 120km would be no problem even now. All depends on the battery State of Health. I have made many trips exceeding 250km with CHAdeMO charging - just plan on taking your time and catching up on emails or going for a walk while the car is charging. As a daily commuter, I would not expect to do more than 60km round trip.

5) Mechanical part replacement - I personally don't know as haven't needed to do anything significant in 12 years other than replace tires.

6) Extreme cold (-25°C) - living in California, this is incomprehensible to me but we do have some members in Norway and...

It's always fun to know where in the world someone is located, as we occasionally find other i-MiEV owners close to us. You might consider updating your profile (which will show your location by your username whenever you post), the procedure described here:
https://myimiev.com/threads/admin-how-to-let-us-know-where-you-are-located.5446/

For me, the biggest drawback to tinkering with the car (and all modern cars) is the need to understand the car's CANbus as they're all computers on wheels and when something goes wrong you start by looking for DTCs and go from there. There is support for this in terms of tools and apps -
https://myimiev.com/threads/testing-and-monitoring-apps-and-tools-and-scanners.4950/
and the body of knowledge on this forum is growing as people buy inoperable EVs and share their experiences.

The primary Achilles Heel of the car is failure of the Onboard Charger (OBC) which also contains the dc-dc converter to feed the 12v battery, but there is an excellent thread on repairing it.
https://myimiev.com/threads/the-tro...rd-charger-obc-thread.4079/page-70#post-50690

Perhaps others can chime in?

 

[MickeyS70]

Hello,

- space for four adults (doesn't have to be super large and comfortable)

It’s a tight fit for two adults in the back..

- range in summer @85 km/h:
- either 120 km and quick charging (most chargers here still have chademo)
- or preferably 250km and no quick charging needed

Not realistic expectations for a used triplet, unless you consider upgrading the HV battery to NMC cells

What do you think? Would an iMiev/c-zero/iOn be something for me?

If you’re willing to compromise on your range requirements or upgrade the cells, it might work out, otherwise I don’t think a triplet will be suitable for your needs, unfortunately.

 

[toecheese]

It’s a tight fit for two adults in the back..

Which is fine.

Not realistic expectations for a used triplet, unless you consider upgrading the HV battery to NMC cells

I _want_ to be able to redo the HV battery. How feasible that would be to do safely and properly I have no idea. I'd be starting from zero high voltage experience.

 

[MickeyS70]

I _want_ to be able to redo the HV battery. How feasible that would be to do safely and properly I have no idea. I'd be starting from zero high voltage experience.

Have a read through below:
https://myimiev.com/threads/main-traction-battery-upgrade-i-miev.5458/

 

[tomhanman]

I'm not an expert, but I am a person. I have been tinkering with one of these recently and with the Nissan Leaf for a long while. We're on the imiev forum so I'll say it quetly; I think you want a Leaf.

Better range, massive possibilities for tweaking, modifying, cell replacement for range improvement, even inverter replacement for power increase etc.

Enough space for four adults in comfort (it's not a Bently) plus connected services so long as you go post 2013.

And that's the key, finding the right one - 2013-2015 with heat pump, led lights and solar panel would be my choice for budget. You'll have to be careful about battery state, you'll need a pretty good 24kWh to do 120km, or a fairly average 30kWh. Then of course you can meddle.

Just don't tell anyone here I said so.

 

[hjdlsnbc]

Skills and willingness to fiddle:
- basic electronics (soldering, esp32, ...)
- software (basic firmware reverse engineering, linux, ...)

The imiev would fit your needs. Could you please get one? The whole community here needs people who could do firmware reverse engineering. The only person i know of who did firmware reverse engineering was @kolyandex but sadly he is selling his research outcome instead of sharing with all others.
The BMU firmware (the battery controller) can be configured up to 120Ah in the current firmware but its not been shared with others how this could be configured.
Also the ETACS firmware needs some reverse engineering. Or at least some help with config file understanding.

If you get a imiev model from 2012 or before, you would need to replace the battery more quickly. If you get a 2013 or more modern one, you would have the more modern LEV50N cells inside and would have enough time to reverse engineer the firmware and everything else before you could maybe have to replace the LEV50N cells at something over 200000-300000 km.
The imiev produce less maintenance cost then the leaf to my knowledge.
Please get one and get into this community here. The community here need your skills.

 

[tomhanman]

I wholeheartedly agree with the above. It would be great to have some serious coding ability on the project... Not least to help me remove all the ancillary components for my project without triggering turtle

I've put 120,000kms on my 2015 30kWh Leaf. I have changed the tyres twice, and I need a new rear windscreen wiper blade. But that's just one example.