Nissan Leaf improves efficiency

Mitsubishi i-MiEV Forum

Help Support Mitsubishi i-MiEV Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
So now the near-midsize Leaf is cheaper and more efficient than the sub-mini i-MiEV? This is great news for EV fans, not so great for Mitsubishi. I'm afraid our "little engine that could" is being outspent and outclassed by a larger, richer, more committed rival. If Nissan can address their battery thermal management issues to put an end to hot climate horror stories, and perhaps improve the performance of their RR meter, Mitsubishi won't have even a marginal case to make in support of the i-MiEV. I really hope we're going to see a 2013 model, and I really hope it will be cheaper, but the price hike in Canada does not bode well.

Looking back, I think 2012 has to be viewed as an opportunity that Mitsubishi squandered while it still had some small advantages over Nissan's better funded EV. They buried the "Lowest priced EV - by A LOT!!" lead by only showing reviewers the high-priced SE Premium, leading to review after review asking "Why wouldn't I spend an extra couple of grand for a Leaf?" They did nothing meaningful to raise awareness of the car, eschewing mass market advertising in favor of a poorly tended and completely ineffectual social networking campaign. They neglected early adopters by emphasizing putting unwanted inventory on dealer lots over filling pre-orders, which was doubly stupid, both cooling the ardor of those most excited about the car, and limiting the car's exposure by leaving them parked in lots and showrooms instead of being driven around town by happy new owners. And perhaps worst of all, when these marketing missteps generated the predictable results, loose-lipped execs began bad-mouthing the car and its prospects, made a big deal of saying they wouldn't be improving or updating the car and implied that it would soon be withdrawn, and began talking up the Outlander PHEV months before they'd have any to sell (which is still not yet).

All this might be because, after years of development, Mitsubishi found themselves with a car that cost too much to build to be sold profitably and competitively against Nissan's surprisingly strong first effort. I kind of hope that's the case, because at least that would be understandable. If they stay in the States and stand behind the car for service and support, I'll have no quarrel with them - but I won't be able to help wondering what might have been.
 
Having inventories while other clients are waiting is simply mind bogling.

Maybe they really want to say "you see Market is not ready for EVs". End of story...

I sincerely hope that in 5-8 years we will be able to upgrade the battery modules while keeping existing BMS and charger, otherwise buying an EV might not have been the excellent deal I was first aiming at.

Let's enjoy it for now, yesterday I saw that I drove 2700 km in two months, simply because we use as often as possible the czero. This mounts for a 800USD saving compared to my Jag. That means 3200 / year, say 15000 in 5 years. Bought the car for 20000, still seems like a fair deal.
 
A thoughtful and upfront review of the facts, Vike - I agree with all you said

As to whether or not our purchase was a wise one or not - That will depend on what happens over the next several years. I expect when it's all said and done and the fuel and maintenance savings are compiled and analyzed, that it will prove to have been at least the financial equal of having bought another boring, sparsely equipped compact econobox which would have been zero fun to drive, not to mention all the emissions we would have added to the planet, so I really doubt many of us will end up regretting our purchases

For now - I'd still rather have my iMiEV for what I paid for it than owning a Leaf even with it's recent improvements and lower price, so I'm not remorseful . . . . not even a little bit

I agree that when the time comes, it would be nice to be able justify the expense of purchasing a new battery pack which would add 25 or 30% to the cars range - I hope that comes to pass at some point. These cars could last us a really long time in that case


Don
 
Don said:
As to whether or not our purchase was a wise one or not - That will depend on what happens over the next several years. I expect when it's all said and done and the fuel and maintenance savings are compiled and analyzed, that it will prove to have been at least the financial equal of having bought another boring, sparsely equipped compact econobox which would have been zero fun to drive, not to mention all the emissions we would have added to the planet, so I really doubt many of us will end up regretting our purchases
We're straying a bit off topic here, but I have to add, I really love driving my i-MiEV and I don't regret it at all. I liked the Leaf (speaking of our actual topic ;) ), but I was very glad the price difference so strongly favored the Mitsu, because honestly, there are some things about the Nissan I just didn't trust (the lack of active thermal management, mainly), and still don't. The Volt's something I might have considered as an only car (the lousy cargo capacity being an obvious problem), but I had no need to spend that kind of money with a Prius sitting in the garage with all the gasoline-fueled range I could want. Ford did such a rotten job with the Focus-E's packaging and pricing that I can't figure out who it's been built for - judging from the numbers, apparently a rarefied clientele. And, umm, that was it for plug-in cars offered for sale in New Mexico at the time.

All that said, the very low unit sales and Mitsu's public display of cold feet do make me a little uneasy. If maintenance costs skyrocket (which I hope is unlikely) and resale value plummets (which I fear is baked in at this point) this could prove to be a costly experiment. That probably goes double if the poor thing gets busted up at some intersection and there's a need to replace body parts, as I'm rather afraid of an insurer totaling it on the cheap (perhaps I should discuss that with my insurance company at some point). That's the sort of thing a Focus or Spark EV owner probably won't have to worry about.

While I won't throw too much good money after bad, my strong inclination is to keep the car, as I'm quite fond of it. I like the idea of driving something unique - it suits my penchant for contrariness.
 
Articles like this do get me to thinking about what ifs? I have to reign myself in and get back to the day I made the decision to buy the Mitsubishi over the Leaf. I know I made the right decision for me and I wouldn't change it if I could do it all over again.

1.) I don't own a smart phone and don't want to get one just to precondition my car, the i's remote is perfect for me and I use it all the time.
2.) Because of the winter conditions I park my car in the garage, the Leaf would have been a tight squeeze whereas the i-MiEV fits right in.
3.) The range on the i-MiEV was exactly what I needed and I couldn't justify the cost of the Leaf at that time for 11 more miles.
4.) I don't carry many people, at most two others but I do carry a lot of stuff and the Leafs 'hump' that has now been fixed (kinda') was a sore spot when the i-MiEV had a flat cargo space.
5.) The i-MiEV was more fun to drive, I could tell right away that I liked the i-MiEV a lot better than the heavy feeling Leaf.
6.) The Leaf styling is so close to a Versa that I owned for four years, I couldn't figure out why they just didn't electrify the Versa? The i-MiEV has styling that is nothing like anything else out there. I always like to drive unique vehicles.
7.) Worried about the hi-tec electronics in the Leaf and how they would perform for the long haul. From reading the Leaf forum, the Leaf suffers from display problems, hiccups, start failures, mysterious problems that take weeks to resolve. None of these has been reported on our forum, outside of a charger failure one member reported and a few radio problems - not much else has gone wrong with our cars.

I'm glad to see the Leaf is advancing and improving. This is a good thing, not a bad one. I know our i-MiEV has influenced the 2013 Leaf, from the new S model and the improved efficiency. Nissan clearly saw the challenges the i-MiEV presented and sought to exceed those. We'll continue to see these advances as our i-MiEVs gracefully age and more and more people join the EV Revolution. In the meanwhile, I'll continue to motor along happily and gas free in my i-MiEV.
 
Vike said:
So now the near-midsize Leaf is cheaper and more efficient than the sub-mini i-MiEV? This is great news for EV fans, not so great for Mitsubishi. I'm afraid our "little engine that could" is being outspent and outclassed by a larger, richer, more committed rival. If Nissan can address their battery thermal management issues to put an end to hot climate horror stories, and perhaps improve the performance of their RR meter, Mitsubishi won't have even a marginal case to make in support of the i-MiEV. I really hope we're going to see a 2013 model, and I really hope it will be cheaper, but the price hike in Canada does not bode well.

Looking back, I think 2012 has to be viewed as an opportunity that Mitsubishi squandered while it still had some small advantages over Nissan's better funded EV. They buried the "Lowest priced EV - by A LOT!!" lead by only showing reviewers the high-priced SE Premium, leading to review after review asking "Why wouldn't I spend an extra couple of grand for a Leaf?" They did nothing meaningful to raise awareness of the car, eschewing mass market advertising in favor of a poorly tended and completely ineffectual social networking campaign. They neglected early adopters by emphasizing putting unwanted inventory on dealer lots over filling pre-orders, which was doubly stupid, both cooling the ardor of those most excited about the car, and limiting the car's exposure by leaving them parked in lots and showrooms instead of being driven around town by happy new owners. And perhaps worst of all, when these marketing missteps generated the predictable results, loose-lipped execs began bad-mouthing the car and its prospects, made a big deal of saying they wouldn't be improving or updating the car and implied that it would soon be withdrawn, and began talking up the Outlander PHEV months before they'd have any to sell (which is still not yet).

All this might be because, after years of development, Mitsubishi found themselves with a car that cost too much to build to be sold profitably and competitively against Nissan's surprisingly strong first effort. I kind of hope that's the case, because at least that would be understandable. If they stay in the States and stand behind the car for service and support, I'll have no quarrel with them - but I won't be able to help wondering what might have been.

This is the most insightful, well written, best thought out review of the i-MiEV I've yet to read. Love mine, but totally agree. I'm happy, feel like I've handled my transportation needs for my commute very well, but could not agree more. Lets just hope they stick with it and support the car in the coming years.
 
WyVern said:


From the UK article: “Price £18,490 (inc Government grant) + £70 per month battery lease;”

Oh great! More monthly bills! Hmm, $106 x 12 months x 8 years = $10,176. Hopefully our battery will be cheaper than that in 8 years. Or if it’s like my Prius 2002, it will still be going strong after 275,000 miles. Prius also keeps it battery--- never fully charged. I wonder if Nissan fixed/lowered its topped-off charging voltage.

Is this a sign Nissan still doesn’t trust their battery?

Just wondering,
-Barry
 
BarryP said:
...Is this a sign Nissan still doesn’t trust their battery?...
Nah, they're pandering to people's fears about the battery, have come up with a more attractive purchase price, and have simply figured out a different income stream. In the UK, especially, I cannot imagine the heat-related issues of an Arizona desert. :roll: IIRC, the Smart car here in the US is also offering such an option.
 
BarryP, don't forget the high cost of UK fuel that has led them to set that price. I don't doubt they could lease the battery for much less if they wanted but will try to make money from both ends of the horse if they can.

I suppose if you can sell the device and get an ongoing revenue stream too you get to gather not only sales profits but also the profit previously flowing to the oil companies.
 
Back
Top