Mitsubishi announces $6K price drop on 2014 i-MiEV!!!

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Don said:
...I thought about the Smart when I brought that up and was about to include the disclaimer that it's the smallest, lightest REAL car (you know . . . . something that can seat 4 and carry cargo) but I thought it would be obvious :lol:
Hmmm, Don, what about your Miata? :roll:

With the back seats down and its flat floor, would you believe that our iMiEV offers the most total usable load-carrying volume of any EV with the exception of the Tesla and RAV4EV, despite our small exterior dimensions. Time to update this thread: iMiEV vs. Competition, as the new crop of EVs still doesn't hold a candle to the all-round utility of our wonderful little workhorse, IMO.
 
This really is fantastic news. I think Mitsubishi did everything right with this relaunch in terms of the product itself. Highlights for me were:

- Mitsubishi has lowered the price by enough to make the car truly competitive. I don't think the closeout pricing on the 2012s diminishes the viability of this new $23K price point, (especially considering that this is really a SE w/CHAdeMO - so the price cut relative to a 2012 is really more like $8k). During the clearance sale, nobody was sure if the car was orphaned, while this is now clearly a relaunched product. With the 2014 comfortably below even SmartED pricing (and for all the snark directed at our poor little "i", it's clearly more car than the ForTwo), and Nissan having no need to go there, the i-MiEV is likely to remain the lowest-priced EV for the rest of its run (though I'm guessing that will only be a couple more MYs - see below).

- Aside from perhaps the aluminum wheels, making the SE trim level standard costs Mitsu next to nothing, and adds to the perceived value of the car. Good move. I've noticed there's some confusion on this in the comments - this is definitely the SE interior, with the "SEE ALL STANDARD FEATURES" link (at the official i-MiEV page) listing the interior as dark brown fabric with fabric door inserts. I think the "black-out door sash trim" refers to painting the portion of the door framing the window black (I notice this isn't shown on the web site pictures, but neither is the blue exterior). I am intrigued by the phrase "new daytime running lights." Why new? Are they different from the DRLs integrated with the fog lights in the 2012 (standard on SE, optional on ES)? Or are they just "new" in the sense of "new to the base trim level"? (but then, so are the fog lights).

- Making CHAdeMO standard is a big win, especially in California. Once again, they're delivering $700 worth of perceived value for a fraction of that in manufacturing cost, especially if it no longer needs to be managed as an option. For the hack-inclined, it's worth noting that the CHAdeMO package includes battery temperature management features for quick-charging that can be slightly altered to allow for cabin air to be directed to the battery pack during normal operation (I know, we thought we had that all along - the Mitsu boys are not the best communicators).

- I love that we get that Canadian BLUE! It would have been a shame to have no "colorful" option for the exterior. Condolences to fans of Prowler Purple.

- Speaking of the Canadian model, I'm relieved to see that we picked up their 2013 model features (not all of which appeared in the initial draft 2014 model feature list). The switchable 8A/12A L1 EVSE is a big win, making L1-only charging feasible for many more potential buyers (14-hour full charges might be inconvenient, but 22-hour charges are just impractical). Perhaps just as important in day-to-day cold weather use, the heated passenger seat is a very big deal, allowing operation with reduced (or no) cabin heating even when the spouse is along.



With all that good news, one hates to point out a few minor sour notes, but:

- The heater appears to be the same sad energy hog it was before. I'm not sure why people are interpreting "electric compressor cabin heater" to mean a new heat pump system - that's exactly the same description used for the heater in the 2012 model. I still say fuel-based heaters are needed for EVs to maintain decent range and comfort in true cold, but I never expected we'd see such a big engineering effort for this near-done model, so I can't honestly claim this is a disappointment.

- I have mixed feelings about making the SE interior standard. There are many attractive additions (most notably the 360-watt 6-speaker audio), but as it turns out the brown and silver plastic that distinguishes the SE interior is really the same plastic used in the ES with thin color coatings added. Unfortunately, some SE owners have reported these coatings are already starting to flake and/or peel on the dash and door handles, so my aesthetic preference for "plastic-looking black plastic" has had the unexpected benefit of avoiding that problem.

- I'm not sure we can expect a marketing "push" per se. The i-MiEV's prospects are improved, but I'm sure it's still not a profitable proposition, especially at the new price. How much money do you want to spend advertising $20 bills for sale at $19? Unlike the LEAF, the i-MiEV's gotten enough dismal reviews to diminish its value as a "halo" car, and the few references that have leaked into mainstream media have not been flattering. All that said, as I observed during the 2012's pathetic stint in the showrooms, it's pretty hard for people to buy what you won't sell. So I hope Mitsubishi has learned that even if they don't aggressively promote the car, it's important that they at least let people know it exists, if only for a few seconds during "brand awareness" commercials (remember the "Unpretentious" campaign? What's more unpretentious than the i-MiEV?).

- Fond as we may be of our little weebles, it's pretty clear the i-MiEV isn't going to become the long-running VW Beetle of EVs, belonging more in the column of "first effort" than "timeless classic." While entirely new to the U.S., relatively new in EV garb, and vaguely futuristic in appearance (though people more likely think "Tata Nano" than "transport pod"), we have to remember that the i is near end of life as a kei car model, having first appeared in concept form a full decade ago. It's almost certain to be replaced by the new Mitsu-Nissan "world car" now in development. The companies have collaborated on kei cars for years, but they are now even more closely allied, and have committed to deliver a BEV version of this new mini-car using Mitsubishi motors and electronics with Nissan batteries. We can be fairly certain that's the low-end EV that Mitsu will be selling once it's available, perhaps as soon as the 2016 MY. Until then, the i-MiEV should do quite nicely filling the gap, but there's little reason for it to continue beyond that.

- At this new lower price point, the inequity of the federal tax credit becomes even more obvious. The credit can only be applied to taxes owed, so if your taxes are < $7500, you won't get the difference back as a cash credit. After applying deductions, most households pay less than $7500/year in federal income taxes, many considerably less. Compounding the problem is that the credit comes with next year's tax refund instead of at the time of purchase, so for people who can't afford a $7500 down payment, they wind up having to include the "credit" money in the financed amount. When we were talking about $40k Chevy Volts, this wasn't much of a concern, since middle-income households weren't buying such cars. But a $23k i-MiEV is a horse of a different color, and it's quite unfair that this affordable car is absolutely cheaper for higher-income households than for those of more modest means.
 
The 2012 models have an electric resistance heater. There is a description of electric compressor air conditioning, which is correct. The 2014 listings have both compressor heater and compressor air conditioning.

Where did you see the 2012 having compressor heat?
 
PV1 said:
The 2012 models have an electric resistance heater. There is a description of electric compressor air conditioning, which is correct. The 2014 listings have both compressor heater and compressor air conditioning.

Where did you see the 2012 having compressor heat?
See, this is the problem - Mitsubishi's playing fast and loose with their language. Compressor and resistance are apparently not mutually exclusive terms depending on the details of the hardware, and while we all know that the 2012 i-MiEV's heater is a "resistance" heater, they apparently were referring to it as a compressor heater all along (because of the circulating fluid? I've no idea). I don't believe any official Mitsubishi feature list ever used the term "resistance" heater.

Mitsubishi no longer has their 2012 information up, of course, but if you reference the Wayback Machine internet archive, they have saved earlier crawled versions, here's the relevant one from 09-Apr-2012, providing a detailed list of ES vs. SE features:

http://web.archive.org/web/20120409042745/http://i.mitsubishicars.com/miev/features/compare

As you can see, the third item listed under "Comfort & Convenience" is "Electric compressor cabin heater". So nothing's changed - it's still not a heat pump.
 
Good find, Vike! I was initially surprised (very pleasantly) by the rather major upgrade that a heat pump heater would represent. But I now think that's too good to be true.

The description of the heater as a "compressor heater" is completely misleading. There's no way in the English language that I know of to interpret "compressor" as "resistance".
 
Who knows at this point? Mitsubishi's marketing department has been pretty non-existent with the i-MiEV, and a decent amount of information they've put out regarding more technical details has been misleading or just flat out incorrect. I'd love to see heat pump heat, but it's too soon to tell. Maybe the mini-site just had pre-production information? Wasn't there a price jump in one direction of the other in the early days of the US i-MiEV? Maybe something to do with a switch from compressor to resistance?

My window sticker says electric cabin heater. Guess I'll find out in February. Mitsubishi is scheduled for an auto show.
 
PV1 said:
Who knows at this point? Mitsubishi's marketing department has been pretty non-existent with the i-MiEV, and a decent amount of information they've put out regarding more technical details has been misleading or just flat out incorrect....
Yes, they need to do their homework a little bit better. For example, quoting from their Newsroom posting
http://media.mitsubishicars.com/releases/31f1c4c1-3f67-479a-8bbe-edc0cdebe8b9

"In fact, after factoring in the available EV federal tax credit of $7,500 and, for example, the California state EV financial incentive of up to $2,500***, (other generous financial incentives are available through numerous states and municipalities), residents in California can obtain the technologically-advanced 2014 Mitsubishi i-MiEV as low as $12,995."

The California incentive is based on the size of the battery pack, and whereas the Leaf gets a $2500 rebate, our i-MiEV only gets $2000. Nevertheless, it's nice to get a check from the State, for a change. In addition, the San Juaquin Valley Air Pollution Control District (they're serious over there!) gives another $3000 to an i-MiEV purchaser in their region. I don't know if the program is still in effect, but their website is active:
http://www.valleyair.org/grant_prog...ive_Clean_Rebate_Program_Vehicles_8-19-13.pdf

Who could resist such a low bottom line for an everyday workhorse that costs two cents/mile in fuel?
 
JoeS said:
Who could resist such a low bottom line for an everyday workhorse that costs two cents/mile in fuel?
Apparently, the dealers. I visited my dealer yesterday to replace my bad impact sensor. I talked to the salesman, and he said that they're not stocking any 2014's. If someone comes in and wants one, they'll order it. The natural gas companies are strangling EVs around here. West Virginia scrapped all alternative incentives except for propane and natural gas vehicles.

At least there's interest closer to home.
 
What do you folks think of the recent price cut for the Miev - about 6K?

If I bought now, the price, including CA and Fed rebates, would be about 13K !

Personally, I feel a bit ripped-off, having bought mine about 1 1/2 yrs. ago. I think Mitsubishi is getting desperate to move them. But it's a problem they created by a lack of promotion and advertising. :roll:
 
psyflyjohn, I merged the new topic you started with this existing one. To answer your concern, look at it this way: as an early adopter you have already reaped the benefits of 1-1/2 years of EV driving.

In 1984, my Macintosh cost me almost $2500 (1984 money) for a 512K machine. Early flat-panel TVs were on the order of $10,000. I knew that I was paying a lot for transportation when I bought my i-MiEV almost two years ago, and I certainly realized that the price would drop (if EVs survived the initial euphoria).

IMO, Mitsubishi stuck their toe into the water and realized, after two years of experience, that EVs are indeed a viable proposition for the United States. To date, the reliability of our iMiEV I think is exemplary and I'm happy to welcome the iMiEV back. At least two family members and countless friends have been so impressed by our Mitsi that I won't be surprised if they buy one. I just wish the populace was more numerate to realize just how well suited this vehicle is to everyday life.
 
IMHO the problem of I-miev is not bad advertising. Most people think it is ugly, too small, poorly equipped, made ​​of poor materials.

Yeah, I know, we are different and we need a car for cheap transportation from point A to point B. Many people even like to ride in it. But we are a minority. The competition (Leaf) offers much more comfort, gadgets, equipment, space ... for not much more money.

The price reduction will certainly contribute to better sales in the United States. Nevertheless, the car will remain ugly, too small, poorly made to the majority of potential buyers​​. Western consumers are lead by emotions rather than reason, so even significant price cut can't change the perception of our car in eyes of the majority of potential buyers.

BTW, I'm not a majority ;)
 
I think lack of advertising and public perception are both major hurdles, but their effect on sales differs across the US. I've taken my i-MiEV to as many renewable energy-related events as possible (Earth Day events, one bicycle event celebrating the completion of the Great Allegheny Passage, which connects Pittsburgh to Washington, DC with the C&O Towpath bike trail, and a few others), and perception has been exceptionally well. I've even had a few offer to buy mine. Nearly all of them didn't know Mitsubishi had an EV :!:

Twice a year, a local Steam, gas, and horse show is held showcasing old machinery, cars, tractors, etc. Electricity has a very small presence at this show, mainly a large, 3-cylinder, two-stroke Diesel Generator. Just for fun, I took my i-MiEV and showcased it. I still had a considerable amount of interest, most of the people I talked to really liked it, without even riding in it. I did hear a couple of people (maybe 3) that had a snide comment as they walked past, distantly :roll: . I was prepared if anybody gave me a hassle, that my car was representing a major piece of automobile history. Electric cars pre-date internal combustion, and for a short while, outsold gasoline cars around the 1900's.

At any rate, I think Mitsubishi may have blown their chance with the i-MiEV. The dealers aren't going to be burned twice by having cars sit on the lot that they can't sell. The dealer I bought from ended up buying the 4 they had on the lot and using them as rentals and loaners. The $6,130 they knocked off the price while making the SE pretty much the base model will certainly help, as long as potential EV buyers know about the i-MiEV. This means Mitsubishi is going to have to hit hard with marketing the i-MiEV. So are the dealers. There also needs to be good information explaining the benefits (and even some downsides) of electric vehicles vs. gasoline and even natural gas and hydrogen (some of those surfacing).
 
Several things hurt sales

Lack of infrastructure to recharge where you need and relatively quickly . . . . and the ability to recharge at all because others are not being courteous using the few charging resources that are out there

Perceived 'Range Anxiety' is probably near the top of the list and EV makers are doing next to nothing educating the public that the car can actually do about 90% of the trips the average driver does each day

The $7500 'tax credit' benefits only the more well to do buyers (those earning around $100K or a little more) and those sorts of folks are not your 'market' if you're trying to sell econo-box EV's. If the Federal program benefitted everyone equally (by bringing the price of EVERY car down by $7500) then you'd see lots more interest. Financially penalizing the ones who would be most interested while giving those more well off yet another windfall isn't the way to stir interest in new technologies

The Tesla fires aren't helping. Thank heavens the manufacturers were very careful with home recharging technology so we haven't seen a spate of EV's burning down their owners residences

Lastly, the as yet unknown cost of EV driving, long term. When the battery finally needs replacing, what's that going to add to the overall cost per mile? The actual cost may be as high or higher than equal sized conventional vehicles

Don
 
So, public survey? :idea: (and possibly a new thread?)

As for battery costs, my laptop battery, in 2008, cost $300. In 2010, it cost $150. Now, $55. This is the same battery for the same laptop, which hasn't been in production since late 2007. So, for an i-MiEV battery, which right now costs about $10,000 :?: might only be $7,000 in another two years. By the time the warranty runs out, $3,000? Laptop battery prices seem to have halved every two years since the Tesla Roadster started production.
 
I agree with Don in that the $7500 tax credit should instead be a simple rebate. The least that can be done, considering the extent to which fossil fuels are subsidized.

PV1, having displayed our iMiEV at many EVents this year, I was also pleasantly-surprised at the overwhelmingly-positive responses to our car. Perhaps because the EVents were primarily 'green' and visited by a receptive crowd? It helps to be there in person and do a show-and-tell to highlight the car's features (especially the capacious aft end with the seats down) and my now-standard response to "how far can it go?" of "over 200 miles/day" followed up immediately by this example

It would be interesting to determine the demographic of the iMiEV's existing/potential purchaser, as I think Mitsubishi should not waste their time on the huge SUV and huge gussied-up pickup truck innumerate crowd as they seem insensitive to the environment and $$ value anyway (my bias is showing...).

Zelenec - our culture here (at least on the US West Coast) is perhaps a little more tolerant and receptive of inexpensive entry-level cars, recognizing their place in the overall scheme of things. Car magazine reviewers love high-performance, are sucked in by what I would call superficialities and the latest techie doo-dads, but they rarely drive the cars long enough to appreciate their functionality. Sadly, 'professional' car reviewers have an inordinate amount of influence over the public's perception.

As an aside, I still remember the brand-new Tesla S owner piling in his kids into the back of the car at the local farm with their muddy boots all over the seats and upholstery - something to be said in favor of plastic and cheap seats over leather for an everyday short-haul workhorse.

Regarding looks: how many variations of a box (to maximize interior) coupled with an elongated snout (attempt at reducing drag) are there? Almost all the women I've talked with think our iMiEV is 'cute', though I concede that the Fiat 500e is cuter. :roll:
 
JoeS said:
I agree with Don in that the $7500 tax credit should instead be a simple rebate. The least that can be done, considering the extent to which fossil fuels are subsidized.
Exactly.

JoeS said:
PV1, having displayed our iMiEV at many EVents this year, I was also pleasantly-surprised at the overwhelmingly-positive responses to our car. Perhaps because the EVents were primarily 'green' and visited by a receptive crowd? It helps to be there in person and do a show-and-tell to highlight the car's features (especially the capacious aft end with the seats down)
That was my thinking. That's why I took it to the steam, gas, and horse show. Still exceptionally positive.

JoeS said:
It would be interesting to determine the demographic of the iMiEV's existing/potential purchaser, as I think Mitsubishi should not waste their time on the huge SUV and huge gussied-up pickup truck innumerate crowd as they seem insensitive to the environment and $$ value anyway (my bias is showing...).
I started to construct a survey. Just trying to find out the best way of getting it out there. It would benefit all EV manufacturers, not just Mitsubishi. It can be found here if anybody wants to chip in. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bRiCVCyZmzh_rbchk4sfQC0vBUwP-0eH4NUcYZPSCso/edit?usp=sharing
 
Don said:
Several things hurt sales...Lack of infrastructure to recharge where you need and relatively quickly . . . .
This is also true for the Leaf and other EVs, however, they are much better selling models.
Don said:
If the Federal program benefitted everyone equally (by bringing the price of EVERY car down by $7500)
It's the case in EU where incentives are present. Every buyer is payed the amount of subsidy after the purchase. I was payed for example 5k€ three days after purchase on my bank account. But still, I-miev is hard to sell in EU. It's simply entry level car with middle class car price. Many people I spoke about my car in the year and half would buy it, if it would cost 10.000€ or less. And more of them would never drive it even for free because of reasons I mentioned before.
Don said:
When the battery finally needs replacing, what's that going to add to the overall cost per mile? The actual cost may be as high or higher than equal sized conventional vehicles
It's not very likely to happen. To replace Volt's battery (16kWh) it would cost you now less than 3.000$. Even if you would be interested to replace all cells by yourself, it would cost you less than 6.500$ now. In few years the number will drop significantly.
 
JoeS said:
Almost all the women I've talked with think our iMiEV is 'cute', though I concede that the Fiat 500e is cuter. :roll:
You're right, same here! But we still live in men's world (who's bigger...) and the car still is a "status symbol" so men buy big cars they don't need with money they don't have to impress people they don't like.

It's something feminine in me obviously: I-miev is cute to me (EU version even more then US one), it's large enough, fast enough, go far enough, it's versatile, cheap to drive ... So why would I ever want a different car?
 
I tend to think Mitsu compounded their errors with this price drop by eliminating options. Why slash margins to the bone by making all the extras standard? Perhaps the inventory savings are worthwhile, but DCFC will be wasted on most if the country. Now if I coulda had a blue i with steel wheels, manually-cranked windows, but a cold weather kit and CHAdeMO, that'd be mine, even if the alloys were only $500 more. An ES appeals to us cheapskates and adds panache to the SE that it will otherwise go without. Plus, I'm still betting that the infotainment system will be the most likely piece to fail or seem obsolete on my car in 10 years, which was a reason I opted for a base model the first time. CHAdeMO (and hopefully improved driving skills) has made a 16% addition to my rate of mileage accumulation, but it also adds peace-of-mind and bragging rights/ reduces the days I use the gasser to about once per month. "How far will it go? Well I drove to Portland and back in a day with no problem." (Only 7 fast-charging stops.)
 
I think price affects perception. The i-Miev doesn't look like a $30,000 car. But does it look like a $15,000 car? Very much so. People don't want to hear about the extra cost of the battery. if they spend $30k they want a $30k car, but if they're spending $15k they only expect a $15k car. This price point plus marketing should move some i-Mievs. My only hope is that Mitsu will also improve the suspension. It's the single worst thing about the car. The ride is wonderful until you start hitting bumps.
 
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