Miev Minicab

[HiJet]

Just spent 45 mins making a witty, killer introductory post on my ipad, hit preview, and it's gone :x oh man, so you'll have to make due with the condensed version, sorry.

Please help me by critiquing , punching holes, that's why I'm here

Always wanted an EV, but love my 4wd "kei" daihatsu hijet cargo
http://jumvea.or.jp/japan-Nihonsha/used-daihatsu-hijet-cargo-4wd-805071.html and it's air con and dual heaters. It gets 12-14km/l. Have hit 16 trying hypermiling but it's difficult. Spending 50 USD a week on my fairly long commute.

Post Fukushima I gave up, thinking why bother. But recently came back to the idea and found a pretty good used EV market here.

The Minicab. http://www.carsensor.net/usedcar/bMI/s104/. Is the same as my HiJet basically without 4wd. I need the cargo space for firewood hauling etc.

The commute is 30 km one way but a few times per week I'll come back for lunch, making for 120 km per day and sometimes 140 km per day. About 500 km per week. But I think there is ample time for charging at home on 200v, and at work on 100v, plus have found a few more free, or 200yen/2USD, ChaDemo spots nearby, the most convienient one cost 800yen/8usd, ouch, but still cheaper than gas I think.

Silly question 1.

We get heavy, wind driven rain and we don't have a garage or carport nor do I want to build one. Do " all weather chargers" Need a real roof? I can pull the hypothetical EV to an overhang on the side porch where some rain may hit the charger connector but not very serious.

Will be back with more questions soon, thanks!

 

[JoeS]

HiJet, you're not the only one who spent an hour composing the 'perfect' post only to have it vaporize. I think there may be a timeout if we take too long. I usually compose in a text editor and then copy/paste.

Your driving distance should not be a problem as you have charging at both ends in addition to CHAdeMO if needed. With 200v at home, you WILL be fully charged when you leave for work in the morning (unless you carouse a lot and come home in the middle of the night...). :lol: After you get an electric vehicle you quickly realize that range is whatever you want it to be, as simply slowing down and turning off the heater results in truly amazing range-extension. When you come home for lunch, simply plug the car in and within an hour you will have recovered 20km.

Other than CHAdeMO, I am not familiar with Japanese charging interface units. The charger itself is mounted inside the car. In the US, the standard is J1772 and we refer to Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment (EVSE) as the "charging station". All the very simplistic EVSE does is provide the appropriate signals through the J1772 connector into the car to tell the onboard charger how much current it can draw and, if all the safety items are ok (e.g., no ground fault), the charger then turns on. Even though it's rated as "all-weather" and undoubtedly complies with whatever Japanese safety standards are applicable, I would always try to shield all electrical and electronic equipment from serious rain and sun. A few splashes certainly should not affect equipment that is rated as weatherproof.

 

[misterbleepy]

my EVSE is outside, we also get high winds and driving rain here, and I have not had any problems with it (yet).

I regularly have to plug/unplug the car in the rain, and I haven't had a shock yet.

 

[Don]

I regularly have to plug/unplug the car in the rain, and I haven't had a shock yet.

The J1772 standard was developed with this in mind - There is no power at the charge handle when the connection is made nor when you go to disconnect it

Charging in the rain/sun/snow shouldn't be a problem. As Joe mentioned, I would do what I could within reason to shield that corner of the car from as much adverse weather as possible, but being forced to live with an outdoor car shouldn't be any more of an issue just because it's an electric car

Don

 

[jray3]

Ditto from sunny Seattle, HiJet. I've done more charging in the rain than not, with never a hint of trouble from the car (though an SPX design weakness killed my first portable EVSE from moisture intrusion into the brick- no harm to me or the car). Only weather-related difficulties I've heard of are ice buildup in the charging port that made it hard to disconnect.

 

[HiJet]

HiJet, you're not the only one who spent an hour composing the 'perfect' post only to have it vaporize. I think there may be a timeout if we take too long. I usually compose in a text editor and then copy/paste.

Thanks for that JoeS, I'm not very tech savvy. Working on it, just joined the 21st century recently with my ipad I'm still amazed daily by it

misterbleepy wrote:
I regularly have to plug/unplug the car in the rain, and I haven't had a shock yet.
The J1772 standard was developed with this in mind - There is no power at the charge handle when the connection is made nor when you go to disconnect it

And thanks for this mrbleepy
we get 2500-3000mm annually, should be interesting

The charger itself is mounted inside the car.

JoeS wrote

I thought the connection is made at a door where the gas tank cap is , no?

About my driving route, we live at 400m/1200ft at the foot of the mountains. Everything is downhill from here, but it's not super steep. The road drops from 400m to 200m over 6 km. down a pass with some 8 percent grade. Then it's a straight run with a drop downgrade of about 1m per 100m , I was checking with my gps. My work is at 80m alt. the first part should be good for regen but the long slog back up home should be difficult, especially with the boxy hypothetical Minicab Miev and a headwind. The route runs along a very narrow north-south facing valley, and yes half the year we get either a good northerly wind as now or southerly in warmer times. Reading other posts it seems drag is the main factor against us.

Fortunately the speed limit is 60km, traffic is light and not aggressive. Traffic usually runs at 60-70. There is also a side road through the villages and fields, speed limit is 40-50 km. when gas hit record highs a few years ago I was taking this route on my scooter and saving big yen. I've been practicing taking this route home at night now , using minimal heat, keeping to 50 kmh, and it only takes 5 mins or so more than the main road. There is also a "highway/toll road". With a speed limit of 80kmh. Traffic there runs 80-100kmh, but there is a ChADeMO ( I'll get that acronym right someday) on the return route southbound, they get 200¥/2 usd per charge a toll of either 100 or 300¥, haven't worked that out. I rarely take this route unless I'm running late or something is urgent.

JoeS wrote

After you get an electric vehicle you quickly realize that range is whatever you want it to be,

So if charging is not a problem, hopefully I can use either slower route and not have to skimp on the heat/ac, that would be nice. No, that would be perfect!

Hope you don't mind me thinking out loud here, but I really need to see if the EV is for me or not. So far other than the initial cost it seems so.

I calculate I should be able to save 10k$ vs. the cost of using gasoline,over 10 years, at least. I haven't calculated in the degradation of battery over time well enough yet though

Our electric rates are
9¥/ kWh overnight 11-6am

20¥/ kWh day. 6-4pm

30¥/ kWh peak 4-11pm

It takes an act of Parliament to raise residential elec. rates and they just did that so it should be a good many years until the next hike. Things change very slowly here for good or for worse.

Let's see if I can break it down

Daihatsu HiJet cost used 8000$

Minicab Miev used 16000

Gasoline per year 2500

Elec.@ 9¥kwh
X 20kwh per charge
X330 days =. 600$
___________________________________________________________________________

Gas x 3 years. 7500$.

Elec x 3 years. 1800$

Gas x 5. 12500.

Elec X 5. 3000

Gas X10. 25000.

Elec X. 10. 6000
_________________________________________________________________________
Gas Total plus car @10yrs. 33000$.

Elec Total plus car @10yrs. 22000$

Even if I double the electric rate to 20¥/kWh to reflect some daytime charging that comes to

Elec Total@10yrs. 13000$
Plus car price. 16000
____________________________
29,000$

Still save 4000$

Worst case scenario, taking into account battery degradation to 50% will probably
Be about the same as gas, but I'm quite the optimist, if batteries come down price by half in ten years even better, but who knows that one. I think here in Japan the gov. Is really betting the future on EVs. , hybrids.

Thanks for reading and if you see any gaping holes in my ideas please let me know

 

[Don]

I don't see any $$$ in your equations for maintenance for the gas powered vehicle - Oil and filter changes, tune ups, timing belt changes, transmission service, etc. The cost for these for the EV will be zero, but over a 10 year period, they would be a considerable expense for most ICE's

Battery degradation costs are very hard to put a number on. Here, Mitsubishi warrants the battery for 8 years, 100,000 miles and they say over that time, it may lose 20% of it's capacity. All we know for sure is that it's not going to cost us anything for the first 8 years. At some point, we'll probably have to pay something if we intend to keep driving the car, but the replacement certainly shouldn't be anything like the initial cost of the battery. If you bought something new 8 years from now, it will most certainly be something smaller, lighter, more powerful and cheaper than what we have now. Or, I could see us getting a 'rebuilt' original battery for 1/2 or 1/3rd of what the original one cost new. It's just about impossible to know what will be available 8 years from now

Don

 

[HiJet]

Hi and thanks for that Don,

I've been working on finding required maintenance costs here for the Minicab, so left that out of the equation. Should be much less than any ICE.

Did hit a snag on nighttime charging rates. Some electric utilities in Japan DO NOT allow EVs to charge at the overnight rate! I'm awaiting word from my provider, this may be a game changer. I chatted with an EV owner who's using a different elec. co. , he had to ask them, they said no, he pays 25cents instead of 10 per kWh. The utility said an EV is not a necessity, yet they promote green this and that, not to mention "all electric" houses, using no FF. I may need to install an electric "sauna" :mrgreen: , for my insomnia, this is ridiculous.