Looking at a 2017 iMiev with less than 1000 kms

[Boffingham]

Hello iMiev owners,

This my first post here, I have been reading a lot about the iMiev and I am amazed at how many of them are still on the road here in Quebec, Canada, especially with our harsh winters.
A local Mitsubishi dealer has just listed a 2017 model with less than 1000 kms. Now if this was an ICE vehicle this would be quite a find. But shouldn't an EV have some decent mileage on it to exercise the battery somewhat? I am unsure as to the health of the battery and still more unsure on how to check it. Any tips would be appreciated before I go see the vehicle. Thanks!

 

[JoeS]

Boffingham, welcome to the forum.

What a find! The car has spent its life just sitting there doing nothing.

You are correct, as a lot of the battery condition depends on how it was stored for these last four years. Typically, I would hope it was with the main battery stored somewhere at half-charge and not stored fully charged. This is unlike conventional lead-acid batteries, which should always be kept at full charge.

Since it is at a Mitsubishi dealership, they have the ability to test the battery pack to determine what its capacity is in ampere-hours as well as how well-balanced the individual cells are. For reference, a new battery has a measured capacity around 45Ah and the cell voltages should be within five millivolts of each other. I would expect them to give you a printout of the battery condition readings.

BTW, the 12v battery may need to be replaced, unless it was kept on a float charger all these years. The quiescent power draw of the Mitsubishi will discharge the 12v battery in about six weeks or less - simply because, among other things, the alarm system is active when the car is locked.

Wish you all the best!

 

[Boffingham]

Thank you JoeS for the reply! I hope to see it over the next few days and will report back what I find. It is completely overpriced but they may just want it off their lot as it has been there for quite a while. Cheers!

 

[GregFordyce]

My recently acquired 2012 iOn has done 16,000 miles but sat for over 2½ years at 80% SOC without being used at all until I fixed it. My battery shows 40.8Ah capacity. The RR (remaining range) shows between 70 and 81 miles when fully charged. I've driven it down to no bars showing and 2 miles RR without getting a turtle. I'd say that's pretty good for a 9 year old battery, the low usage and sitting for 2½ years doesn't seem to have caused any issues.

 

[Don]

40.8Ah after sitting 2 1/2 years at 80% SOC isn't just 'very good' - It's neigh onto a miracle! Usually, a car sitting at such a high charge for even a year would have lost much more than that - I have two cars to prove it

Don

 

[Boffingham]

Good morning,

So the 2017 iMiev was conditionally sold but they have a 2012 SE with 55,000 Kms on it. Seems in pretty good shape both inside and out.
I took it for a drive and is showed almost a full charge and displayed a range of 75 Kms. A/C and heater works but as soon as I turned either on the Range indicator dropped dramatically. So a few questions please:

Its cold here in the winter, does the heater work well? I am not worried about range as it is just for short errands but i want my EV to keep me warm. Wearing an electric blanket does not cut it for me.
Would pre-conditioning work with a L1 connection? Right now I just have 110 volts in the garage. Does the car keep its traction battery warm? I am afraid of -25C days hurting the battery long term.

I could use a 110 volt heater to pre-heat the cabin and then use the car to keep me warm on my errands.

Thanks again, great forum!

 

[JoeS]

Boffingham, too bad about that 2017...

First, the Range Remaining (RR) indicator prediction is based on how the car was driven for the preceding 15 miles (24km), and can thus vary all over the map. Sitting at a dealership I would expect this RR to be somewhat on the low side as most people like to leadfoot the car during a test drive. Turning on the heater decrements that RR approximately by 20% and turning on the aircon decrements the RR by around 10%.

In winter, preconditioning the car for about 15 minutes using the Remote (make sure the car has the Remote) is soooo nice, as you can either heat the car or both heat and defrost it as well. Yes, it works using 120vac but not as well as using Level 2 (240vac). Perhaps some of our northern friends can comment on this.

The heater in the i-MiEV is rather wimpy for very cold-weather climates. A number of owners have successfully inserted a diesel heater into the existing plumbing (there are a number of threads for this mod on this forum) - this mod makes a very big difference in winter comfort. That said, if you're just using the car for short errands, pre-heating it and running the heater + seat heater should work just fine as you don't care about losing range.

Come winter, most of us (even here in California) turn on the seat heater, as it consumes very little power compared to the main heater.

If the 2012 has CHAdeMO or the cold weather package then the cabin heat *I think* is automatically routed down to the battery, in addition to the aircon automatically turning on to cool the battery when using CHAdeMO. I'm a bit unclear on this, so perhaps someone can elaborate.

DCFC (dc fast charge) CHAdeMO is very highly desirable as it dramatically extends the usable range of our little i-MiEVs.

Oh, and don't forget to have the dealer give you a battery condition report. Edit: This 2012 car probably has the original LEV-50 cells and not the upgraded LEV-50N. Remember, the car's 10-year battery warranty will run out within the year, and there still is no one (that I'm aware of) in North America providing battery refurbishment, as buying a new main battery from Mitsubishi I believe is still cost-prohibitive.

 

[Boffingham]

Thanks for all the info, the car does not have a remote, probably was lost over the years. Can I still pre-heat the car? Guess that just means getting in and starting the heater.

Here is the options list, It has the entertainment/GPS option, not sure if this really a must have on a 2012.

https://www.mitsubishicars.com/rs/file/monroney?vin=JA3215H16CU018997

There is 2014 ES for sale in Montreal, 3 hour drive, that has 75,000 KMS and a diesel heater but from the pics it looks a bit beat up compared to this one. Plus I don't think I can get it to a dealer to have the battery checked!

 

[JoeS]

Boffingham, this is the desirable SE Premium, with Nav and all the bells and whistles - and includes the CHAdeMO quick charge port.

If a dealer is selling it, you can make the Remote a condition of purchase. If you want to buy a new Remote, Mitsu will charge you over $800 for the unit and programming it (if they even have it). Without a Remote it is not possible to have the car plugged in and charging and run the heater or aircon at the same time. BTW, if you can find a used Remote you can program it yourself to mate with the car (there's a how-to post on this forum).

Make sure that your smart phone can pair with the car - I have two i-MiEV Premiums, one can, the other can't.

Has the dealer told you what the condition of the battery is?

 

[Boffingham]

Hi JoeS,

Yes it is the SE and seems to be well cared for. The dealer is no longer associated with Mitsubishi and the salesman has no idea about EVs. He shrugged his shoulders about the remote. LOL!

He agreed about me taking it for a battery test but is very disinterested otherwise. I have seen a few 2012 SE online but not so much in later years. Was it dropped?

Also the battery warmer was an included option, any thoughts on what that is?
Thanks!

 

[JoeS]

Yes it is the SE and seems to be well cared for. The dealer is no longer associated with Mitsubishi and the salesman has no idea about EVs. He shrugged his shoulders about the remote. LOL!

Well, that just knocked $2K off their asking price! :evil:

He agreed about me taking it for a battery test but is very disinterested otherwise. I have seen a few 2012 SE online but not so much in later years. Was it dropped?

In Canada I think there was a 2013 model (but not in the US). The follow-on 2014 and 2016 years were consolidated into one model with alloy wheels and CHAdeMO and improved LEV50N battery, with a Nav screen option for 2016.

Also the battery warmer was an included option, any thoughts on what that is?!

All it does is automatically route the cabin air into the battery compartment where there is also a fan to move the air through it. You can hear the fan test which goes "whooosh" for a few seconds when you plug in the car (cars without the battery heating option or CHAdeMO do not have a fan inside the battery compartment). For those of us in hot climates, there is a way of manually manipulating the HVAC duct control to force cool air into the battery.

Some things to consider for you - some musings -

Have you given a lot of thought for your use case for an electric car? What will you be using it for, and what will your typical daily driving needs be? What's the furthest you'll want to go? This car will quickly become your primary driver and you'll not be happy driving an ICE vehicle! Can you tolerate a 40%-50% range reduction in winter (not just the cold and running the heater, but also rolling resistance increases when driving in rain or snow)? So much hinges on the condition of the battery at this point in time - Mitsubishi warranty does not cover battery degradation, only outright failure, and this car has less than a year to go. The 2017 i-MiEV was very attractive as it also had the LEV50N batteries which were introduced in very late 2012!

When we purchased our first i-MiEV in 2012 it quickly became the primary car in the family, and was followed by two more used i=MiEVs. Our present two i-MiEVs continue as our daily drivers and are true workhorses, but are now becoming more limited not only because of some range degradation but also something I call "charging station availability anxiety" as EVs and SAE/CCS charging get more popular: for example, Electrify America has announced discontinuing CHAdeMO support (but not in California where they are required to provide it). I can no longer rely on randomly popping into a CHAdeMO charging station for an immediate ten-minute charge while on the way to a more-distant location. In our case, we have a backup with the older Tesla available for longer trips (otherwise, it sits untouched with a cover over it in the garage as neither my wife nor I like driving it in town). In our case, and as much as we love our i-MiEVs, I'm afraid that when our i-MiEV battery depletes to the point where its range becomes unusable (as happened at around 90K miles to the fellow who bought my first i-MiEV- he could barely go 20 miles and turtle showed up every time he floored the accelerator and he did not want to fight with Mitsubishi and got a good price from Carvana) it will be replaced by one of the more-modern EVs with ~250mile range) rather than my attempting to rebuild the battery... although I still might have access to a battery out of a 2016 i-MiEV.. hmmm ...

 

[Boffingham]

Hi JoeS

All very good points, we have an ICE SUV which carries us on adventures on the weekend, I also have a truck which I will gladly be selling in the next few months as it is no longer required. I want a cheap EV for the numerous store and mall runs we do during the week. I am also considering a 2014-2016 Smart electric which come up occasionally on the market. They have excellent reviews for being dependable and have a better heating system than the i-Miev. The range is about the same and again its just about getting around and doing errands, not planning a 200 KM trip.

I love the i-Miev for its good engineering, and quirky looks and maybe a 2014-2017 would be a better choice if they can be found.

 

[Boffingham]

Well I put an offer on the 2012 with 54, 000 KMs. I had the battery tested at a Mitsu dealer and they said it passed, I asked for specifics but all the guy at the counter would say is that a report is only generated if there is a problem and they found none. So I am still in the dark about any degradation. I am going back on Monday to try to talk to the technician that ran the tests. I also bought the vlinker FD+ and will try OBDzero on the car to see what it discovers. The dealer has agreed to let me have the car for half a day so I should be able to run some tests. The car is an SE and has the nicer audio system with NAV but I could not get it to pair with my phone and there was no manual to refer to. Does any have the manual for that? Thanks!

 

[JoeS]

Boffingham, I thought I had responded to your previous post regarding the Smart Electric - I liked it, recognized its limitations (especially the lack of cargo volume), but it does not have dcfc which has become more imperative in my area as accessibility to public J1772 stations has become even more unpredictable than dcfc.

By all means talk with the technician about the actual battery capacity - don't forget, Mitsubishi DOES NOT warrant battery capacity, so their party line is that as long as the cells are balanced and the car can fully charge, it's ok. Look for a specific number in ampere-hours (Ah). I hope your OBDZero works out.

The car you are looking at is the top-of-the-line SE Premium, with Nav and CHAdeMO.

I would ask the dealer about pairing your phone to the car - I own two identical SE Premium i-MiEVs, and one of them does not enable phone pairing - if they fix it, could you ask them what they did ("just in case you need to do it yourself")?

Again, I hope the capacity is ok (i.e., >~35Ah), and do let us know how things turn out.

 

[Boffingham]

So I went back to the dealer and using OBDZero and a dongle I was able to pull some info from the car. Not sure how to attach a picture but in the OBD screen the App has the capacity at 38.0 Ah @100 SoC, the Voltage was at 374.8 with SoC 1 and 2 at 63%

The cells screen showed all the cells between 3.95 and 3.96 volts but the cell temp ranged from 19 to 20 celsius.

I did not drive the car before taking the readings

 

[JoeS]

Boffingham, that capacity looks good to me, and the cells are balanced. Don't worry about the temperatures, as there is at least one sensor that's close to something warm and always shows a bit high. I've seen close to 40°C without the battery fan kicking in.

You should have no problem with your everyday driving, and I see plenty of CHAdeMO stations around Ottawa so you figure that any trip you take you can plan on stopping to charge after about 65km (40 miles), as you always want to leave yourself a range safety margin, even though this car can probably easily do 50 miles (80km) in decent weather. Such charging stops can be short - just enough for a bathroom break and a cup of coffee - as the charger will stop at 80% anyway and a higher charge is usually a waste of time.

During my trips through Canada I found the Flo charging network to be very popular and never once failed me (I used CHAdeMO a lot with my Tesla in areas before Superchargers penetrated), so you might consider signing up with them and getting a card if you purchase the car.

Now, does this car have a Remote, as I would consider that essential in your winter? Try to knock USD$1000 off the price of the car if it doesn't... and then you can shop around and try to find a used Remote as you can reprogram it yourself to pair with your car - contact me with a PM if you need one as I know of one for ~USD$200 and I see there's one on eBay for USD$325/offer.

Hey, I just saw you actually bought it - congratulations!

Glad you were able to pair the phone to the car.

 

[Boffingham]

Hi JoeS, I was a little worried about the 38Ah, thinking it was too low. But we really will only drive the car 50 KMs max per day. We are going to start with the 110 volt charger at home as this is our first EV and we want to see how it goes before getting an electrician in to McGyver a 220 connection.

Not sure the remote would be a benefit with a 110V connection as wouldn't the traction battery just get drained? Please correct me if I am wrong.

I probably will just put a small 110V car warmer in the Miev and run it for 15 minutes on very cold days to make sure it is all toasty.
I remember my Dad had one 30 years ago that had a timer and would come on 20 minutes before he left for work in the morning....maybe they still exist.

Thanks for the comments, how do I post a pic once I get the car?

Many thanks!

 

[JoeS]

... how do I post a pic once I get the car?...

There are a number of alternatives - if you can get onto a website that allows you to post pictures that are externally accessible, just put it there and link to it by enclosing the URL with the Img brackets, available in the options above the text as you write a post. Here's a thread devoted to that topic -

http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1626

 

[Boffingham]

Here are some links to the OBDZero screen grabs I got

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DP7NqZ2Q13BNlX1LJ0uUlD5vXPxeTZrq/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DSd0PrJP1FV53-XrZ5K7Ms5s-_0j6fDh/view?usp=sharing

 

[JoeS]

Here are some links to the OBDZero screen grabs I got
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DP7NqZ2Q13BNlX1LJ0uUlD5vXPxeTZrq/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DSd0PrJP1FV53-XrZ5K7Ms5s-_0j6fDh/view?usp=sharing

Great, thank you. The Img feature doesn't work with google, but no worries as the pictures come right up when clicking on them.

Which OBD adapter are you using with OBDZero?

If I may, I'd like to use these two screenshots for the time being as examples in that App thread I'm trying to get going.

When will you be receiving your 'new' car?