iMiEV vs. Competition

[JoeS]

Took a brief test drive in the Kia Soul EV (they were just delivered today). My initial impression is that it's a nicely-executed FWD vehicle, larger than the i-MiEV and a decent turning radius but not as tight as our i-MiEV. Performance similar to the i-MiEV with perhaps a bit less delay when you stomp on the accelerator. 27kWh battery, 6.6kW charger, and CHAdeMO standard. Forced-air blower for the battery compartment is located under the rear deck. D and B drive modes, regen quite similar to the i-MiEV, and an ECO mode which affects both D and B. Since it has creep like the i-MiEV, you can't bring it to a full stop with one pedal (like you can with the BMW i3 or Tesla S). Enough settings to play with even though there is no zero regen setting, but N is easily engaged. I didn't like the fact that I had to press the button on the shift lever to engage B (I think that button should be reserved for on R and P). It has three levels of steering sensitivity and seemed to handle just fine. Rear volume with the back seats down is virtually identical to the i-MiEV, but THE FLOOR IS NOT FLAT and I should take a tape measure to check the max package height as it seems less than the i-MiEV. Nice storage compartment under the rear deck. Good instrumentation showing kWh/mi consumption and Range remaining and power gauge (I kinda prefer our red needle instead of discrete segments) and fuel gauge and the speedometer has a graphic (segments with no numbers) in addition to the digital gauge whose purpose I didn't understand and there's another useless and distracting graphic showing how the energy is flowing (similar to a Prius). In my brief test drive I couldn't figure out the key combinations to hit as I wanted to see both my trip miles and trip energy consumption simultaneously. Seats 5. Interface for all modern media toys, including remote control over charging and climate using a smartphone. Oh, and it has an annoying outside beeper when you put it into reverse which can't be disabled (new nanny-state requirement?).

With 27kWh and CHAdeMO, a few-hundred mile-day trips in the Soul EV would not be unreasonable.

They have two versions: EV and EV+. EV+ has leather seats and a few more bells and whistles, but the basic EV version is quite well equipped already. The EV basic MSRP is $33.7K and EV+ is $36.76K and I think they tack on a destination charge as well. What was uncool is that the dealer is tacking on another $3K markup on top of that for both versions.

Although I may wish for the Soul EV's 27kWh battery pack for the few times I make longer trips, unless I needed five seats there isn't enough to distinguish this from our tried-and-proven i-MiEV to make me want to switch. Love my i-MiEV (which for some reason feels roomier inside than so many larger cars)!

 

[fjpod]

I saw a Tesla S on display today in NYC. $111,000. 85 kw battery. Cool looking car but I bumped my head getting in and out. The imiev is just so much more practical for the price.

 

[NeilBlanchard]

Joe, thanks for the overview of the Soul EV.

We just signed a lease on a Leaf yesterday, and I would love to be able get an eGolf when they come out. Another option is to get a plugin Prius, so we can sell our two ICE cars.

 

[alohart]

The Kia Soul EV is fairly porky at 3286 lb., 450-500 lb. heavier than the ICE versions. Its largish 27 kWh battery pack is part of the reason. Until battery cell power density increases, it's difficult to build a light EV with 100+ mile range.

But this isn't a car that I could consider since it's apparently available only in California at this time. It might be just another compliance car.

 

[iwatson]

In reading this thread, one thing stands out! Most i-Miev owners don't consider the Chevy Volt to be an EV. For most there was an overwhelming desire to have a battery only vehicle. In describing other vehicles that were considered in addition to the i-Miev, all other electrics are mentioned but not the Volt.

When I purchased my Volt I realized that the majority of my miles were commuting to work and back (11 miles each way), but occasionally I would travel beyond the range of a pure electric car. For this reason I chose the Volt. It is not a hybrid but a full electric EV that can switch to hybrid mode when needed. When commuting to work and back, which is what I do most of the time, it's 40 miles of range means my commute is gas free, however I've also taken my Volt on road trips of 300-400 miles away from home (Only 3 trips out of town in 2+ years of ownership). I prefer operating on electric power and it actually bothers me when I burn gas. Instead of range anxiety, in the Volt you have gas anxiety. But it's sure nice to know that you've got back-up when you need it. If the day ever comes when I can own an affordable EV with 200-250 miles of range and quick charge stations every 75 miles I will probably give up the ICE completely. I use gas so infrequently in Volt (Just 3 gallons last month) that I knew my wife could use a pure BEV since she's a housewife and actually drives less than I do each day. She was dead set against an EV! I took her twice to test drive a Leaf and she was disinterested. Tesla is way beyond what these common folk can afford. But I just happened upon a used i-Miev with 8300 miles on it. Dealer was asking $15,000 for it but it had had absolutely no interested prospects in 6 months on their lot. The little guy had been owned by a Fedex Vice-president who traded it in on a Volt. I Lowballed the dealer offering $10,500 on the condition that we take the car on a 3 day extended test drive. During the extended test drive my wife had the option to call off the deal.

She fell in love! As I suspected the car fills her needs completely.

Compared to the Volt, The i-miev is an economy car while the Volt is a luxury car. The Volt is gee-whiz electronics to the i-miev's Toyota Yaris basic. Leather seats in The Volt, basic cloth in the i-miev. But the i-miev suites my Wife's sensible nature....She's not into gee-whiz electronics, she likes small, she likes easy to park, plus we both like the i-Miev's egress/ingress. Much easier to get in and out of...seats sit up taller giving her a better visibility. If she ever needs to do a road trip, we'll just switch cars.

Together these two vehicles have us down to just 3 gallons of gas a month between the two of us. My hatred for burning gas runs so deep, I just purchased an EGo Lithium battery powered push mower to replace our gas powered Murray.

 

[JoeS]

iwatson, thank you for your very reasoned perspective regarding the Volt, and delighted that your wife has adopted the i-MiEV (my wife loves 'hers'!). I have a friend who had the second Volt sold in California - a single person who consistently racks up high mileages, and for whom an i-MiEV simply would not be suitable. Well, a couple of weeks ago she abandoned the Volt and took delivery of a brand-new Tesla MS85 - yes, her car has the new sensors! She needs to take some almost-300-mile business trips into non-supercharger territory shortly, so we'll see how her adventure pans out.

The Volt is a breakthrough vehicle, and one of its byproducts IMO is that it has opened the eyes of many people as to exactly what type of driving they really do and how well a vehicle with a battery-only range of 'only' 40 miles can satisfy much of their needs. That said, I also recognize that in today's hectic and overscheduled world there is no room for uncertainty and the fossil-fuel backup of a Volt or i3 ReX means one less thing to worry about, especially in some of the sprawling urban areas of this country.

Since we opened up the discussion to non-BEVs, personally, I think Mitsubishi blew it by not already bringing the Outlander PHEV into this market.

 

[alohart]

however I've also taken my Volt on road trips of 300-400 miles away from home (Only 3 trips out of town in 2+ years of ownership).

If that were my situation, I would have purchased a Leaf and rented an ICE (hybrid, if possible) for my occasional road trips just as I rent a pickup truck occasionally rather than owning one. Dragging around the considerable extra weight and increasing my maintenance responsibilities due to the ICE (big deal for me) would have eliminated the Volt from my consideration. The Volt is neither a great EV (only 40 miles of range with the same capacity battery pack as the i-MiEV, although part of this is due to the Volt using less of its available capacity) nor a great hybrid (its highway fuel efficiency using premium gasoline is considerably worse than that of a Prius using regular gasoline). I suspect that the updated Volt will be better in both respects due to a more efficient ICE, but the likely additional complexity (e.g., turbo) still puts me off (I value the KISS principle).

However, for those who frequently travel beyond 40 miles daily, the Volt seems like a good compromise vehicle. By most accounts, Volt owners are extremely satisfied with their cars. So I applaud GM for taking the risk to build such a vehicle. It's too bad that GM has been so reluctant to use Voltec in an SUV or pickup truck where significant fuel savings would be possible. But with fuel prices remaining low now and likely for some time to come due to fracking, I fear that BEV's and even electrified ICE vehicles will not be as popular as they should be due to their higher purchase prices.

 

[iwatson]

The Volt is neither a great EV (only 40 miles of range with the same capacity battery pack as the i-MiEV, although part of this is due to the Volt using less of its available capacity) nor a great hybrid (its highway fuel efficiency using premium gasoline is considerably worse than that of a Prius using regular gasoline).

I totally disagree. The Volt is a great car! Finest car I've ever owned! You describe that it's not a great EV and it's not a great Hybrid, But you fail to realize that because it can do both It's a fantastic car. The Prius can not drive me to work and back day in and day out using no gasoline. The Leaf can not take me on a 300 mile road trip (unless I don't mind stopping and hunting down a recharge station and killing hours refueling). Can you not appreciate the "Jack of all trades, master of none" concept?

My Volt has averaged 151 mpg over it's lifetime. Commuting to work and back it uses only 3 gallons of gas on average per month. With a 9 gallon tank, I only put gas in about every 3 months. On the road it averages 42 mpg (similar to a prius' highway mpgh figures)

The point of my post was to compare it to my wife's i-miev which we also love. The i-miev is great, but if we had to limit ourselves to one car, I'd have to keep the Volt and let the i-miev go.

 

[alohart]

The Leaf can not take me on a 300 mile road trip (unless I don't mind stopping and hunting down a recharge station and killing hours refueling).

One of my points was that to buy any vehicle based on its ability to do something fairly rare (e.g., your experience of only 3 such trips in 2+ years) might not be the best decision when a rental car could deal with these unusual situations and at a lower total cost as well. So maybe you could have instead purchased a Leaf which would have been much more efficient in your work commute, and you could have rented a car for your very occasional road trips. Or maybe that would not have worked for you.

Many Americans seem to make their vehicle purchase decisions based on relatively rare use cases (e.g., pickup truck when the need to carry large things is rare or a 4-wheel-drive vehicle when this capability is rarely needed) and end up purchasing a much less efficient vehicle as a result.

Can you not appreciate the "Jack of all trades, master of none" concept?

I can, but it's the "master of none" that I try to avoid.

Commuting to work and back it uses only 3 gallons of gas on average per month.

So that's about 100 miles/month. It sounds like a Leaf's range of about twice that of the Volt's electric range would be sufficient for your normal driving. When a Volt owner emphasizes how little gasoline he uses, I always wonder why he didn't buy a BEV instead considering that it would usually be sufficient. But then I'm more willing to make something work even if there might be a bit of inconvenience involved on occasion.

The i-miev is great, but if we had to limit ourselves to one car, I'd have to keep the Volt and let the i-miev go.

I have an i-MiEV at our Honolulu apartment because the distance we drive on our island is almost always within the i-MiEV's range. I can't do ICE maintenance in my condo parking space, and I'm rarely happy with a mechanic's work, so a BEV is ideal.

I have the most fuel-efficient non-plug-in hybrid ever made, a Honda Insight, at our Uppsala, Sweden, apartment because we use it for long road trips through Europe where its 70-80 mpg highway fuel consumption rate is ideal for very expensive European gasoline, although a Tesla Model S would almost suffice if I were willing to pay so much money for such a heavy, relatively inefficient BEV. I can perform the ICE maintenance in my Uppsala garage, but I don't enjoy doing it. This will be the last ICE vehicle I will ever buy even if I have to change my daily routine to make a pure BEV work. I realize that not everyone feels so strongly.

I'm a big proponent of using the best tool for the job. Maybe your normal usage is just on the edge of a Leaf's capability, so a Volt is the best tool for the job.

 

[Don]

Many Americans seem to make their vehicle purchase decisions based on relatively rare use cases (e.g., pickup truck when the need to carry large things is rare or a 4-wheel-drive vehicle when this capability is rarely needed) and end up purchasing a much less efficient vehicle as a result.

Truer words were never spoken!!

I have been considering a 2016 Volt when the all new version comes out, but it's certainly not a done deal - I think my current mix of vehicles probably makes more sense and the Volt might not be able to replace anything

I have a '94 Miata that I bought used in 1999. It has 60,000 miles on it now largely because it's only driven on nice days with the top down. The OEM ragtop is still like new. We did make one long trip in it in 2003 when we drove it most of the length of Route 66. I've had it 15 years and only put 45,000 miles on it. At the current rate of use, it will easily last me another 15 years

We have a 2003 Mazda Protégé 5 wagon with 67K on it which currently serves as the car which 'does everything the iMiEV can't' - We drive it to Illinois once a year to visit the in-laws, regularly tow several different trailers with it, haul large objects (from 16' lumber to kayaks) on it's roof rack and it seats 5, which the iMiEV (and the Volt) doesn't. I'm not so sure a Volt would be a good choice to replace the Mazda. It currently gets started once or twice a month. At the rate we're using it, it's probably also got another 15 years of reliable use left in it

My brother and I share ownership of a '93 Dodge with the Cummins diesel which does everything the Protégé can't do - It gets started even less often and will probably also be around for many more years

95% of the time, the vehicle of choice, based on what we need to use it for, is the iMiEV - It would be really hard to replace it and it surely wouldn't be anything with a gas tank. We don't need any more range than it has and we seldom charge it fully. Currently, we're averaging around 9,000 miles per year, so it (hopefully) has another 10 or 12 years left in it too

If I was to get a 2016 Volt, it certainly wouldn't be a new one since I would get zip from the current tax credit - I'd wait until 2018 or 19 and pick up a used one coming off lease

Don

 

[Vike]

Watching this back and forth over the "EV-ness" of the Volt brings back many unhappy memories from the car's early days. EVers got pretty snooty about the Volt being just a hybrid with a big battery (which it isn't, that description applying more accurately to the Prius Plug-in or Ford's Energi models), and GM unhelpfully withheld some mechanical details inconsistent with their "it's not an engine, it's a range-extending generator" narrative until the product was close to shipping (I still remember EVers gloating when GM had to admit that the engine was mechanically linked to the drivetrain during high-speed cruising, though I'm still not sure what they were being smug about). GM only added fuel to the fire by refusing to categorize the Volt as a PHEV and insisting on a clumsy and confusing EREV designation of their own imagining (something that has only gotten more confusing with the rollout of the BMW i3 "EV with REx", a configuration more genuinely EREV than Voltec).

For my part, I've never found any of this technical hair-splitting very helpful. I have great respect for the Volt's drivetrain technology, and I agree with iwatson that there's real value in the Volt's "electric when you want it, gas when you need it" proposition. Yes, the ICE and its supporting infrastructure do take up precious space (more on that in a bit) and add weight that reduces EV range; yes, hauling around a depleted i-MiEV-sized battery does cut into MPG when running on gas (and again, more in a bit on the consequences for space). But please - aside from the bizarre case of the i3 REx (which is not a hybrid in any meaningful sense), there are no other plug-in hybrids that can go 40 miles on a charge, and there are plenty of hybrids that get less than 40 MPG on the highway. And the Volt's 40 mile EV range is 100% usable, unlike the full range of BEVs (e.g., while I realize the i-MiEV's EPA est. 62-mi range is conservative, I don't take mine on planned 60-mile round trips because my state has no public charging infrastructure and I've little taste for the risk of waiting for a tow or begging to plug in behind the 7-Eleven). Alohart's grudging "Maybe your normal usage is just on the edge of a LEAF's capability" really underplays just how unattractive it is to run any BEV anywhere NEAR the edge of its capability (excepting those wild and crazy battery-killing turtle lovers out there).

The reality is that the Voltec drivetrain makes it possible for many people to consider owning an EV that might not otherwise be comfortable with a car that can't go 100 miles without spending the better part of the day hooked up to a charger. There are many emergencies for which this would be intolerable, and many situations in which it would be seriously inconvenient. It's grossly unfair to compare these practical concerns with the delusions of people who commute in SUVs because they might someday need to tow a boat they haven't bought yet to some lake in the woods that exists only in their imagination.

The flip side of this (and you may have seen some foreshadowing in my referring to the Voltec drivetrain instead of the Volt car) is that while GM has delivered an interesting and unique set of tradeoffs and capabilities with Voltec, they're only deploying it in two vehicles (the Chevy Volt and Cadillac ELR) of disappointingly limited utility. I won't go on about the ELR, except to note that for the price it doesn't appear to compete successfully on any level with Tesla's Model S (an observation which sales figures bear out, despite the overwhelming advantage of Cadillac's distribution network). But the Volt, while more affordable and somewhat more sensibly configured than its gold-plated cousin, is still a badly compromised passenger car. Jamming a full-sized ICE, with its attendant hardware and fuel tank, AND a 16 kWh battery pack into the compact Cruze chassis makes for a tight fit, and any i-MiEV owner can see at a glance that Chevy wasn't particularly imaginative in making the best use of the limited footprint. The trunk is actually SMALLER than our car's (quite the shortcoming when you consider that the i-MiEV doesn't appear to have any trunk at all), and photographs don't really do those rear bucket seats justice - while headroom and legroom are tolerable, the central battery tunnel chews up hip room, making the Volt closer to a 2+2 than a true 4-passenger vehicle. While the hatchback form factor is normally offered as an option for buyers interested in more flexibility, it was apparently necessary for the Volt in order to have any trunk space at all.

I was very disappointed to realize that the Volt cannot replace our 2005 Prius, something that we're looking to do in the next year or two. The Prius is both our road trip car and our "nice" car when it's our turn to drive to an event with friends; the Volt can only perform the first function with seats folded down in a strictly two+luggage configuration, and is not desirable for the second function at all (those with friends who are younger and/or svelte dancer types may feel differently). Apart from these showstoppers, I'll note (and second) iwatson's observation that the i-MiEV has superior ingress/egress, though I'd add that on this score the Volt is quite mediocre, also faring quite badly compared to, e.g., the Prius.

GM's been tight-lipped so far about the 2016 Volt, releasing only an enigmatic closeup of the rear hatch, but executive comments and spy shots of camouflaged vehicles on test tracks have not been encouraging. It's still sort of based on the Cruze, albeit the next-gen version (so perhaps more properly the Cruze's replacement - whatever), and it's impossible to tell from exterior shots whether or not passenger or cargo space have been improved. The limited comments of GM execs suggest that we're likely to see improved performance, EV range, and/or hybrid MPG, but they have said nothing to acknowledge the current Volt's limited utility, implying by omission that this has not been something they've addressed for 2016. What we certainly don't see is anything like the intriguing MPV5 concept that GM teased a few years back. Right now, the continuing delay of Mitsubishi's Outlander PHEV rollout to the U.S. may be the only thing saving GM the huge embarrassment of seeing Volt sales trounced by a PHEV crossover from an automotive gnat with a tiny fraction of GM's resources.

 

[jray3]

What we certainly don't see is anything like the intriguing MPV5 concept that GM teased a few years back.

Yeah the MPV5 would've been a straightforward and sensible evolution of the Volt concept, but I'm still waiting for the Chrysler Voyager III ! (Only this time with an electric pod car and REX engine in the passenger tail section....)
http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/tag/chrysler-voyager-iii/

iwatson- I agree with you that the Volt has turned out to be a fine automobile that occupies a unique niche and is luxurious in comparison to the i-MiEV. When it came time to spend my money in 2011, and preferring to 'buy and hold' rather than lease, I simply could not trust GM to flawlessly execute what's arguably the most complex vehicle design ever, based upon basic shortcomings with my last GM hybrid- a Saturn VUE that both under-utilized and under-managed the battery pack. GM's history with moving parts, whether seat motors, window motors, or...dare I say it now... ignition switches, might've led me to a lease had they offered a very attractive lease, but not a purchase.

 

[JoeS]

I took a test drive in a VW e-Golf while my Mitti used their L2 charging station (I had to pay for its use). I started to write up my impressions but after reading the review on PlugInCars I see that I was led astray by the salesman, dammit. For example, he said there was only a D setting with no regeneration and a B setting for regeneration, whereas it turns out there are a number of progressive regen settings that I didn't realize existed when I drove it (you slap the shift lever sideways). Another example is that he said the three Modes merely limited the vehicle's top speed, whereas in reality they also limit delivered power (as one would expect). I was disappointed that it doesn't have the European paddles for regen.

It's got a 7.2kW charger and DCQC CCS is standard. EPA range 83 miles.

Creep was interesting in that after driving when you came to a stop at a traffic light it did not creep, yet when you first started the car it would creep, and I think it also would creep again if the shift lever was operated when stopped.

Anyway, what I really LIKED about the e-Golf is that it has a ZERO -REGEN in their normal D mode, which is great for highway driving. Their B mode is good but the retardation is not nearly as powerful as a Tesla or i3. This is the first electric car I've driven with zero regen and I really like that feature!

The rest of the car was a good solid but un-dramatic vehicle indistinguishable from a regular VW but containing lots of modern bells and whistles and cupholders and armrests and stuff that I guess people expect. it drove nicely and did everything just fine but felt more cramped than our i-MiEV, the space in the back looked small, and the back seats don't fold down flat. We can certainly stick taller things in back in our i-MiEV. I'd better not say much more because this VW Golf series just won a bunch of awards for something. Oh, and getting in and out of our i-MiEV is easier!

Here's a much better overview than what I can provide (I should have read it before I went to the dealer):
http://www.plugincars.com/volkswagen-electric-e-golf-blue-e-motion

 

[danpatgal]

... it drove nicely and did everything just fine but felt more cramped than our i-MiEV, the space in the back looked small, and the back seats don't fold down flat.

Thanks Joe for your review. I sat in the e-Golf at the NAIAS, and agree that it's a little more cramped feeling for headroom in the back, but otherwise felt a little better for passenger space than our iMiev; cargo space might be worse (but I guess not fewer cubic feet) since the e-Golf's seats don't fold completely flat. But, I could be glossing over all that since I like just about everything else on the e-Golf over the iMiev (well, the price and lack of CCS [compared to CHAdeMO] chargers ... though that's not really the car's fault). We'll see if they actually sell it sometime soon near me and can get the price down a little bit.

 

[PV1]

(well, the price and lack of CCS [compared to CHAdeMO] chargers ... though that's not really the car's fault).

Then there's this email I just got from ChargePoint:

ChargePoint has teamed up with BMW and Volkswagen to create express charging corridors along heavily-traveled routes on the East and West Coasts. We’ve set a goal of installing nearly 100 DC fast chargers by the end of this year.

We already offer you EV charging at home, at work, around town and out of town. And with our DC fast charging initiatives, you can go farther with your EV.

The express charging corridors will be along the most heavily populated and trafficked regions on Interstate 95 on the east coast from Boston to D.C., and on the west coast covering and connecting the metro areas of Portland, San Francisco, Los Angeles and San Diego. These corridors will provide EV drivers with the freedom to go farther and enjoy all the benefits of driving an EV over long distances.

The stations will be publicly available to all drivers and can be accessed with your ChargePoint card or with the mobile app.

All the fast chargers will have the SAE Combo connector used by both BMW and Volkswagen, and many will also have CHAdeMO connectors. We’ll often co-locate the DC fast chargers with Level 2 ChargePoint stations which can charge all EVs.

Don’t live near the coasts? Don’t worry. We’re building out fast chargers across the country and there are over 110 fast chargers on the ChargePoint network today.

Keep checking out the ChargePoint map to see stations near you and let us know where you need more EV charging.


Drive Happier,
Team ChargePoint