iMiEV vs. Competition

[ZsoZso]

Honestly I was in love with the LEAF from the moment it was announced back in 2010, I even wanted to sign up in 2011 for the first batch of pre-orders, but it turned out they did not accept it from Canada. Then I signed up to be notified when it gets released in Canada, then I got an email on a Saturday when they opened pre-orders in Canada -- but by the time I saw my email at 2pm, it was already closed, i.e. I was too late. Turned out, they only allocated 100 vehicles to the Canadian market in 2011, and 60 of those were reserved for city fleets and such and there we 40 people faster than me (all of those got booked within 2 hours of the announcement by 11am).

However, once it was finally available in 2012, I was very disappointed by Nissan's Canadian pricing, which was $41K for base model, $6K above the US price (the Canadian dollar was actually slightly stronger than the US one at that time). At the same time the i-Miev and the Volt were both priced in Canada roughly the same as in the US market, which meant that the i-Miev cost 30% less than the LEAF and I just could not justify that kind of price difference.

So that's why I bought the i-Miev in Sept. 2012. As a slap in my face, Nissan dropped the Canadian price of the Leaf in January 2013 by $5K.

I would love to have a Tesla model S, but that is far out of my budget.

 

[MLucas]

I was in love with the Leaf until I saw how Nissan handled the battery fiasco, I had already purchased my i-MiEV by then but I was sure glad I didn't buy the Leaf. I don't live in an area that is affected by the heat but I don't like giving my money to companies that don't play fair. So far I've seen Mitsubishi handle their battery claims very much differently. Now that I've had my i-MiEV almost two years, I'm more than satisfied and I don't think about those other EVs anymore.

 

[Zelenec]

I-MiEV is certainly not the best, biggest, fastest, best looking ... When I bought it for 16k€, I'm sure it offered the most for the price.

I choose it because of:
- reasonable price
- the most flexible and accessible space for passengers and baggage
- it's optimal range for my needs
- Its top speed equaling the maximum allowed on our highways
- perfect size for my needs
- its appearance

 

[carnut1100]

Here in Aus it's iMiev or Leaf....there is no other EV option despite the ICE versions of all the US options being sold here...
When iMiev came out it was over $50k...about $53k on road.
I drove it and worked out 20 years plus to pay back for me.

Leaf came out at $57k with more room and more toys which pretty well killed iMiev sales here.

Now Leaf Price is down to $40k and Mitsubishi have stopped importing iMiev and are clearing unsold stock and below $30k.
I got a 2010 demonstrator under $20k.

If there was not such a Price difreference I would have bought Leaf as the fifth seat would be useful to me and the Leaf has heater recharg. Whereas the Aus market iMiev doesn't....and unlike most Aussies I do live where I get ice and snow on my car in winter and it has to live outside.

Tesla is coming here this year sometime.
If I ever win the lottery I'm getting one.......the S is gorgeous but an X would be great, plenty of grunt and traction for towing the boat and getting up my driveway in winter!

 

[JoeS]

Had a chance to drive a BMW i3 yesterday. Glad to see another purpose-built EV and not a conversion. Very decent acceleration and handling, as one should expect from a BMW. Don would like the single-pedal control with good (but not superb) regeneration.

A significant negative for me was that the car had only one Drive mode (at least that's what the demonstrator said and that's all I saw). Coasting was possible but "N" is difficult to engage while driving as one has to awkwardly reach around the steering wheel to twist a lever on the end of a stalk. Certainly far less convenient than merely flipping our iMiEV's shift lever into "N" from "D". Taking the i3 from "N" to "D" will take some skill to avoid the regen lurch (that's also a problem with Teslas).

I'll reserve judgement on the forward-opening rear doors, but note that with the large amount of traffic into and out of the back seats that people were often reversing the order of front/rear door closings, which doesn't work. Wonder what's to prevent dings when they don't mesh?

With only a 22kWh pack I asked if the option of a battery range-extender had been considered, recognizing that a small gasoline-engined range extender is planned. No answer. I think that only time will tell how this develops, as unfortunately so many companies are now jumping onto the plug-in hybrid bandwagon.

Spent too little time in it to study its instrumentation.

Biggest surprise to me was the small total volume in the back with the back seats down: this thing is over a foot longer and 7.5" wider than our iMiEV and yet seemed to have significantly less space back there than we do, and especially the cargo height seemed restricted. Oh, and it's a four-seater, just like an iMiEV.

IMO the most revolutionary aspect of this vehicle is its carbon-fibre construction. The rest of it is merely a gussied-up modern car with lots of frills for a significant amount of money.

Love my i-MiEV!

 

[DonDakin]

I have not seen the BMW i3 up close yet but i went online and priced the top end model with the range extender. It came out to almost 53K. I think the range extender brings the car up to about 3000 lbs also.

I was a little surprised. looking at the shopping list in the car and thinking about the value I don't know if the car will make it on its own merit. I can see it being bought because of the name. But wouldn't a 60 kWh tesla base model with super charging added be a better buy if you had the money ?


Just my 2cents....

Don.......

 

[DaveMiller]

Thank you for your BMW I3 first impressions. I visited the BMW web site and left confused about charging the I3. They claim a 3 hour charge time, but simple math in the back of my head thinks charging a 22 KWH battery in that time period would strain most home power feeds. Worse yet in their video on this page, (http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicles/i/i3/2013/showroom/charging.html ) it shows a 12 gauge wire being installed. The charger appears to not use a standard SAE J1772 charging connector either. I will stick with my I-Miev and AeroVironment's Level 2 Plug-In EVSE on a 40 amp circuit.

Dave
Black 2012 I-Miev and Black 2012 Prius (love them both)

 

[sandange]

Just came from the car show and briefly checked out the BMW I3.

The car was swarmed by many curious enthusiasts and I did not have too much time to look closely.
I did not get to test drive one, but here is my take....

At first glance -
The car is nicely finished inside and out with a attractive body styling and the door configuration worked well.

I did not like the tablet style gauge screens, or the large concave dashboard top and could see it as a junk and dust collector, Nor did I like the front bucket seats with the very high backs with the built in head rests. These blocked any view for the rear passengers, and made the interior feel claustrophobic as well as obstructing drivers view. The trunk space was adequate
I found the pricing to be over the top (starting at 45k) but most people expect that for the brand.
Nice EV

 

[JoeS]

Drove a Fiat 500e yesterday. It's only a California compliance car and when I asked the salesman what the situation is for an out-of-state buyer (I have a friend in Washington whose wife really wants one) he said they will not sell to an out-of-state resident and the warranty would be void if the car is subsequently registered out-of-state. Drove our iMiEV to the Fiat dealership with my wife so the salesman knew from whence we were coming.

Don't know what those (Italian?) designers did, but that little car is universally considered "cute" - especially by the ladies. The interior has a distinguishing and attractive retro-look, yet with many modern bells and whistles, with which it is well-loaded as standard equipment - including a backup distance-to-obstruction detection system.

Fiat supposedly put in a lot of minor mods to improve the aerodynamics of the electric version over their standard 500: perforated front and rear air dams, roof spoiler, aero mirrors, etc. EPA combined rated range is 87 compared to our iMiEVs 62. It has a 24kWh battery compared to our 16kWh, and a 6.6kW charger. No QuickCharge or option for one. Small storage compartment under the aft floor for storing the L1 EVSE and tire airpump.

Drove the car for about a ten-minute run around the block. Handles great, excellent acceleration, good seating position and ergonomics, and I like the way they can slide down the headrests to improve the rear vision.

On paper, it's a couple of inches wider and couple of inches longer than our iMiEV, yet it looks and feels like a much smaller car. Guess the front-wheel-drivetrain takes away quite a bit of the usable interior space. The rear volume with the back seats down is 30.1in^3 compared to the iMiEVs 50.4in^3, and the back seats don't quite fold down flat.

The instruments are in some ways better than the iMiEV as they provide more detailed trip information and a %SoC number in addition to the fuel gauge graphic. The power/regen display was a disappointment as it just shows discrete jumps rather than a smooth ribbon on other cars or needle like in the iMiEV. I didn't explore all the instrumentation features.

The only options are two interior color schemes, a bunch of attractive external colors, and a sunroof. Price without sunroof was around $33.5K, with (the salesman said) attractive leasing options.

OK, I liked the Fiat 500e, so what's wrong with it?

Shifting is simply accomplished via a string of pushbuttons: P-R-N-D
No problem with that, but there is no ECO or B mode nor any way of inducing regeneration.

BY FAR, my biggest gripe:

Fiat BLEW IT when it comes to REGENERATION.

The car has only one Drive mode, and it has negligible regen. Not only that, the brake system seems to have minimal regeneration before the actual brakes take hold, but I would need to drive it more to see if this is indeed the case.

Shifting from D to N while driving is easy with the button pushing (unlike the BMW i3), but because of the negligible regen in D it accomplishes almost nothing.

I am REALLY disappointed that, in trying to make the Fiat 500e behave like a 'normal' car, Fiat did not emphasize and take advantage of one of electric drive's most outstanding distinguishing features: regeneration. BOO-HISS.

For this reason (and no QuickCharge), I would not buy this car, darn it!

When (if) our iMiEV comes back on the market this year, it really won't have any competition to a discerning EV buyer, especially at its pricepoint. I would only wish that the iMiEV's battery pack was larger, but having CHAdeMO as standard equipment partially makes up for it. Access to public charging stations is now getting unreliable as they're getting clogged (primarily by PHEVs) so we're becoming more and more hesitant to drive outside our single-charge radius from home (our Mitsi does not have CHAdeMO).

 

[Mart]

News is the smart ED will be available nationwide by February. Price point is slightly higher, but smart seems to have put it's hope on leasing. Even with a slightly higher range, you have to give up the back seats and cargo carrying ability. This still seems like the most likely direct competitor to the i-MiEV outside the compliance market.

 

[JoeS]

News is the smart ED will be available nationwide by February. Price point is slightly higher, but smart seems to have put it's hope on leasing. Even with a slightly higher range, you have to give up the back seats and cargo carrying ability. This still seems like the most likely direct competitor to the i-MiEV outside the compliance market.

Agree with that, and the Smart's paddle-regen option is an excellent inexpensive addition. The iMiEV still has them beat on price and interior accommodations, but if you live in a big city with parking problems, it certainly is a great solution.

Perhaps under this "competition" thread we should include car-sharing services? They are becoming extremely popular around here, as more and more people completely abandon vehicle ownership. Had a presentation by an all-EV service at the last EAASV meeting - they use ActiveEs and also promoted the i3: https://us.drive-now.com/

 

[DallasiMiEV]

I-MiEV is certainly not the best, biggest, fastest, best looking ... When I bought it for 16k€, I'm sure it offered the most for the price.

I choose it because of:
- reasonable price
- the most flexible and accessible space for passengers and baggage
- it's optimal range for my needs
- Its top speed equaling the maximum allowed on our highways
- perfect size for my needs
- its appearance

I agree with this post. In Dallas, the Leaf and the i are the only available full EVs, and the price difference between the fully loaded SE i and the base model Leaf is ridiculous. I got my i for more than $10K cheaper. Not even close.

I like your list. Here's mine: Reasons I chose the i-MiEV over the Leaf
- Price (over $10K difference? fuhgetaboutit)
- The i felt bigger inside, front and back
- More cargo room
- easier navigation/cd display
- much more intuitive gear shift (My wife and I hated the Leaf's dial-shifter)
- The look. The Leaf's bug-eyed headlights are ghastly
- Position of the charger port. Leaf, are you kidding me? Same with the Volt
- Then they threw in for free leather seats and tint, and I was sold.

 

[PV1]

The LEAF's charging port would work for those that park nose-in, but DallasiMiEV sounds like me, someone who prefers to back into parking spaces, or at least be nose-out if you find two back to back spots open.

There are certain angles that make the LEAF's headlights work for me, but from behind the headlights looking forward, I don't care for them. I understand they are designed like that to direct air around the mirrors to reduce noise, but unless they have a notch in them to cause whistling, Nissan should have left the headlights flush.

I find the i-MiEV is much easier to see out of and judge where the car is. I drove a Juke the other day, which felt just like driving the LEAF, except for the gas engine. I was on top of the center lines because it felt like I was going to fall off the edge of the road. My i-MiEV is much easier to drive, and I've gotten pretty good at wheeling along a curb to park and be 3" away. The i-MiEV also accelerates faster and has more interior room than both the Juke and LEAF.

 

[JoeS]

Found another reason NOT to get the Fiat 500e: it has an Auto Park feature which automatically locks the wheels whenever the driver exits the car. What this means is that it is impossible to put the car into Neutral and push it if you're by yourself! This was discovered by a brand-new owner whose 500e died on him inside a parking garage (after 60 miles!) and he couldn't push it out and the tow truck couldn't get into the garage. This is a 'safety' feature? How many of us would realize this when taking a test drive in the car? That car ended up needing to have the starter switch AND battery pack replaced!

 

[FiddlerJohn]

Found another reason NOT to get the Fiat 500e: it has an Auto Park feature which automatically locks the wheels whenever the driver exits the car. What this means is that it is impossible to put the car into Neutral and push it if you're by yourself! This was discovered by a brand-new owner whose 500e died on him inside a parking garage (after 60 miles!) and he couldn't push it out and the tow truck couldn't get into the garage. This is a 'safety' feature? How many of us would realize this when taking a test drive in the car? That car ended up needing to have the starter switch AND battery pack replaced!

JoeS: I like the way you think, but you are a little harsh since you can "simply" manually disable the 'safety' feature. I like this 'safety' feature, but I dislike the manual disable from the Fiat owner's manual:

In order to move the vehicle in cases where the transmission will not shift out of PARK (such as a dead battery),
a Manual Park Release is available:
• To prevent the vehicle from rolling unintentionally, firmly apply the parking brake.
• If possible, raise the front driver’s side of the vehicle to provide access to the transmission.
• Working from underneath the vehicle, remove the black rubber plug from the front of the Park module (a black canister mounted on the front of the transmission).
• Using a T25 driver bit, rotate the Manual Park Release shaft (located just behind the rubber plug) clockwise, at least 20 turns, to release the Park mechanism. The vehicle is now out of PARK and can be moved.

 

[JoeS]

FiddlerJohn, thanks for finding the workaround for that Fiat 500e lockout - hmmm, hadn't thought of a simple dead battery (12v or HV?) as another cause.

In my past life I have had several occasions whereby I needed to push a dead car off the road, most memorably an Austin Healey with wet (Lucas) ignition after going through a large puddle on a dark and stormy night on a very busy highway. Whereas I agree that this 'safety' feature would perhaps be of value to our ever-more-clueless driving populace, implementing Fiat's workaround in an emergency is laughable.

All right, maybe this won't disqualify a Fiat 500e from potentially being in my stable (in addition to our iMiEV), but until they get QuickCharge and fix their regen, they're still off my list - no matter how much my wife thinks it's "sooo cute"!

 

[user 1835]

the Smart's paddle-regen option is an excellent inexpensive addition. The iMiEV still has them beat on price and interior accommodations, but if you live in a big city with parking problems, it certainly is a great solution.

The Smart ED regen paddles are an extra cost (I think it was like $250) option. I did not choose these paddles, as the brake peddle can be modulated to choose the regen amount, namely, press the brake slightly to get 25% (1/4 of the maximum available) regen, and heavier to get further regen. It is trivial to get maximum regen, and Smart provides a Smart Phone capable web dashboard that shows you how your most recent drive did in terms of eco score of acceleration, coasting and braking (regen). I max out the braking eco to 100%, but never get eco on acceleration, as it's too much fun to stomp on the throttle with a small car and powerful electric motor!

As for interior, iMiEV does not have the interior options of the Smart. My Smart is black with silver "tridion" stripes on outside, red and black interior on inside, with clear roof panel. To each their own...

 

[Zelenec]

As for interior, iMiEV does not have the interior options of the Smart. My Smart is black with silver "tridion" stripes on outside, red and black interior on inside, with clear roof panel. To each their own...

as Smart hasn't the interior options of I-miev either. These two models are not comparable, so they really don't compete. Thank you, SmartElectricDrive to present us your EV. I'm really happy, that you found a perfect vehicle for your needs. But here on this forum nobody really cares about a tiny car double priced/seat. Still you are very welcome to correct our statements about Smart ED, when needed.

 

[Don]

The Smart ED regen paddles are an extra cost (I think it was like $250) option. I did not choose these paddles, as the brake peddle can be modulated to choose the regen amount, namely, press the brake slightly to get 25% (1/4 of the maximum available) regen, and heavier to get further regen.

Our iMiEV's have the same brake pedal modulation of regen, but as you press further into the brake pedal, you're also getting some unwanted friction braking, like it or not, which is why most of us I think would really, REALLY like to have the option of the steering wheel paddles - About the only feature offered on the Smart that I wish I could have on my car. If I could go to the dealer and have them installed for $500, I'd JUMP at the chance

Don

 

[carnut1100]

I have the earlier model I which doesn't have the brake modulation of regeneration...the only way I can control it is our the car in B and modulate with the throttle.
Had a look at the Outlander PHEV the other day and it has paddle regeneration control.
Going to drive it when my I goes in to have the spare key programed to it.