i-MiEV and Renewable Energy

[fjpod]

The system in the picture I posted was originally going to be leased, but the "line" was over 100 homes, so they decided to buy it. It cost about $27K, while the lease deal they had was about $1,400 down and ~$58/month for 20 years for their electricity. They were paying ~$70 to $180 per month, plus ~$1K per year for heating oil to heat their water....

Thanks Neil, that's very helpful. My lease proposal from Solar City doesn't offer a purchase option, but it gives some figures for the system (6.86 kw) if it was purchased. Unfortunately, the figures are confusing. It lists $34,300 as the "system cost"; $25,382 as "out of pocket"; and $14,267 as "Net cost". I have no idea what each of those represents so I'll have to ask the salesperson. If I borrow the lump sum option of $9260 and repay it at 5% for 20 years, my total cost would be $14,666. The only benefit I see from purchasing (from a different vendor) is that I could sell the system at any time, which would allow me to upgrade before the 20 years are up.

Sorry to be a downer...but the keyword in your post is SALESPERSON. Beware. Leasing solar is like buying snake oil. I have yet to find a company, anyone, who would settle to make less money on your solar installation than you would make. It's not about buying the materials at a reasonable price and paying for an honest days labor. It's all about the installer cashing in on your government incentives and your potential savings on power. And so...the technology goes underutilized by the little guy.

 

[JoeS]

And let's not forget the counterattack already launched by the utilities which allows them to 'recover' some of the 'revenue' they're 'losing':

Increasing monthly fees (buried in otherwise PV-friendly legislation):
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com...hines-in-californias-2013-legislative-session

Stumbling blocks (alleging dirty electricity) if you dare have a battery backup system:
http://grist.org/news/california-utilities-say-no-batteries-for-you/
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...lar-power-sparks-backlash-from-utilities.html
http://www.pv-magazine.com/news/det...y-stored-solar-power_100012982/#axzz2hVsWLdG9

Still need to take a photo of my iMiEV next to my 6.6kW ground-mounted array...

Separate topics we might consider for this Forum: be how to rig an iMiEV emergency charging system using our home solar as well as how to harvest our EV's stored energy when the grid goes down (I've done both, crudely)... hmmm, probably already addressed on the myNissanLeaf forum.

 

[Don]

My lease proposal from Solar City doesn't offer a purchase option, but it gives some figures for the system (6.86 kw) if it was purchased. Unfortunately, the figures are confusing. It lists $34,300 as the "system cost"; $25,382 as "out of pocket"; and $14,267 as "Net cost". I have no idea what each of those represents so I'll have to ask the salesperson.

I don't think they want you to know

As I pointed out earlier, a complete 10.6 Kw system (minus the racks) can be bought for less than $20K and the you (not the lessor) qualify for the government rebates, so whatever numbers they are quoting you indicate a huge profit for them. If their 'system cost' for a 6.86 Kw system is over $34K, then their cost for the 10.6 Kw system would be over $40K, or twice what it actually costs

Don

 

[fjpod]

Yeah, utilities are now moving away from buying your power at retail...they are starting to gain regulations to buy it from you wholesale.

So, it's basically the Wild West with solar. Everybody is trying to get one over on the consumer.

 

[offgridQLD]

Charging Imiev from 4kw of PV completely off grid home through a 6kw continuous 48v dc / 240vAC inverter feed by 63kwh 48v battery bank. The system was sized to run the house and workshop. Now we have the Imiev's additional load I have purchased a additional 4kw of pv and a 2nd MPPT charge controller to go on the workshop roof for a total of 8kw of pv. Though haven't had time to install the additional PV yet. A typical day we charge around 7kwh -10kwh back into the Imiev + run the house/workshop loads. In my location (Brisbane Australia) 4kw of pv will produce 20kwh or so in a day.

Imiev on charge in the workshop, 4kw house pv in the background, small outbuilding with dual doors middle left is the power room containing battery's, inverter, charge controllers.

Display screen on 6kw 48vDC/240vAC house inverter running house bass idle loads (140w) + 240v imiev charger 2200w, house battery's full and on float.

kurt

 

[Don]

Beautiful!

I think you have everyman's dream - Completely off-grid and independent of the power company . . . . and their rules and fees and especially their stupid, profit driven decisions

Here, Mississippi Power just hiked everyone's rates by almost 20% so they can build a new lignite coal burning power plant upstate - The power from the new plant will never be used by those folks along the coast who are footing the bill to build it. Luckily, our power where I live comes from a Co-Op and we don't pay the higher rate, even though our Co-Op gets much of it's power From Mississippi Power

Just what the world needs - Another coal burning power plant being built in 2013 which will probably still be polluting the air 50 years from now

If I was a young man (so the costs and benefits could be spread over a lifetime) knowing what I know now . . . . .

Don

 

[fjpod]

now that is impressive.

 

[NeilBlanchard]

Hi Kurt,

Charging Imiev from 4kw of PV completely off grid home through a 6kw continuous 48v dc / 240vAC inverter feed by 63kwh 48v battery bank. The system was sized to run the house and workshop. Now we have the Imiev's additional load I have purchased a additional 4kw of pv and a 2nd MPPT charge controller to go on the workshop roof for a total of 8kw of pv. Though haven't had time to install the additional PV yet. A typical day we charge around 7kwh -10kwh back into the Imiev + run the house/workshop loads. In my location (Brisbane Australia) 4kw of pv will produce 20kwh or so in a day.

Imiev on charge in the workshop, 4kw house pv in the background, small outbuilding with dual doors middle left is the power room containing battery's, inverter, charge controllers.

Display screen on 6kw 48vDC/240vAC house inverter running house bass idle loads (140w) + 240v imiev charger 2200w, house battery's full and on float.

kurt

Can you post the basic specs for the battery system and inverter, please? My brother wants to build a small off-grid system for emergencies, and to charge one of their EV's.

 

[PV1]

Just what the world needs - Another coal burning power plant being built in 2013 which will probably still be polluting the air 50 years from now

If I was a young man (so the costs and benefits could be spread over a lifetime) knowing what I know now . . . . .

Don

The utility just shut down two coal plants near me. This was an honest surprise, as where I live is Coal Country. Too bad western PA doesn't have the will in renewables like eastern PA does.

My system is making between 30-50 kWh on sunny/overcast days. Our meter is only 10 kWh ahead of where it was when the system was brought online. Draining and refilling the hot tub took a big hit.

 

[Llecentaur]

Realty makes sense. I would find it even more clever to be able to recuperate the existing batteries for storage of the panels while upgrading the one in the car.

Any news on that front, batteries that would have same voltage tresholds, maybe same chemistry but a higher energy density ? I am thinking of the famous rule that says performance doubles every year while price halves.

Therefore we have had at least four years on the original batteries,mothers should be something similar out there yielding for example to a 24 KW capacity while costing not more than 5000 USD ?

 

[offgridQLD]

"I am thinking of the famous rule that says performance doubles every year while price halves. Therefore we have had at least four years on the original batteries,mothers should be something similar out there yielding for example to a 24 KW capacity while costing not more than 5000 USD ?"

There is another saying ....tell him his dreaming :lol:

Seriously battery tec is slow baby steps for some time yet. The batteries we have now have been around for a long time (longer than the general public have been using them) They have just become more mainstream thanks to the big public uptake of gadgets like mobile phones and other toys that use them. Think about it we are still using lead acid in many aplications...how long has that been around for

You would be very lucky to find a aftermarket lithium cell of the identical dimensions in every aspect to the Imiev cells .

Though I keep my fingers crossed to

Kurt

 

[genec]

I have a lease with SolarCity. It saves me about $20/month plus I get to plug in my Miev and drive on sunlight.
It's all good.

 

[PV1]

Sure is.

I'd like a license plate frame or something, "Solar power at its finest", but somebody I know with a Model S already has one. Perhaps the i-MiEV wins the award of "Most Responsible use of Solar Power"?