How many miles should first bar last on low mile battery?

[Jiminy]

I have a new iMiEV that I received about a week and a half ago. It had 57 miles on it when I got it but was produced in March 2012 and sat at a dealer in Washington state for over a year. Upon full charge on Level 2 overnight I am getting 2.7 miles out of the first bar in very soft driving. I get 5 miles from the second bar but the third disappears when I turn the car back on after sitting an hour (this is after driving about 8 miles for the first two bars).

Is it normal to see three bars disappear for 8 very soft miles? Is 2.7 miles normal from the first bar? I am suspecting reduced capacity but wanted to get the collective opinion first. The car performs well with no other anomalies. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Jim

 

[BillThompsonMIEV]

I also live in San Antonio. I have owned mine since August 2012. After a full charge, I usually get more miles from the first bar (sometimes as many as 9 miles). I can typically drive about 60 miles and have about 5 or 6 bars remaining. If you want, PM me with your e-mail and/or phone number and we can talk. I also have some word documents with data that might interest you. Bill Thompson.

 

[JoeS]

...Upon full charge on Level 2 overnight I am getting 2.7 miles out of the first bar in very soft driving. I get 5 miles from the second bar but the third disappears when I turn the car back on after sitting an hour (this is after driving about 8 miles for the first two bars).
Is it normal to see three bars disappear for 8 very soft miles? Is 2.7 miles normal from the first bar? I am suspecting reduced capacity but wanted to get the collective opinion first. The car performs well with no other anomalies. Any ideas? Thanks, Jim

Jim, congratulations on your new i-MiEV!

What you are seeing is definitely NOT normal, although it depends on the definition of "soft driving", as driving softly at 70mph would indeed give you such readings. Typically without excessive speed or climbs, you can figure 4-5miles/bar, with the first bar usually taking more miles before it drops.

I would go to your nearest Mitsu dealer and complain a bit and ask them to do a test of your traction pack which should include a capacity test.

If you are at all technically inclined, see the CaniOn threads for a bluetooth OBDII device and Android app, which will show you the status of each of the 88 cells in your battery pack.

 

[Malm]

If you do 8 miles with the second, you should do the same or more with the first. The second values 7,5% of SoC, the first values 8% of SoC. So, your i-MiEV is not charging to 100% SoC, maybe only 96% (i know, in a full charge SoC should be always 100%, but i-MiEV have a strange way to get its SoC). Maybe this results of unbalanced cells. Some i-MiEVs that stand still for many months became unbalanced. Charging to 100%, every day, will fix it, after some time (Months). The second hypothesis, not so probable, is that it has 4% degradation, and don't charges 17,4 kWh from 5,5% to 100%. Only 16,8 and don't charge the last 0,6 kWh, so it will not show 100% but 96%. But if it has so little mileage, this second is very improbable.

"the third disappears when I turn the car back on after sitting an hour (this is after driving about 8 miles for the first two bars)."- It happens to me all the time. I have a explanation for this, i-MiEV uses battery temperature to calculate his SoC. After charging and driving, battery temperature will rise, and after sitting an hour it recalculates his SoC, taking 5% of SoC - 1 bar (third bar values 5%). My i-MiEV, sometimes, even give me 5% SoC extra, after sitting one hour, i think it happens when temperature of the batteries go lower. This procedure (adding or taking 5% SoC) only happens when the car stand still for sometime. Happens to me all the time.

I know, very strange things i´m telling you, some don't make sense. But, remember, i'm the guy
from the future, and i've seen things that you can even imagine. If i was the canary, i shouldn´t be here anymore.

 

[HParkEV]

Something is definitely wrong. I get about 4 miles out of the first bar (heater and AC off), even without much regard for efficient driving.

My car was also bought very 'old' as it was a February 2012 production that sat around for more than a year.

I guess to try to balance the battery - use it regularly, charging to 100% each time it gets down to below 8 bars and see if the situation improves after a few weeks.

 

[Jiminy]

Thanks for all of the replies!

Last week I started a ticket with Mitsubishi through my local dealer. Initially, the car would not reach 16 bars upon a full charge. I ran it down to two bars and charged to full and then got 16 bars but the 16th went away before I left the driveway. Well, my dealer cleared a few low battery codes and did a capacity test, none of which are in writing. They think the battery is salvageable and asked if I could run it down to two bars 4-5 times and then charge overnight to full. The battery has improved a little and today's test is what I put in the first post. I have an appt for another capacity test at my local dealer on Wednesday afternoon.

If I had to guess from what I've read here I'd say that this brand new or NOS car has a little capacity loss. It is an interesting dilemma since I would expect a perfect battery from a new car yet I already know the battery was abused.

Jim

 

[fjpod]

I would do a few full charges and see what happens over a few weeks. What you describe is not normal. I often get 9 miles on my first pip with gentle flat driving, stop and go.

I would also open a dialogue with MM.

 

[Jiminy]

I have done now 6 discharges down to 2 bars or less and then full recharges overnight on a Level 2 EVSE. The charge indicator has shown more bars and for longer but far less range on the first bar than what y'all have reported seeing in your own cars.

I hate burning up 300 miles just for satisfying Mitsubishi's request for cycles but at least I'm learning how far I can drive at highway speeds with a (most likely) compromised battery.

I don't own an Android device but I'd sure like to see the state of the battery without having to go to the dealer. Maybe I need to search craiglist for something cheap to put Canion on.

Jim

 

[Jiminy]

Very good information Malm. Thank You. -Jim

..."the third disappears when I turn the car back on after sitting an hour (this is after driving about 8 miles for the first two bars)."- It happens to me all the time. I have a explanation for this, i-MiEV uses battery temperature to calculate his SoC. After charging and driving, battery temperature will rise, and after sitting an hour it recalculates his SoC, taking 5% of SoC - 1 bar (third bar values 5%). My i-MiEV, sometimes, even give me 5% SoC extra, after sitting one hour, i think it happens when temperature of the batteries go lower. This procedure (adding or taking 5% SoC) only happens when the car stand still for sometime. Happens to me all the time...quote]

 

[Don]

The charge indicator has shown more bars and for longer but far less range on the first bar than what y'all have reported seeing in your own cars.

. . . . but at least I'm learning how far I can drive at highway speeds with a (most likely) compromised battery.

The reports everyone is giving you of 6 to 8 miles on the first bar are NOT at 'highway speeds'

If we can get 6 to 7 miles or so driving at 30 to 35 mph, then about half that would be about normal 'at highway speeds' - Your battery may not be as bad as you first thought

Don

 

[tonymil]

I haven't seen anyone talk about whether the initial miles are flat, uphill or downhill. Keeping a moderate speed uphill will still drop that first bar quickly. Because the first bar seems to be very variable to me, I generally look at when I lose the second bar. In the summertime I lose the second bar after about 11 to 12 miles of driving. In the winter, with the seat heater and heater/blower on I've been getting around 8.5 to 10 miles for the first two bars over the same route.

 

[Jiminy]

Don,

The 2.7 miles I saw this morning for the first battery bar was at 30-35 miles per hour with a very light throttle foot, mostly flat terrain (maybe even a 20-30 ft drop) with no HVAC. Pretty much as soft as it gets. -Jim

The reports everyone is giving you of 6 to 8 miles on the first bar are NOT at 'highway speeds' If we can get 6 to 7 miles or so driving at 30 to 35 mph, then about half that would be about normal 'at highway speeds' - Your battery may not be as bad as you first thought

 

[offgridQLD]

Yes I agree the miles you are covering before the first bar on your fuel gauge disappears apears to be significantly low considering how the car is being driven and the terrain.

I really only see two ways to find out whats going on. One take the car into Mitsubishi service center and have them test the battery. Two purchase a android phone/tablet and OBD blue tooth scanner and run Canion app to see whats going on.

Trying to diagnose whats happening using just the fuel gauge bars and distance traveled is a stab in the dark guessing game at best.

Kurt.

 

[Jiminy]

After the dealer tested my battery last week they told me that they could not produce any sort of hard copy of the results. I did not believe this coming from an automotive service background with another make of car. We could always produce a printout of some sort. To try to disprove this I called the other dealers in town and asked service writers if they could produce a printout of my fault codes if there were any and they all said no, the scan machine has no print function and no connection to the internet to send me a file of codes. Has anyone here been provided with hard copy of a battery capacity test from their Mitsubishi dealer?

My dealer wants me to be present when we run the tests tomorrow and I will stay for that. I will try to take some good clear pictures with my Nokia phone which has a nice camera. If I am unsatisfied with the depth of information I see I will consider buying the setup to run Canion.

 

[Jiminy]

One thing I want to mention is that I really like this car. It has something to it that the Leaf doesn't have though I do like the Leaf a lot, too. I hope to own this car for a very long time. The potential battery issue I am having has nothing to do with Mitsubishi but rather was from abuse from the dealer I bought the car from. According to my service writer, the selling dealer ran the battery down and then let it sit as determined by the trouble codes present on the first scan. When I received the car it had 57 miles on it.

If you are reading this and are considering purchasing a new, old stock 2012 iMiEV then I would suggest making a full battery scan part of the deal. Be present for the scan and also make sure the car charges fully. I assumed my car would have a perfect battery but it was perhaps a bad assumption.

Jim

 

[Barbagris]

Has anyone here been provided with hard copy of a battery capacity test from their Mitsubishi dealer?

tonymil put some results, although there is little info.

I had my 8 month service/battery calibration and here is the report:

http://i.imgur.com/nW5bQUp.jpg

I'm trying to figure out how much capacity I've lost. From what I gather, the key figure is "Battery Current Capacity: 46.1 Ah".

I have seen some reports of Peugeot, (Euro clon), I think Mitsu have more better info than Peugeot.

 

[Jiminy]

Well I took my car into the dealer this afternoon to get a first hand look at a battery diagnostic screens but the service writer surprised me and said that all they could do is just check for fault codes. I reminded him that he told me the other day that after I went down to 2 bars and back up 4-5 times we would look specifically at the battery today but he said they couldn't access the battery stuff without talking to Mitsubishi first to get specs of what Mitsubishi wanted to see. I am thinking that Mitsubishi doesn't want me to be present for this. The service writer said I would need to leave the car for up to a week! I said that was ridiculous and asked to speak with the service manager but he was out on an errand. Well, about then the iMiEV tech who would be doing the work walked up and I asked him directly what amount of time would be required to get the data that Mitsubishi needed to make a decision and he said "about one day". SO, I said that I wanted to get this going sooner rather than later and didn't want to drop the car off next Monday (right before Thanksgiving) like the service writer previously suggested. The writer and tech discussed in front of me what jobs they had lined up tomorrow and decided that since the iMiEV stuff involved a series of quick tests and a lot of waiting in between them that he could get my car in tomorrow and start the process. I went ahead and left the car and walked back to work which is only 5 minutes away since I didn't want to bring the car in at 7 the next morning (gotta get my beauty rest you know). Hopefully, I can get some good info tomorrow or Friday. I did tell them that I don't want to leave the car there for very long, especially if they get what they need to get me a new battery. We'll see.

Jim

 

[offgridQLD]

Keep us posted, sure dose make you wonder if they actually have a clue how or even the ability / equipment to test the traction pack.The one week time frame was most likely suggested to get to to give up and be on your way.

Anyhow good luck with it all

Kurt

 

[PV1]

I asked my dealer to do a battery check (as part of the first year service), which they said they would. After picking the car back up, they said that the battery was good, but didn't have any paperwork or indication that a capacity test was done. I guess they don't do this anymore?

 

[Jiminy]

If I was in the business of warrantying an expensive battery pack I would keep track of battery capacity as much as possible. The requirement may have gone away for owners to bring the cars in once a year for a battery check but I would think that they'd want to look to see if anything was outta whack if the car came in for service.