GENTLEMEN. I need help.

[Mievo]

JoeS

I have been hounding the dealer; the poor, poor, service manager who has no idea how any of this works; for actual capacity information from the tech.
I am now at my car round about 12:30 a.m. I should be asleep but I am screwing off. The car's been on ChargePoint charger accepting 3 kilowatt hours per hour, from the dashed lines , 0 range; Turtle mode. I wanted to discharge the battery so I can charge it on the free 240-volt charger overnight and not leave it sitting with a full battery for very long. ChargePoint reports five-and-a-half kilowatt-hours stuffed in and the car shows half a battery.

I am a hypermiler by Nature my old Ford Escort used to return 42 miles per gallon even driven like a maniac, however my old Subaru required hypermiling often because it had a hole in fuel tank and the fuel filler neck. I am all too aware how to drive a car very efficiently; utilizing neutral coasting, engine off coasting, and ginger driving techniques.

The only measurement that I have is extrapolation of the efficiency from this forum which reports averages from 75% to 91%. The techs and engineer's did not say nothing was wrong, but they did say they will not cover battery degradation. (MY ASS THEY WON'T)

Mitsubishi says their warranty doesn't cover battery degradation, then again neither does my job. There will be in the near future job sites where I will have to drive 35 - 40 miles along interstate highway is the only viable route. I've been good about leaving enough time where I do not need to speed or hurry to get to work. 60 miles per hour is my top speed to getting anywhere in the mornings. I will admit, after work is another story entirely.

I have been interested in weight reduction and performance increase since at least 3 years before I got the vehicle. Just the other day it rained and I was able to get the tires spinning enough to smoke; good fun that .

Getting very close to being able to afford a better OBD2 Bluetooth scanner so that at least canion will be able to give me the basic information. EVbatmon we'll have to wait.

None of this is to say that I don't like the car I truly love the car and driving it. Never in my driving career have I been so unstressed getting to and from places; with respect to the close calls. There are lots of evgo charging stations nearby and in the Orlando area. I've had to use the Nissan dealers very often however ,they are in conveniently-placed sometimes.

I get around a lot. 80 miles per day is not unheard of for me. Being able to grab a quick charge and get up and go in 10 minutes is a common occurrence for me; I've had the car a month, and I have well over 1,200 miles on it so far.

In other news, I have disabled the pedestrian noise generator, and fully intend to rip it out. It is SOO quiet now.

 

[Mievo]

As an update, I have been shifted to Warehouse duties so I have a consistent place to go to and from. This enables me to behave with the heavy traffic going to work and drive like an ass on the way home.

On this Saturday June 24th, I did a partial range test. I kept with Road speeds taking back roads from Sanford to Orlando downtown. I drove around Orlando briefly, and then headed back home. I wasn't so conscious on Range testing when I left however the driving habit of the slower Backroads on a Saturday caused my range remaining gauge to show the same range for 20 miles. Eventually the guessometer caught up with my driving habits and the mileage declined quickly after that.
I've got 4 bars left at an estimated 22 miles, and I drove just a hair over 45 miles. Peak speed hit was 50 miles per hour downhill. Average speed 30 miles per hour.

Sound like a normal drive with all four windows down?
My tires were pumped to 42 PSI last month. I haven't really messed with it since, but this is Florida and it's been consistently over 90°F for weeks so I haven't been actively checking the tires.

P.S. I also disconnected the noise generator and pulled up the muffler material. So happy with the motor noise.

 

[JoeS]

mievo, for continuity I moved you post back in with your previous posts.

Your distances and readings sound normal to me, as does the Range Remaining (RR) display's response. Unlike the Leaf's GOM, I like to refer to our RR as very predictable since it's algorithm is well-established by now. You probably noticed that RR takes a ~10% hit when you turn on the a/c and it takes a ~20% hit when you turn on the heater.

Understand about disconnecting the AVAS - did you simply unplug it underneath the right fender (and then taped the ends to protect them)?

You said "... pulled up the muffler material...", could you explain?

 

[Don]

I've got 4 bars left at an estimated 22 miles, and I drove just a hair over 45 miles. Peak speed hit was 50 miles per hour downhill. Average speed 30 miles per hour

I agree with Joe - That sounds pretty normal to me

22 RR with 4 bars equates to 44 miles for 8 bars (half tank) and therefore, 88 miles for a full charge, which is a good number - About what I would expect for a 30 mph average trip. It appears on this charge, you're not getting the full 88 miles, but that's because somewhere along the way you didn't drive as efficiently as you did from 8 bars down to 4 bars - The 22 RR proves that you did very well during that portion of the trip or you would not have 22 RR with 4 bars remaining

Irregardless, for sure you're not going to get any warranty satisfaction based on what you're reporting here because the car is operating very close to what is expected, even for a new car

You keep mentioning what the car 'must do' with regards to your future job locations and that really has nothing to do with the car - It may not be the 'right' car for someone who needs to go as far and as fast as it seems you need to go. It probably wasn't the right car for those needs when it was brand spanking new and if you need it to go farther, faster than it's capable of going, you're either going to have to drive slower, recharge more often or use some other mode of transportation for those longer trips. At any rate, IMO, it's time to quit blaming the car because it appears it's doing about what's expected

Don

 

[Mievo]

When I refer to Muffler material, I mean the carpeted foam and the insulated steel lid over the motor assembly.

As far as traveling to job sites I don't do that anymore. I'm being groomed to be the warehouse manager; not as illustrious as implied it's a small Warehouse with four tight Bays, end I am for the most part the only one inside.
Round trip of 35 miles, consistently. I play nice going to work, and then I'm darting in and out of traffic on alternating back roads as Google Maps indicates with red, green, and orange lines.
With the more consistent time of start and distance, I can account for such emergencies as forgetting to plug in the car. There is an evgo quick-charge station around the corner that I have had to use, and arrived to work just on time.

In nearly two months of ownership, I have accrued a mere 2270 miles, but I intend to step up my plug game, and rack up more miles in less time.


P.S. if anyone is really curious how the car sounds truly, but are concerned about taking the car apart I'd be more than happy to post a video on YouTube.

 

[Mievo]

Unlike the Leaf's GOM, I like to refer to our RR as very predictable since it's algorithm is well-established by now. You probably noticed that RR takes a ~10% hit when you turn on the a/c and it takes a ~20% hit when you turn on the heater.

I see a 25% hit with AC and a 50% hit with the heater. I use the heater to drain the battery before plugging in at night.

 

[sandange]

I see a 25% hit with AC and a 50% hit with the heater.

That's probably right if you're running them at max constantly.
But in real world they don't run full out once desired temperature is reached

I use the heater to drain the battery before plugging in at night.

You only need to do this when you want to do a battery bottom balancing charging uninterrupted to full, - about once a month

 

[JoeS]

Unlike the Leaf's GOM, I like to refer to our RR as very predictable since it's algorithm is well-established by now. You probably noticed that RR takes a ~10% hit when you turn on the a/c and it takes a ~20% hit when you turn on the heater.

I see a 25% hit with AC and a 50% hit with the heater. I use the heater to drain the battery before plugging in at night.

Mievo, uh, I'm confused:

1) Are you saying that when you turn on the AC or heater your RR takes a 25% and 50% hit, respectively? I've never seen anything even remotely close to this!

2) What the heck are you doing exercising and draining your battery? Why add additional cycles??? :evil:

 

[jray3]

Agreed- no need to ever use the heater to drain a battery. "memory effect' is for all practical purposes nonexistent in these batteries, and excess cycling will certainly cost more in battery service life and energy use than any possible benefit. My pack remains very well balanced though normal driving and recharging, which inevitably includes an excursion below two bars with a full recharge once per month or so. The original maintenance schedule involved an annual drain/recharge at the dealership to measure battery capacity and balance, but Mitsu cancelled that advice and extended our warranty after a couple years of experience.

 

[Don]

I think the 25% and 50% is probably a miscalculation on his part - Lord knows, there have already been plenty of those in this thread . . . . what's one more?

Don

 

[Mievo]

Okay much ire.

First, I discharge the battery when it's under half, but not low. It will charge full in 4 hours on the apartments 240V charger, so I plug in late and low. I don't want it sitting for 10-12 hours fully charged; more on weekends.

As far as using the patio 120V; 1) it costs, 2) it's not usually available to me. My neighbors get home before me.

Next; the ~25% A/C and ~50% heater penalty is guestimated from the change in range remaining. Not kidding, 25% for ac, 40-50% heater. I watch 54 RR go to 40-45. With the heater I'll sometimes see 30 turn to 15.

If I have to use AC, I use auto and turn the temp two clicks down after full blast to cool vents. I'd like to be able to post pics/vids, but have no computer at the moment.

 

[JoeS]

Okay much ire.

Nah, just giving you a friendly hard time ... around here, you have to be pretty precise with numbers.

First, I discharge the battery when it's under half, but not low. It will charge full in 4 hours on the apartments 240V charger, so I plug in late and low. I don't want it sitting for 10-12 hours fully charged; more on weekends.

While it's admirable that you don't want the car sitting fully charged, I can't help but wonder if there's a different scheme you might use, even if it involves getting up very early in the morning to start charging. I don't remember, but I guess you don't have a Remote, but how about rigging a mechanical timer?
http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=129&p=2910#p2910
The point is to avoid unnecessarily exercising the battery.

Next; the ~25% A/C and ~50% heater penalty is guestimated from the change in range remaining. Not kidding, 25% for ac, 40-50% heater. I watch 54 RR go to 40-45. With the heater I'll sometimes see 30 turn to 15.

Tell you what, get a notepad and write exactly what the readings are: specifically, RR before and after AC or heater are turned on without the MAX button depressed, for various levels of charge. Take a few data points and convert to percentages and report back.

 

[Don]

I tested ours today. 91 degree day, 5 mile trip to the grocery, A/C top knob set about 3/4 ths of the way to cool, fan speed set near max (one or two clicks down) and bottom knob on recirculate - The same way the controls are usually set on an average day, quite comfortable in the car

Turning the A/C off, RR was 31 miles, turning it back on, RR was 27. This is pretty normal for us - I have always said that A/C usage costs us between 10 and 15% range, depending on the climate

True, heater use is much worse - I would estimate that at between 30 and 35% in typical usage

Don

 

[Mievo]

Challenge accepted. I will report all numbers come morning.

 

[Don]

I did a slow, full recharge overnight. RR this morning is 74, with the A/C on it's 62 . Loss of 15% - Almost exactly the same as the previous 31/27 comparison

Don

 

[Jasmin]

Newbie to the miev, so curious about the full charge issue. I don't use my car every day, as I work at different sites and sometimes public transport is more convenient. So, what the deal with charging? I've been leaving the car full in case I need it in unforeseen circumstances. Is this risking harm to the battery, and if so what's the reccomended practice?

 

[Don]

It's best not to leave is set fully charged - Some of us only do a full recharge every few weeks. We usually drive on 10 or 15 mile round trips, so recharging from around 3 or 4 bars up to 6 or 7 bars once or twice a week is all we need. If you're headed out on a longer trip and need a full charge, best to do the charging shortly before you leave . . . . the night before is OK - Recharging overnight so it finishes shortly before you leave is even better

Don

 

[JoeS]

I had wondered about the discrepancy amongst our aircon readings, so I played with it for a few minutes this morning. Surprising to me, the RR reduction is independent of "coolth" setting, but is very susceptible to fan setting. Here are my readings this morning, with fan 'clicks':
FAN RR %Reduction
0 52 0
1 48 7.7
2 48 7.7
3 47 9.6
4 47 9.6
5 46 11.5
6 45 13.5
7 44 15.4
8(max) 43 17.3

Ambient temperature around 70degF. Since I normally keep my fan on very low, this explains why my percentage numbers were lower than Don's. (sorry about the list formatting)

 

[Don]

Surprising to me, the RR reduction is independent of "coolth" setting, but is very susceptible to fan setting.

Very true - We discovered this early on. Apparently, it's how rapidly you carry the 'cool' away from the evaporator and not how cold you have it set to - Once the car gets comfy, turning the fan speed down does reduce the energy usage. In daily use, it's anywhere from 10 to 15% for us, more on hot days of course and more on short trips where the car never gets cool enough to turn it down

Like most things with this car, the energy use can be 'modified' to meet whatever needs you have. Many times on longer trips where we *think* we may be flirting with our max range, we drive slowly with little climate control use on the outbound leg and then we find we have plenty to cruise home at higher speeds and comfort levels

Don

 

[phb10186]

Surprising to me, the RR reduction is independent of "coolth" setting, but is very susceptible to fan setting.

Very true - We discovered this early on. Apparently, it's how rapidly you carry the 'cool' away from the evaporator and not how cold you have it set to - Once the car gets comfy, turning the fan speed down does reduce the energy usage. In daily use, it's anywhere from 10 to 15% for us, more on hot days of course and more on short trips where the car never gets cool enough to turn it down

Like most things with this car, the energy use can be 'modified' to meet whatever needs you have. Many times on longer trips where we *think* we may be flirting with our max range, we drive slowly with little climate control use on the outbound leg and then we find we have plenty to cruise home at higher speeds and comfort levels

Don

Weird. I thought AC is either ON or OFF, and the fan speed is independent. High fan speed would take more cool air away from the condenser side, but in effect just prolong the duration that AC is ON. MAX AC just being yet another setting with both blower and rad fan on the fastest setting... so I guess this is just algorithm here, rather than anything else: ambient temperature + fan speed / known AC output to give some sort of factor.... can;t see how it can be anything else.