Fully Charged
- Thread starter Phximiev
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Very interesting interview, touching upon some disturbing areas where bureaucratic meddling is seriously affecting renewables growth -
1. Wind turbine size restrictions are limiting the economic benefits derived from physically larger turbines - among other things, getting a turbine up higher off the ground gives it cleaner and stronger airflow.
2. Subsidies exist for every type of energy production (often as quite hidden tax incentives) but in the UK are evidently being removed for wind. Even with no subsidies, wind turbines are economically viable BUT further expansion is presently going on hold as the issue seems to be that, in addition to size restrictions, there is no market guarantee that they can sell what they produce. Interesting dilemma. Battery and hydro storage systems need parallel expansion. Here in California a number of our dams traditionally burn off excess available grid power by pumping water back up into the reservoir from the forebay.
Driving around the US it was nice to see windfarms all around the country. I remember in Tasmania (Australia) they were featured as a local attraction rather than something to be shunned, whereas on the US East Coast offshore windfarms are having a terrible time getting approved due to local opposition. The investment costs allocated to the permitting process (and its time delays) must be appalling - I still remember the scathing remarks by a developer here in California during the 'grand opening' of a windfarm out in the California delta saying that it could have been online five years earlier but for the hoop-jumping they had to go through.
This video answered one question for me: I had always wondered what sort of commutator they use for these massive amounts of power as a result of the turbine spinning around on its vertical axis to face the wind. It turns out they DON'T, and have to stop occasionally and 'unwind' the cable inside.
For my seven years of off-grid cruising on a sailboat I had both a small windgen as well as solar. Loved them both, with solar providing greater overall utility in the tropics as the low average windspeeds didn't provide much oomph for my small unit.
All in all this Fully Charged episode was a good vehicle for the windpower industry to express their frustration.
1. Wind turbine size restrictions are limiting the economic benefits derived from physically larger turbines - among other things, getting a turbine up higher off the ground gives it cleaner and stronger airflow.
2. Subsidies exist for every type of energy production (often as quite hidden tax incentives) but in the UK are evidently being removed for wind. Even with no subsidies, wind turbines are economically viable BUT further expansion is presently going on hold as the issue seems to be that, in addition to size restrictions, there is no market guarantee that they can sell what they produce. Interesting dilemma. Battery and hydro storage systems need parallel expansion. Here in California a number of our dams traditionally burn off excess available grid power by pumping water back up into the reservoir from the forebay.
Driving around the US it was nice to see windfarms all around the country. I remember in Tasmania (Australia) they were featured as a local attraction rather than something to be shunned, whereas on the US East Coast offshore windfarms are having a terrible time getting approved due to local opposition. The investment costs allocated to the permitting process (and its time delays) must be appalling - I still remember the scathing remarks by a developer here in California during the 'grand opening' of a windfarm out in the California delta saying that it could have been online five years earlier but for the hoop-jumping they had to go through.
This video answered one question for me: I had always wondered what sort of commutator they use for these massive amounts of power as a result of the turbine spinning around on its vertical axis to face the wind. It turns out they DON'T, and have to stop occasionally and 'unwind' the cable inside.
For my seven years of off-grid cruising on a sailboat I had both a small windgen as well as solar. Loved them both, with solar providing greater overall utility in the tropics as the low average windspeeds didn't provide much oomph for my small unit.
All in all this Fully Charged episode was a good vehicle for the windpower industry to express their frustration.
misterbleepy
Well-known member
That was news to me too - and made me enjoy the video more than I thought I would - I like finding out random stuff like that.JoeS said:
phb10186
Well-known member
JoeS said:
Not sure if it's bureaucratic meddling per se- rather the historic lack of un-meddling that's the issue (like 500 years of it). We are extremely good at introducing restrictions to growth in favourable areas with bureaucracy in the UK, we have some of the oldest, most complex, draconian and restricting planning and development laws in this country.
It's a real hold-back for the roll-out of this type of thing. I didn't know that we have 40% of the wind in Europe, but looking at the current government, I can well believe it.
If we want to stop falling behind the rest of the developed world, we need to actually box-tick some of this stuff, and get on and build it. Saying that, it is easy for someone from the US to think it's easy, but we are a pretty small country with 60m of us - so they do need to be placed in the right places - there is a lot more space for this type of thing in the US.
wmcbrine
Well-known member
"Bureaucratic meddling", to me, suggests something well-intentioned but misguided. This sounds more like regulatory capture by fossil fuel interests (not well-intentioned at all).
PV1
Well-known member
If V2G ever makes it to market, I still think the most it will entail is delayed charging. There's enough concern over batteries without adding the extra cycles to backfeed the grid.
Of all the systems I've seen, I still think Mitubishi's M-tech Labo is the one done correctly. It's basically a battery-based RE system with the ability to parallel the car with a stationary (preferably a 2nd life) battery, so that the car isn't the only battery in the system. Even then, I don't believe any stored power is backfed to the grid and is only used to during grid outages and high demand.
I wonder if ChargePoint Home can integrate enough with the Nest (it already does to some extent) so that if A/C or electric/heat pump heating kicks in, it pauses EV charging until HVAC turns off. The 2.5 ton A/C unit at my house uses a little more power than the car does at level 2, so swapping one for the other would only be a few hundred watts difference. The Nest could signal the CH Home that a call for heat or cool is pending EV charge pause. The CH pauses charging, then tells the Nest to engage HVAC. When the call for HVAC ends, the Nest can signal the CH to resume charging.
Of all the systems I've seen, I still think Mitubishi's M-tech Labo is the one done correctly. It's basically a battery-based RE system with the ability to parallel the car with a stationary (preferably a 2nd life) battery, so that the car isn't the only battery in the system. Even then, I don't believe any stored power is backfed to the grid and is only used to during grid outages and high demand.
I wonder if ChargePoint Home can integrate enough with the Nest (it already does to some extent) so that if A/C or electric/heat pump heating kicks in, it pauses EV charging until HVAC turns off. The 2.5 ton A/C unit at my house uses a little more power than the car does at level 2, so swapping one for the other would only be a few hundred watts difference. The Nest could signal the CH Home that a call for heat or cool is pending EV charge pause. The CH pauses charging, then tells the Nest to engage HVAC. When the call for HVAC ends, the Nest can signal the CH to resume charging.
What happens when ITM runs out of storage?
They propose using the natural gas network according to their website: http://www.itm-power.com/sectors/power-to-gas-energy-storage
Interesting notion, create it at night and burn it during the day or whenever needed.
They propose using the natural gas network according to their website: http://www.itm-power.com/sectors/power-to-gas-energy-storage
Interesting notion, create it at night and burn it during the day or whenever needed.
