Duosida EVSE

[justoneman]

8:54pm





So 5 bars in less than 3 hours.

 

[justoneman]

11pm


9 bars charged in 5 hours. Sure it could really be 8.5 bars. maybe its 9.5 bars.

 

[JoeS]

9 bars charged in 5 hours. Sure it could really be 8.5 bars. maybe its 9.5 bars.

OK, let's consider this -

My rule of thumb (very coarse) is -
4 Bars/5hrs @ 8A
6 Bars/5hrs @ 12A

Using this progression, 9 Bars/5hrs ==> 18A :shock:

So, maybe 16A may not be too far off the mark as the max the car can draw.

justoneman, perhaps either measure the temperature or at least put your hand on all the connectors (and maybe the circuit breaker itself?) to make sure nothing is running hot. Also, you might look up the circuit breaker specifications and see how much overcurrent it can take for how long.

My guess is that the current is probably close to 15A. Please do measure it as soon as you can and do be careful, as I think you might indeed be overloading that circuit.

 

[justoneman]

9 bars charged in 5 hours. Sure it could really be 8.5 bars. maybe its 9.5 bars.

OK, let's consider this -

My rule of thumb (very coarse) is -
4 Bars/5hrs @ 8A
6 Bars/5hrs @ 12A

Using this progression, 9 Bars/5hrs ==> 18A :shock:

So, maybe 16A may not be too far off the mark as the max the car can draw.

justoneman, perhaps either measure the temperature or at least put your hand on all the connectors (and maybe the circuit breaker itself?) to make sure nothing is running hot. Also, you might look up the circuit breaker specifications and see how much overcurrent it can take for how long.

My guess is that the current is probably close to 15A. Please do measure it as soon as you can and do be careful, as I think you might indeed be overloading that circuit.

Sure but the reality is I may have photo-ed the bars when starting the charge and perhaps a bar appeared seconds after the photo. Then the last bar could have just appear seconds before the last photo. Could very well be 7.5 to 8 bars were added total. Given the unit is rated to draw 10a or 13A or 16A is it not likely it is drawing 13A?

 

[justoneman]

9 bars charged in 5 hours. Sure it could really be 8.5 bars. maybe its 9.5 bars.

OK, let's consider this -

My rule of thumb (very coarse) is -
4 Bars/5hrs @ 8A
6 Bars/5hrs @ 12A

Using this progression, 9 Bars/5hrs ==> 18A :shock:

So, maybe 16A may not be too far off the mark as the max the car can draw.

justoneman, perhaps either measure the temperature or at least put your hand on all the connectors (and maybe the circuit breaker itself?) to make sure nothing is running hot. Also, you might look up the circuit breaker specifications and see how much overcurrent it can take for how long.

My guess is that the current is probably close to 15A. Please do measure it as soon as you can and do be careful, as I think you might indeed be overloading that circuit.

I will check it out this evening. If it is a problem I will pull new wires through the conduit and make it a 20 amp circuit.

 

[justoneman]

9 bars charged in 5 hours. Sure it could really be 8.5 bars. maybe its 9.5 bars.

OK, let's consider this -

My rule of thumb (very coarse) is -
4 Bars/5hrs @ 8A
6 Bars/5hrs @ 12A

Using this progression, 9 Bars/5hrs ==> 18A :shock:

So, maybe 16A may not be too far off the mark as the max the car can draw.

justoneman, perhaps either measure the temperature or at least put your hand on all the connectors (and maybe the circuit breaker itself?) to make sure nothing is running hot. Also, you might look up the circuit breaker specifications and see how much overcurrent it can take for how long.

My guess is that the current is probably close to 15A. Please do measure it as soon as you can and do be careful, as I think you might indeed be overloading that circuit.

OK so I came home and put the car on charge. After an hour I checked out the outlet for warmth. Its not warm at all. I went into the house to check the breaker. the breaker is ever so slightly warm. A couple of other breakers are also a little warm. I checked the conduits coming from the main service and one is also a little warm to the touch. I will open up the service and see what is heading where. If the wires are only #14 on the garage circuit, I will replace them. I will make it a 20amp circuit.

 

[thomash85715]

To summarize this so far: Justoneman is plugging a duosida rigged for level 1 120V into a 20A outlet which is downstream from a 15A breaker which is only barely warm after several hours. The extrapolated current draw based on how fast the car's gauge fills up could be 16A in fact? Why is breaker not hot or tripping then?
I ordered a duosida with a 10-30 plug on it from a guy in Gilbert AZ hoping to cut my level 1 time by more than half. Will let the forum know how that goes. I do have a working clamp amp meter to determine the actual draw once it gets here and is operating from my dryer plug. It shows ~17A on each hot wire when dryer is running on normal heat. Double handle breakers each say 30A on them in my panel.

 

[justoneman]

To summarize this so far: Justoneman is plugging a duosida rigged for level 1 120V into a 20A outlet which is downstream from a 15A breaker which is only barely warm after several hours. The extrapolated current draw based on how fast the car's gauge fills up could be 16A in fact? Why is breaker not hot or tripping then?
I ordered a duosida with a 10-30 plug on it from a guy in Gilbert AZ hoping to cut my level 1 time by more than half. Will let the forum know how that goes. I do have a working clamp amp meter to determine the actual draw once it gets here and is operating from my dryer plug. It shows ~17A on each hot wire when dryer is running on normal heat. Double handle breakers each say 30A on them in my panel.

I It must be less than 15A right? Is that not logical? The only other option is a bad breaker. Given that it is not hot I would suspect not. I know the breaker does trip I had popped it before from starting my table saw on that outlet. Regardless I think it is correct that I have a dangerous situation that I need to rectify.

I think you are going to be happy with your purchase. The rate of charge is legit.

 

[kiev]

Maybe a voltmeter would help determine if the 20A jack wired to the 15A breaker is really carrying 240V due to wiring 2 single breakers from separate legs in the breaker box?

 

[justoneman]

Maybe a voltmeter would help determine if the 20A jack wired to the 15A breaker is really carrying 240V due to wiring 2 single breakers from separate legs in the breaker box?

Its not. I isolated it down to the single 15A breaker.

 

[JoeS]

Let's summarize -

We know that the i-MiEV draws around 13A on 240vac. That is not the topic for this discussion, as there is no problem feeding the i-MiEV with the Duosida off either a 20A or 30A circuit at 240vac.

The question on the table is 120vac current draw by the i-MiEV. justoneman, looks like you have everything under control. Until we know more details, the Duosida (as far as we know it's programmed to 16A) should be used on a 120vac 20A circuit.

This may all go away as an issue if someone actually measures the i-MiEV current draw from an 'unrestrained' EVSE on 120vac and finds it to be around 12A. If that is the case, justoneman, you won't even need to do anything, but if it's easy to pull that wire and upgrade the circuit to 20A I'd do it anyway.

thomash85715, this whole discussion started because you said you couldn't use 240vac. Now you went off and bought the Duosida and will be using it on your dryer outlet which is 240vac.

In effect, it was good to have this discussion because it drew attention to the possible 120vac problem with the Duosida.

 

[justoneman]

The only thing Joe, is it can't really be drawing only 12A though right? Not at the rate my car is charging.

Let's summarize -

We know that the i-MiEV draws around 13A on 240vac. That is not the topic for this discussion, as there is no problem feeding the i-MiEV with the Duosida off either a 20A or 30A circuit at 240vac.

The question on the table is 120vac current draw by the i-MiEV. justoneman, looks like you have everything under control. Until we know more details, the Duosida (as far as we know it's programmed to 16A) should be used on a 120vac 20A circuit.

This may all go away as an issue if someone actually measures the i-MiEV current draw from an 'unrestrained' EVSE on 120vac and finds it to be around 12A. If that is the case, justoneman, you won't even need to do anything, but if it's easy to pull that wire and upgrade the circuit to 20A I'd do it anyway.

thomash85715, this whole discussion started because you said you couldn't use 240vac. Now you went off and bought the Duosida and will be using it on your dryer outlet which is 240vac.

In effect, it was good to have this discussion because it drew attention to the possible 120vac problem with the Duosida.

 

[justoneman]

The only thing Joe, is it can't really be drawing only 12A though right? Not at the rate my car is charging.

Let's summarize -

We know that the i-MiEV draws around 13A on 240vac. That is not the topic for this discussion, as there is no problem feeding the i-MiEV with the Duosida off either a 20A or 30A circuit at 240vac.

The question on the table is 120vac current draw by the i-MiEV. justoneman, looks like you have everything under control. Until we know more details, the Duosida (as far as we know it's programmed to 16A) should be used on a 120vac 20A circuit.

This may all go away as an issue if someone actually measures the i-MiEV current draw from an 'unrestrained' EVSE on 120vac and finds it to be around 12A.] If that is the case, justoneman, you won't even need to do anything, but if it's easy to pull that wire and upgrade the circuit to 20A I'd do it anyway.

thomash85715, this whole discussion started because you said you couldn't use 240vac. Now you went off and bought the Duosida and will be using it on your dryer outlet which is 240vac.

In effect, it was good to have this discussion because it drew attention to the possible 120vac problem with the Duosida.

I have been studying my 15A circuit situation today and realize there is more on the circuit than just the one outlet. I would need to pull a whole lot of wire to make the entire circuit comply with a new 20A breaker. Now I am thinking I need to run a totally new line.

 

[JoeS]

The only thing Joe, is it can't really be drawing only 12A though right? Not at the rate my car is charging.

Right - the question is how much over 12A?

I have been studying my 15A circuit situation today and realize there is more on the circuit than just the one outlet. I would need to pull a whole lot of wire to make the entire circuit comply with a new 20A breaker. Now I am thinking I need to run a totally new line.

Ouch! When the i-MiEV first came out, IIRC Mitsubishi insisted that we provide a dedicate line for the car and were having Best Buy Geek Squad come out to 'inspect' our installation for compliance. They did that with me, but their follow-up fizzled out as I wasn't buying into what they were trying to sell me.

Turns out we've been re-inventing the wheel, with the Leaf forum already well into this Duosida topic.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=22692&p=494099
Evidently there's a Duosida model out there that is current programmable by simply shaking it!

Indications are that there are a number of cars and EVSEs not following the J1772 standard when it comes to 120vac (upper limit of 16A, but some go way over that which holds them in good stead using a TT-30 RV campground outlet).

When the standards were being set, Tesla thankfully prevailed on L2, as I've charged mine using a J1772 plug at 60A on 240vac, and have a 40A eMW JuiceBox J1772 capability at home if I ever want to use it.

 

[thomash85715]

To say my position on this "evolved" would put me in league with lots of politicians who "see the light" and switch sides. I hope that is not a bad thing to be criticized for. It is true that I burned up the server traffic with my machinations about current draw on L1 and then turned around and bought a duosida with a 240V dryer plug on it. I grew weary of being cajoled (or whatever this was) over clinging to L1 and succumbed to the drumbeat which should be OK.
Today the thing came from a guy in Gilbert AZ 100 miles from me and I hooked it up and my car sucked up big power big time. My clamp meter showed around 14.5A on each leg soon after connecting for first time. Within the first hour I had gained three bars and maybe 15 miles of range. Will double check pictures I took and post them tomorrow.
The shakeable duosidas cost more like $400 I was told by guy who sold me this one.
Soon I might try to hook this up as L1 on a 120V plug but need to know first if it makes any difference which of the two 240 wires gets the hot and which the neutral.

 

[wmcbrine]

When the standards were being set, Tesla thankfully prevailed on L2, as I've charged mine using a J1772 plug at 60A on 240vac,

Where do you find those in the wild, though? I mean, apart from Tesla-supplied equipment. And are there yet any non-Tesla cars that can charge at more than 40A AC? It seems almost like a theoretical part of the standard more than an actual one.

 

[JoeS]

To say my position on this "evolved" would put me in league with lots of politicians who "see the light" and switch sides. I hope that is not a bad thing to be criticized for...
Today the thing came from a guy in Gilbert AZ 100 miles from me and I hooked it up and my car sucked up big power big time. My clamp meter showed around 14.5A on each leg soon after connecting for first time. Within the first hour I had gained three bars and maybe 15 miles of range...

thomash85715, delighted you saw the light and are now enjoying the maximum power that the i-MiEV charger can absorb, although the 14.5A reading is a bit high if your voltage is 240vac. Perhaps the actual voltage is lower? In any case, my comment wasn't intended as criticism and I apologize if it came out that way.

Sorry for wandering a bit off-topic on the J1772 specifications. Probably the more memorable high-power J1772 EVSE I found was in Iraan, TX, which is a 75A Clipper Creek unit. https://api.plugshare.com/view/location/19815
Installed and maintained by an accommodating Tesla owner who wanted to be able to service both conventional EVs as well as Teslas with one unit. A year ago Tesla had still not built out their Supercharger network in that part of the world and there was nuthin' else out there.
My Tesia has a dual charger setup that is good for 240vac 80A. Haven't heard of any stock BEVs with higher than 7.2kW built-in chargers.
There is a downside to installing a higher-power EVSE: the heavy power J1772 cable is somewhat more unwieldly than the relatively-lightweight Mitsu EVSE cable, adding perhaps a couple of seconds to this twice-daily operation. :roll:

 

[justoneman]

The only thing Joe, is it can't really be drawing only 12A though right? Not at the rate my car is charging.

Right - the question is how much over 12A?

I have been studying my 15A circuit situation today and realize there is more on the circuit than just the one outlet. I would need to pull a whole lot of wire to make the entire circuit comply with a new 20A breaker. Now I am thinking I need to run a totally new line.

Ouch! When the i-MiEV first came out, IIRC Mitsubishi insisted that we provide a dedicate line for the car and were having Best Buy Geek Squad come out to 'inspect' our installation for compliance. They did that with me, but their follow-up fizzled out as I wasn't buying into what they were trying to sell me.

Turns out we've been re-inventing the wheel, with the Leaf forum already well into this Duosida topic.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=22692&p=494099
Evidently there's a Duosida model out there that is current programmable by simply shaking it!

Indications are that there are a number of cars and EVSEs not following the J1772 standard when it comes to 120vac (upper limit of 16A, but some go way over that which holds them in good stead using a TT-30 RV campground outlet).

When the standards were being set, Tesla thankfully prevailed on L2, as I've charged mine using a J1772 plug at 60A on 240vac, and have a 40A eMW JuiceBox J1772 capability at home if I ever want to use it.

Yes there is that unit with the built in gauge that indicates the amps and is changed via shaking. It has a whole series of levels that it can be adjusted to. What is confusing me is my unit is rated with three levels of amperage at 120v 10A or 13A or 16A. How on earth on my unit is the amperage switched? I had read somewhere that it automatically adjusted to what the circuit made available. if that is the case is not 13A the only possibility? It certainly cannot be 16A on my 15A circuit right?

 

[Don]

How would you switch it between 10 amps and 13? It can't 'automatically' tell what your circuit is capable of, so there much be some way to manually switch it

Yes, it could very well be permanently set to 16 and designed for use only with a 20 amp 120 volt outlet. Luckily, your iMiEV can't draw 16 amps on L1, so you *might be* safe with your 15 amp outlet . . . . but I would monitor the current the first time you use it to make sure it's not overloading the circuit. You don't want to exceed 80% of the 15 amps your outlet is rated for, which would be 12 amps. I *think* your car would probably draw 13 to 13.5 amps, and if that's the case, I would install a proper outlet if you can't regulated it down to 12 amps or less

Don

 

[misterbleepy]

Haven't heard of any stock BEVs with higher than 7.2kW built-in chargers.

I think the Renault Zoe (small european hatchback BEV) can charge at 22kW and 43kW AC as well as 3kW and 7kW - it's available with a 22kWh or 41kWh battery. I think it might require a 3 phase AC supply to charge at the 2 highest rates.