Citroen C-Zero charging from Mennekes 32A stations

[GeorgeIon]

Hello everyone, first post here.

I have recently bought a new C-Zero and I am really delighted with the car. I would appreciate advice on 2 issues:

There is an increasing number of public "fast" charging stations avalable in London. They are usually of the Mennekes Type (IEC 62196) 240V 32A type. I have found some adapter cables ( Mennekes to J1772) ( eg http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electric-..._Car_Exterior_Accessories&hash=item35c51bd222
but the question is can the car make use of the 32A charge or is it limited to 16 A, in which case a cheaper 16A cable will suffice ?

Secondly, when fully charged the RR gauge -even after deep discharge and then recharge, and careful city driving- only shows 72miles remaining range. Should I worry about an aged battery and can I get the dealer to measure the capacity?

All advice welcome

 

[Llecentaur]

Czero is Limited to about 14.5 amp, Limited by its internal AC/DC charger.

 

[peterdambier]

Hello GeorgeIon.

Our i-MiEV or Ion is charging a max of 14 amperes. But beware in Germany at least we do have charging stations for 16A that will give a max of 16 amperes and charging stations that will give you a max of 32 amperes that wont give you anything at all if your plug is not coded for 32A.

My favorite is the blue command plug or CEE 230V/16A that is very popular on continental caravan parks. I guess we do have far fewer charging stations than caravan parking and most charging columns do offer Schuko sockets as backup for both the 16A and the 32A socket.

Those few Mennekes we have do require different RFID cards, each of them and the cable is ruthlessly expensive. That is why I dont have one.

72 miles or 115 kilometers that is reasonable for this time of the year or for this weather at least. I have seen 164 kilometers max but I have actually traveled some 111 kilometers with turtle showing and RR blinking. I guess it was some 120 kilometers actually until I reached one of those chargers.

 

[Zelenec]

can the car make use of the 32A charge or is it limited to 16 A, in which case a cheaper 16A cable will suffice ? ...dealer to measure the capacity?

1. Using Mennekes to J1772 cable you can charge with 16A and less with original cable. More then that - no way without upgrading internal charger and BMS.

2. You can measure capacity yourself. Fully discharge (until your car stops) the battery and then measure with how many kWh you can fully charge your battery. If your current meter shows something between 18 and 19 kWh (16 kWh capacity, the rest is efficiency loss), your battery capacity is OK

 

[GeorgeIon]

Many thanks for prompt replies

Llecentaur, I see you have same car. This is very helpful as it can be difficult to know what subtle diffrences exist with the Miev.
Have you got one of these cables?

Peterdambier, fair to say London have invested significantly in charging infrastructure. You find Mennekes 32A stations easily but hardly any Schukos around unfortunately , as indeed the cost for a 16A Mennekes to J1772 is £170. :shock . Card membership currently only £10 a year although I fear this may well change as user numbers inrease. :roll:

Zelenec, thanks , 16A seems to be the consencus. Regarding capacity measurement, I hear what you're saying but allowing for "2-3 KW" thermal dissipation can easily mask loss of say 1KW battery capacity :?: People also seem very anxious to avoid ever running their Lithium pack down until the car "stops" . Are you not concerned?

Cheers

 

[Zelenec]

People also seem very anxious to avoid ever running their Lithium pack down until the car "stops" . Are you not concerned?Cheers

Not really if not done on daily basis. I did it twice with test car last august to test the distance driven with turtle on (somewhere between 15 and 20 km - lightfooted) and once few weeks ago to test battery capacity. This is most accurate home method to measure battery capacity I know.

Technical adviser at PSA Slovenia answered many questions I had before purchasing my C-Zero. One of them was what should I consider to prolong battery lifetime... Well, he said, stay in ECO field whenever possible, don't accelerate and regenerate to hard when battery is very cold or hot. He also said that full discharging and charging has no impact on battery lifetime because of smart BMS and really slow charging at the end of charging process.

You can also check my experience here. Just use Google translate. It's not perfect but you could somehow understand most of it.

BR
David

 

[Zelenec]

Thermal and other losses are about 15%, so wall to wheels efficiency should be 85%. This is also confirmed by measurements of electricity consumption when charging. 16/18,8=0,85 where 16kWh is battery capacity and 18,8kWh is measured e-consumption when I charged from SOC 0 to 100.

15% is combined loss of the charger, BMS and battery itself.

 

[misterbleepy]

I bought a 32A Mennekes to J1772 cable for just over £214 from here:

http://www.zerocarbonworld.org/shop

I haven't used it yet, but some of the free charging stations in my area do use this type of connector, and while the price is a little more than a 16A cable on ebay, I prefer to have something backed up by an actual company who invest in the EV charging infrastructure, that also has the headroom to be used to charge a vehicle with a higher capacity charging system.

I'll let you know if it works when I get to try it out - as charging stations are so rare where I live, I plan to try and "reserve" a charging point when I make a journey longer than the maximum range, as if I couldn't charge, there would most likely be no alternative.

 

[GeorgeIon]

Zelenec ok I see what you mean. I just thought that PSA / Mitsu should have some kind of sofisticated equipment to measure battery pack health. I used to havE an aixam mega and i was using a battery conductance meter for the lead acid battery pack.

Misterbleepy thanks they do look better quality and CE mark is critical. I am not sure it is worth carrying around the extra weight /bulk of 32 A cable if the on board charger is only 16 A. In /around London the mennekes are becoming the norm , presumably geared towards renault Zoe etc.

 

[RenewQ]

Another newbie here. Just bought Citroen C-Zero. Does anyone else think that these cables are remarkably expensive for what they are? I know you may want to support companies involved in the rollout, but in Ireland at least they are getting well paid by state agencies. I see them on offer for a much lower price on some Chinese sites, and I suspect that like my computer, they don't get made anywhere else anyhow... Anyone want to PM me to look for a bulk price?

 

[peterdambier]

The UK plug may look awful but it can do 16A continuous. The Blue Command Plug or Caravan Plug or CEE 240V/16A can do 16A continuous as well and is about some 5 Euros. You might get a cable with plugs or couplings on the ends for about 50 Euros with a length of 25 meters.

Our german Schuko plug can do 10A continuous. With 16A it will melt. That is why they try to sell us 5 meters of cable with a Mennekes plug on one end for 400 Euros.

It is a plug and cable just like a normal household extension cord. It has got a designer plug but the artisan has not even put her signature on it. What do they want 400 Euros for?

There is not much they can mess with a plug. Test if it gets hot while charging and get rid of it if it does.

Cheers
Peter and Karin