Chevy Bolt production version

[NeilBlanchard]

It does indeedy, but how did you download the picture?

I didn't download it - I right clicked and copied the image location to the clipboard, and then pasted that into an image link.

You guys know about the http://www.mychevybolt.com/forum/index.php which run by the same folks doing this forum?

 

[Phximiev]

Well, I do now.

 

[PV1]

I just received an email from Chevy. The EPA has rated the Bolt with 238 miles of range.

Despite a total disappearance of any mention of quick charging capabilities from their website, it has returned and will have the CCS/Combo plug. They are still going with a meager 6.6 kW on-board charger, meaning 9.5 hours for a full, level 2 recharge. I still feel that batteries larger than 40-50 kWh should come with a 10 kW on-board at the least. J1772 supports up to 19.2 kW.

Maybe this will be the new charging station of choice instead of the current 30 amp EVSEs?
http://www.chargepoint.com/products/commercial/cpe100/

So, as a comparison with the Model 3, the Bolt now has a higher mileage claim and is more utilitarian (being a hatch with a relatively flat floor), but the Model 3 has a lower starting price and has access to a much larger charging network (Superchargers, CHAdeMO, and Tesla's Destination Network), as well as very likely having a more powerful on-board charger. The Bolt will also be available within a couple of months (I've heard late October. Site simply says "Late '16."), where the Model 3 is realistically 1.5-2 years out for most people.

 

[Phximiev]

I just received an email from Chevy. The EPA has rated the Bolt with 238 miles of range.

InsiderEVs take:

http://insideevs.com/chevrolet-bolt-ev-rated-238-miles-electric-range/

http://insideevs.com/opel-ampera-e-range-beats-all-competitors/

http://insideevs.com/gm-releases-video-library-of-what-the-238-mile-chevrolet-bolt-ev-can-do/

It looks like a great product.

 

[mdbuilder]

That new DC Fast charger looks great. Power is not so high but @ 50 amps off 480 3 phase I bet it can be installed in most any commercial location.

As far as 6.6 Kw being too small, I don't know. Seems fine to me, 10Kw would be new, more expensive and fairly overkill for daily use. Give me the 24Kw DC Fast things installed widely at public stations and the 6.6 is perfectly fine at home. Hell, my current 16 amp 240V EVSE is still fine for charging 2 times a week.

 

[PV1]

They have both a 24 kW and a 50 kW station (the 50 kW having both CHAdeMO and CCS connectors). These would be better located at short-to-medium layover locations, such as restaurants and grocery stores. A full charge would take about 2.5 hours on the 24 kW unit.

I just have a feeling about the public response to "A full charge takes 9 hours." :? Look at how some people even complain about the 20 minute CHAdeMO stop for the current EVs :roll: .

OT - Anybody else have an ad for the new Tesla adapter discussed here on that first insideevs.com link? So much for keeping that low-profile.
http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3287

 

[PV1]

Maybe this will be the new charging station of choice instead of the current 30 amp EVSEs?
http://www.chargepoint.com/products/commercial/cpe100/

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/bmw-and-volkswagen-take-on-tesla-motors-with-a-new-us-fast-charging-network-cm678817

Looking promising :mrgreen: . As far as I know, no other quick charging brand has automaker support behind it, except maybe Nissan and EVGo (big promo right now in Pittsburgh between Nissan, Dunkin' Donuts, and EVGo). ChargePoint is my personal favorite with seemingly good reliability and an easy to use site/app.

 

[mdbuilder]

Wrong question, who commutes over 200 miles in a day?

The right question is something like "I've got a long 50 mile each way commute, how long to recharge each night? 4 hours" That'd cover all but a few percent of usage for pretty much anyone.

Doesn't matter how fast the fast charge is, driving any electric car on a trip > 200 miles is impractical unless you are out to prove something or on a sight seeing trip where minimum transit time is not important. Says the guy who covered 1,100 miles over a 4 day weekend going from MD to Ohio and back. 500 miles in 8 hours in one day is just not doable in an EV.

 

[Phximiev]

Wrong question, who commutes over 200 miles in a day? ... Says the guy who covered 1,100 miles over a 4 day weekend going from MD to Ohio and back. 500 miles in 8 hours in one day is just not doable in an EV.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Like most 'Miev owners, we use the 'Miev for in-town and around town driving. We don't go over 30-40 miles per day. But, when on vacation, we easily go over 100+ miles in a day in any rental (See the: "Ride Sharing" topic). For some, with the Bolt, there is no more need for a rental. On the other hand, on our next vacation, we will most certainly be on the look out for one!

I think it's a great step forward. :mrgreen:

And where's Mitsubishi? (Time to step up!)

 

[JoeS]

mdbuilder, I agree with your points. I attribute the magic "200-mile range" to marketing pandering to an innumerate populace. That also goes for Tesla, as, anecdotally, in my informal discussions with Tesla owners - they rarely use the cars differently than we use our i-MiEVs! In fact, a number of them expressed a fear of venturing too far… go figure!

My wife now makes the 400-mile (one way) trip to/from Medford Oregon in the Tesla, and loves the car for this trip (previously regularly done in the Gen1 Honda Insight). Takes the same amount of time as the Insight as she's always liked to take breaks in her driving - invariably, the Tesla is always charged up (<80%) and ready to go before she is! I'm sure I could knock at least a couple of hours off her dawdling 9-hour drive if I wanted to.

Notably, Tesla charging stop times can be significantly decreased by simply altering the SOC window; i.e., stopping charging at a lower point and discharging to a lower level. Tesla's charging rate starts tapering off fairly quickly - but, then, so does our i-MiEV's DCQC. After a few hours one needs to take a pee break, anyway - might as well combine this with a full-power 115kW SuperCharging stop and a snack.

Back on-topic: the 238-mile 'range' of the Bolt is a breakthrough in the sense that it takes away one of the naysayers' arguments against BEVs.

 

[rmay635703]

There seems to be a lot of mis information in this thread but mainly about the model 3 not the bolt.

1. The model 3 will not be cheaper even in base form than a base bolt and it won't include supercharging in the price (typical tesla after tax break misconception)

2. Supercharging is not included in the base model 3 it costs extra (worth saying twice)

3. Model 3 is vaporware

So a 200 mile car I can buy in a couple months or wait a few years for something unknown

 

[PV1]

Not according to their website:

Our most affordable car yet, Model 3 achieves 215 miles of range per charge while starting at only $35,000 before incentives.

The uncertainty with the Model 3 is if it will qualify for the full Federal EV incentive, as Tesla is closing in on the 200,000 vehicle threshold. The Model 3 may only qualify for half or 1/4 of the $7,500 FTC. Going off of the last price reports, a Bolt is $37,500, and the Model 3 is $35,000. As far as I know, only the Roadster missed its expected price point, but that price jump saved the company.

We now know that Supercharging will be extra, and many suspected before that it would be (DCQC on the Bolt will also be optional). Same for Autopilot. The hardware will be present in every car, but enabling the convenience features will cost extra, just like it does for the S and X now. The safety features (crash avoidance/emergency braking) will be standard. However, because of both the compatibility of Supercharging and having access to CHAdeMO stations with the already available adapter, the Model 3 is ahead right now in charging infrastructure. CCS is starting to catch up, though.

"Vaporware" suggests that a working prototype doesn't even exist. This isn't true, as there are three known prototypes (the three at the reveal, two of which offered test rides afterwards). The red one is parked out at the Gigafactory. There were also pictures floating around of a black Model 3, so this could mean at least 4 cars.

Even though this may put a hurt on Tesla's sales of the 3, one advantage of still being a year out is that they can step back and see what their competition brings and have the chance to top all of them before being fully committed to their production specs. By then, the S and X could gain another 5 kWh of energy storage, which would help the 3 in the range department as well.

Back on topic, amazing that the Bolt blew away the range predictions, and I look forward to test driving one soon.

 

[mdbuilder]

That cool aid tastes good eh?

 

[Phximiev]

And where's Mitsubishi? (Time to step up!)

Perhaps here, "[w]ith a new generation of higher-capacity batteries"? http://insideevs.com/mitsubishi-announces-gt-phev-concept-paris-motor-show/

Perhaps a battery upgrade path for the 'Miev?

Or am I just dreaming?

:mrgreen:

 

[rmay635703]

Not according to their website:

Our most affordable car yet, Model 3 achieves 215 miles of range per charge while starting at only $35,000 before incentives.

The uncertainty with the Model 3 is if it will qualify for the full Federal EV incentive, as Tesla is closing in on the 200,000 vehicle threshold. The Model 3 may only qualify for half or 1/4 of the $7,500 FTC. Going off of the last price reports, a Bolt is $37,500, and the Model 3 is $35,000. As far as I know, only the Roadster missed its expected price point, but that price jump saved the company.

Tesla has a long history of missing deadlines and coming out $10-$40k more expensive than their teasers.

So unless Tesla really steps up or their new larger cells allow for better price reductions I do not see tesla offering anything cheaper than the Bolt.

Unless they have a loss leader that is basically unavailable, sort of like the S40

Ah Well

As for Mitsu's SUV, that too is another vaporware car.

Unless we know how many KWhr the battery is, their claims are meaningless.

 

[kaiat]

Norwegian Opel-dealers have started taking reservations for the European Bolt-sibling Ampera-e now. Exact pricing is not clear yet, but they are talking of 300-350 000NOK, roughly 36-42 000USD. One Opel-dealer is reported to have 300 reservations, which is not bad at all.

The big question is, how many do we get over here? :roll:

 

[phb10186]

UK not getting the Bolt (Vauxhall Ampera-e) as GM haven't developed a right hand drive version, which they did for the Ampera/ Volt

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/gm-denies-britain-all-electric-opel-ampera-e

"The structure has been developed for left-hand-drive markets only, and to adapt it to a right-hand-drive version would incur significant costs" well clearly, and what is defined as significant - it's a steering wheel on the other side, hardly rocket science.

 

[PV1]

Official Bolt starting price is $37,495, nearly spot on with the predicted price of $37,500 before incentives. Two trim levels are available.

 

[PV1]

According to this dealer's website, the Bolt should arrive this month.

http://robbinschevy.com/blog/when-is-the-release-date-of-the-2017-chevy-bolt-in-the-houston-area/

 

[NeilBlanchard]

We are now into November, so hopefully that dealer is not too far wrong.