Battery warranty if you don't use an Eaton charger

[Dan O]

Last week I had to go into the dealership and sign a "Customer Disclosure Form" The verbage in that form that pertained to chargers and battery warranty are as follows:

The Main Drive Lithium-'ion Battery can be charged using three different methods. The recommended
charging method is called Level 2 charging which utilizes a home charging dock, This is a dedicated charging system that can be installed at your residence- These charging systems offer a fast, convenient way to charge your vehicle. Total charging time is typically 6 hours or less. For Level 2 charging, MMNA Recommends using Level 2 chargers manufactured and warranted by Eaton Corporation, and which are available now for purchase through Best Buy's geek Squad. Call 1-800-GEEKSQUAD. While Level 2 chargers provided by other manufactures may be available, MMNA cannot guarantee the functionality or compatibility of those chargers at this time.

Main Drive Lithium-ion Battery Warranty:

The Main Drive Lithium-ion Battery is covered for defects in material and workmanship for 8 years or
100,000 miles, whichever comes first. The gradual capacity loss of the Main Drive Lithium-ion Battery
based on time and usage is not covered under this warranty.
This warranty does not cover damage to or failure of the main Drive Lithium-ion Battery resulting from or caused by:

Storage in or exposure to extreme high or extreme low Temperatures
Storing the vehicle for long periods of the time without proper maintenance.
Failure to keep the Main Drive Lithium-ion Battery charged during storage of the vehicle.
Physical damage to the Main Drive Lithium-ion Battery due to road hazards, debris,
accidents or other outside factors.
Exposing the Main Drive Lithium-ion Battery to a direct flame.
lmmersion of the Main Drive Lithium-ion Battery in water or other liquids.
Servicing of the Main Drive Lithium-ion Battery by anyone other than a certified i-MiEV dealer.
Not following the correct charging procedures as specified in your owner's Manual.
Charging your vehicle using incompatible and/or incorrect charging equipment
Delay 0r failure to have an existing problem repaired on your vehicle '
Failure to follow the instructions regarding the Main Drive Lithium-ion Battery specified in the Owner's Manual.
For more information regarding damage to or failure of the Main Drive Lithium-lon Battery that will not be covered under warranty, see the section "WHATS NOT COVERED" starting on page 12 0f the Warranty Manual.

I would think that since the Leviton charging unit is the same amperage, kw output and compatable in every other way that there should be no problem with the warranty. Mitsubishi would have to prove that your charger caused a problem. I felt comfortable enough to install a Leviton unit. Unless someone has a warranty manual you will have to draw your own conclusions. Dan O

 

[marta]

I haven't seen any information from Mitsubishi regarding a specific type of charger required - they've built safety features into the Mitsubishi i to ensure that it doesn't get overcharged/shorted whatever you want to call it from the external charger and power source. Just think about when you're out on the road and you stop at some random charging station with an unknown brand of charger etc. Yes there are some main major companies that provide EV chargers, but there's more all the time coming to market.

 

[Dan O]

Marta, You are correct that there is protocol built into the "I" to keep it from overcharging. The main danger, is if the lithium batterys are charged to fast they will overheat and catch fire. That's why I was very careful to make sure that the Leviton charger that I purchased had the same specs as the Eaton that Mitsubishi was recommending. Dan O

 

[JoeS]

Perhaps we should start calling the Eaton, Leviton, Blink, etc. "chargers" by their proper name: EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment). All the commercial EVSEs are designed to be compliant with the North American standard SAE J1772 (electric vehicle conductive charge coupler). Mitsubishi says the iMiEV is J1772-compliant, which means you can plug any brand of EVSE into it.

These J1772-compliant Level 2 EVSEs are dumb pass-throughs that simply provide the appropriate connector and interlocks to take our standard 240vac 60Hz (in the USA) and feed it to the vehicle through the special connector. The primary function is to ensure that power is disabled as the connector is attached or removed from the vehicle (which means you won't see a spark and don't risk touching a live terminal). There's almost nothing inside that box, which is a pity as that would be a great place to have a kWHr meter to actually measure the energy being transferred into the vehicle so that we'd know what it's consuming.

It is the vehicle itself that contains the battery charger with its sophisticated BMS (Battery Management System), and the charger can draw up to 15A from the 240vac line (and thus the nominal 3.3KW rating using 220vac x 15A). It is the onboard BMS that is protecting the battery and as long as the input voltage is within spec (from whatever EVSE) then the battery warranty should be honored.

Surely, the charger is smart enough to stop charging when the battery is full, no matter how long we leave it plugged in? You'll note in the disclosures that Mitsubishi cautions against topping up the battery pack when it's full already. The Mitsubishi salesman was trying to tell me that it only applies to the high-power DC charger, but that's not what the lawyerish disclosure form is saying. Unlike the Leaf, the iMiEV doesn't offer us the option of only charging to 80%, so my own personal charging regimen will be to only fully charge if I'll be taking a longer trip; otherwise I'll be content with leaving it at the 60%-80% level (as seen on the vehicle's 'gas' gauge) for battery longevity. I'll be going down to around 40% charge if I won't be using the iMiEV for a while (e.g., vacation), but it would be nice to know what the parasitic battery draw is so as to preclude fully depleting it. For all we know, the vehicle's gauge may already be derated by 20% and I would be very surprised if regen is not inhibited when the "tank" is full.

As for 120vac operation, I'd sure like to know what its 120vac operating parameters are, as that 8A restriction by the portable cable (= 22 hour charge time from empty) is ludicrously conservative, IMO. But that's a different thread...

 

[Eugene]

Interesting that you mentioned that you had to go to the dealership to do this. I'm asked to do the same thing.. I wonder why was not i asked when i was signing the other documents. Is such a delay a tactic to not scare off prospect customers or just a coincidence?

 

[nt2w]

When I bought my i-MiEV in June, the Customer Disclosure Form referred to in this thread had been revised to include Aerovironment's L2 EVSE in addition to Eaton. I ended up going with Aerovironment's EVSE, installed it myself.

I was requested to sign the form prior to taking delivery- they emailed it to me and had me scan and return the signature pages.

So in my case, it wasn't an afterthought.

In addition to the EVSE question, the form included important notice about the nature of EV's and their battery system- legalistic, but meant to make sure the customer knows what they're getting into. Definitely a little off-putting, but I can understand why the company's lawyers would like this signed.

 

[Don]

Interesting that you mentioned that you had to go to the dealership to do this. I'm asked to do the same thing.. I wonder why was not i asked when i was signing the other documents. Is such a delay a tactic to not scare off prospect customers or just a coincidence?

You were asked after ther fact only because your dealer didn't have his ducks in a row when he sold you the car. Unfortunately, this isn't a rare occurance

The text highlighted in red above is Mitsu's attempt to steer you toward their business partners, Eaton and Geek Squad . . . . they probably promised to do this in their agreement with them. There is nothing there which affects your battery warranty. The only line in all of that of any real concern is the "Charging your vehicle using incompatible and/or incorrect charging equipment" which I'm sure refers to you doing something off the wall with the CHAdeMO charge port (which most of us don't even have) since all the Level 1 and Level 2 'charging equipment' is built into the car, as Joe pointed out above

Whatever Level 1 or Level 2 EVSE that you plug into the car must meet the J-1772 protocol correctly or the onboard charging equipment isn't going to recognize it and no charging will happen. The onboard charger will accept anything from 90 volts, 50/60Hz to 270 volts 50/60 Hz, but it does require the EVSE to tell it how much current it can safely supply. The charger then sets itself so it will never draw more current than the outlet can safely supply. The EVSE signals what is available to the car, the cars charging system sets itself to that amount, signals the EVSE that charging can commence and the EVSE must recognize that signal (via the J-1772 protocol) before it can close it's contactors and begin charging

The EVSE is nothing more than an 'intelligent extension cord' which connects the charging equipment in the car to the outlet in your garage. The reason the supplied EVSE charges using only 8 amps is because the manufacturer has no idea what you're going to plug that into, so they went overboard limiting the current to only 8 amps so it could safely be plugged into ANY household outlet in any house. This was to make sure an uneducated consumer couldn't create an unsafe condition and burn down his/her house. Most other household electrical items (space heaters, Microwave ovens, vacuum cleaners, etc) are all rated at 12 amps or less, so our 8 amp EVSE is VERY conservative - The EVSEs supplied with the Chevy Volt and Nissan Leaf are rated at 12 amps by comparison

When you opportunity recharge all over town, it won't necessarily be using equipment manufactured by Eaton and installed by Geek Squad either

When quick charging with the CHAdeMO port though, the 'charging equipment' is all external to the car. Using that port, it might be possible for some hobbyist to design and build something to quick charge the car which might do actual harm to the battery pack

You're free to buy whatever brand of Level 1 or Level 2 EVSE you like and from any vendor you like . . . . or you can build your own. Either way, your car warranty must be honored according to terms in the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act which is a United States federal law, (15 U.S.C. § 2301 et seq.)

If your car burns gasoline, the manufacturer cannot tell you what brand of gas you must use or who you can buy it from. So long as the gas itself meets the car manufacturers standard, it's OK to use. So long as the electricity in your garage meets the standard of your cars onboard charging equipment, it's fine to use too - The J-1772 EVSE protocol is how the charger knows that what's being supplied is safe to use. The actual charging process is always 100% controlled by the cars onboard equipment

Don