Another wont go to ready MIEV

[davidhayesnz]

I'm new to this group. Thanks so much for all the great information I have found already.

I have two MIEVs
Car A. This had a few problems including the air conditioner didn't work, air bag issues and some more. However it had a good 10.5KW battery, charged and drove just fine.
I then purchased another;
Car B with a 16Kw battery that had problems charging including it stopped charging when showing at about 60% charged and it wouldn't charge from a granny charger but it would sometimes charge with a 16amp slow charger. The battery status on the dash would also go blank at random times and then the car would not drive though it would recover from this after a variable amount of time. Otherwise the car was in in very good condition. It alos wouldnt consistently charge on a fast charger . It would keep stopping and would go about about 60% as shown on the dash.

So ....

I swapped the 10.5 Kw battery and BMU into Car B from Car A. Perhaps I was lucky doing this but Car B now with the 10.5KW battery has no issues at all so I have ended up with one very good car.

I then tried putting the 16Kw battery and BMU into Car A but it has the following issues.

Battery wont charge at all
ODB readings show all cells at either 4.01 or 4 volts. I think that means the battery is actually fully charged right? even though its showing at about 60% charged on the dash
Car wont go to ready but with turn on and has the fault light on. The lead battery will then slowly drain as the only power being supplied in the car. For a while after the 16Kw traction battery was installed the car would go to ready for about a second and then go back to not ready. That no longer happens. It just doesn't go to ready at all.

My thoughts
Good readings on all cells suggests the battery cells are OK?
At least one problem must be in the battery pack cells or the CMUs or the BMU (from under the back seat) from Car B as these were the only things swapped between cars.
So excluding the possibility of new issues the onboard charger and motor controller wiring and lead battery should be fine. - They were all working fine before the good battery was swapped out of Car A to Car B. I have tried another good small battery with no change in the problems

I have removed the traction battery and all battery packs measure at about 32volts. So this matches with ODB reading of 4 or 4.01 volts for each battery cells

Thoughts on this please. Should I try getting a replacement BMU and see what that does or is it also very possible that some of the CMUs are the problem. How might I narrow down where the problem is? Otherwise I may just keep the car for parts and breakdown the battery for use in other applications but curious to see if I can resolve this.

Many thanks for any ideas

 

[hjdlsnbc]

You have written much but not named a single error code.
The car itself would tell you why its not going into ready mode. Its telling a error code. Most error codes are known to most people here and then its known what most likely have to be done to fix the problem.
You are telling few times that you are doing something with OBD. But not what software and what hardware you use to do that.
This tool here is capable to run with about any adapter you could be using to read out the voltage of your battery: https://myimiev.com/threads/evutil-a-new-tool-supporting-the-imiev.5712/
Please create a screenshot of the DTC tab from this tool and post the screenshot (only the screenshot of the DTC with some explaining what is the model year of car, battery and so on) here: https://myimiev.com/threads/need-your-screenshots-from-evutil-dtc-tab.5713/
Then continue the discussion in this topic here you started.

BTW: The 10,5kWh battery, is this the one rare one only sold in japan that had always just 10,5kWh but is capable of about 10000 charging cycles without loosing that much capacity?

 

[kiev]

We would need to see the DTC codes thrown by the car to help with diagnostics, troubleshooting and repair.

Use one of the miev phone apps and a good OBDII dongle, or a good OBD scantool, or get a dealership service dept with MUT tool to read out the codes.

Also need to know what are the models, years, mileage of A and B?

 

[davidhayesnz]

You have written much but not named a single error code.
The car itself would tell you why its not going into ready mode. Its telling a error code. Most error codes are known to most people here and then its known what most likely have to be done to fix the problem.
You are telling few times that you are doing something with OBD. But not what software and what hardware you use to do that.
This tool here is capable to run with about any adapter you could be using to read out the voltage of your battery: https://myimiev.com/threads/evutil-a-new-tool-supporting-the-imiev.5712/
Please create a screenshot of the DTC tab from this tool and post the screenshot (only the screenshot of the DTC with some explaining what is the model year of car, battery and so on) here: https://myimiev.com/threads/need-your-screenshots-from-evutil-dtc-tab.5713/
Then continue the discussion in this topic here you started.

BTW: The 10,5kWh battery, is this the one rare one only sold in japan that had always just 10,5kWh but is capable of about 10000 charging cycles without loosing that much capacity?

yes it is the one sold in Japan. I'm having difficulty getting a descent code read on the car so getting a better dongle and trying other software. Will come back when I have something thanks

 

[hjdlsnbc]

Get OpenPort 2.0 adapter. If money is not a problem, then get the original adapter. If you have to save every possible penny, people reported that also clones of the OpenPort 2.0 work.

What issues did you have with your current adapter in combination with the EvUtil? Did you see there the battery cell values but not the DTC codes? Could you report your findings in the EvUtil topic https://myimiev.com/threads/evutil-a-new-tool-supporting-the-imiev.5712/ ?

Thanks for the final report. There was already a report here in the forum, that swapping a 88cell LEV50 pack for a 80Cell LEV50N pack just worked fine without any issues. Now you also report that the rare 10,5kWh pack that never dies could also be put in other cars without issues. Now its known that every battery pack can be put in every other car.

 

[MickeyS70]

yes it is the one sold in Japan. I'm having difficulty getting a descent code read on the car so getting a better dongle and trying other software. Will come back when I have something thanks

HobDrive (paid version) is known to work with almost every dongle, setup is a bit tricky, but @Rational ’s videos in post #9 should make it easy for you:

https://myimiev.com/threads/smartphone-tablet-apps-for-i-miev-c-zero-and-ion.4936/

 

[davidhayesnz]

Get OpenPort 2.0 adapter. If money is not a problem, then get the original adapter. If you have to save every possible penny, people reported that also clones of the OpenPort 2.0 work.

What issues did you have with your current adapter in combination with the EvUtil? Did you see there the battery cell values but not the DTC codes? Could you report your findings in the EvUtil topic https://myimiev.com/threads/evutil-a-new-tool-supporting-the-imiev.5712/ ?

Thanks for the final report. There was already a report here in the forum, that swapping a 88cell LEV50 pack for a 80Cell LEV50N pack just worked fine without any issues. Now you also report that the rare 10,5kWh pack that never dies could also be put in other cars without issues. Now its known that every battery pack can be put in every other car.

Thanks for the information. I was not able to connect to EvUtil with the adapters I have and for other apps I can see all the sensors but I cant generate a list of codes. I will need to try a clone of the openport 2.0 so will see how it goes.

Yes I thought the knowledge that the 10.5 Kw battery can be transplanted was useful.

Thanks for your help.

 

[MickeyS70]

I have removed the traction battery and all battery packs measure at about 32volts. So this matches with ODB reading of 4 or 4.01 volts for each battery cells

There are 88 (10x8 & 2x4) modules in a 16kWh pack, therefore not all of them could be 32V?

Without DTCs my best guess it that the voltages read stable when idle but fluctuate when charging and therefore stopping the process ( @alviseven has had a similar issue which was caused by a faulty CMU)

Thanks for the information. I was not able to connect to EvUtil with the adapters I have and for other apps I can see all the sensors but I cant generate a list of codes. I will need to try a clone of the openport 2.0 so will see how it goes.

The most reliable apps to read/clear DTCs on a triplet via OBD Bluetooth dongle are the paid Android versions of HobDrive and CarScanner. A good choice (although expensive) for a dongle is OBDLink LX as it’s been reported to work reliably with all ‘triplet approved’ apps.

 

[alviseven]

Your initial description of car b certainly sounds to have similar symptoms to mine. Dropping battery readings mid drive , screen going blank, charging to about 60 or 80 percent, intermittent charge dropping out seemingly making you think that the obc is faulty?
All narrowed down to a faulty cmu on my car which sounds like you have transplanted to car a.
If you have opened original car b battery you will know colour of cmu assume green. If car a is Japan import does it battery had red cmu boards like mine.
I never tried the whole pack transplant complete but did find a red cmu could work within a green set of cmu boards.
Wonder if your car a had a red set of boards in which case the green battery will not work in car a at all or am I missing reading this information?


I bought a ebay dongle paid about 40GBP for one but had to buy paid version of hobdrive about 20GBP to read DTC codes. Find it very hard to read anything else but OBDzero works well to read cell values

If your car (still no dates given) is that early it might be like my spare donor and not have a full complement of VIN numbers.

 

[hjdlsnbc]

@MickeyS70
Why should a person want to spend about 80$ without shipment cost for a OBDLink LX and then get just some third party software tools that does not support the functionality that original Mitsubishi MUT-3 SE software provide when the same person could spend less then 20$ for a OpenPort 2.0 clone with free shipment and then have even more functionality then the costly service center at Mitsubishi? With OpenPort 2.0 you can run MUT-3 SE or the third party things like BMU firmware modding.
You cant mod the BMU with OBDLink LX, you also cant run MUT-3 SE with OBDLink LX. OBDLink LX is by a magnitude factor less usefull and cost at the same time more.

 

[MickeyS70]

@MickeyS70
Why should a person want to spend about 80$ without shipment cost for a OBDLink LX and then get just some third party software tools that does not support the functionality that original Mitsubishi MUT-3 SE software provide when the same person could spend less then 20$ for a OpenPort 2.0 clone with free shipment and then have even more functionality then the costly service center at Mitsubishi? With OpenPort 2.0 you can run MUT-3 SE or the third party things like BMU firmware modding.
You cant mod the BMU with OBDLink LX, you also cant run MUT-3 SE with OBDLink LX. OBDLink LX is by a magnitude factor less usefull and cost at the same time more.

Horses for courses, not everyone wants to mod the BMU, some folks are perfectly happy to follow some simple online videos to just read out and clear DTCs with an old Android phone…

 

[davidhayesnz]

There are 88 (10x8 & 2x4) modules in a 16kWh pack, therefore not all of them could be 32V?

Without DTCs my best guess it that the voltages read stable when idle but fluctuate when charging and therefore stopping the process ( @alviseven has had a similar issue which was caused by a faulty CMU)


The most reliable apps to read/clear DTCs on a triplet via OBD Bluetooth dongle are the paid Android versions of HobDrive and CarScanner. A good choice (although expensive) for a dongle is OBDLink LX as it’s been reported to work reliably with all ‘triplet approved’ apps.

Oh yes. The two smaller banks are showing at half that voltage of 32 for all the others. Sorry for the confusion. So all banks are giving me a direct read that is the same as I get using "Car Scanner" All cells are reading at 4 or 4.01 volts when I use Car Scanner and the module reads also match the number of cells each various ODB dongles with the voltage of 4 or 4.01.

Car Scanner just hangs when I try to read the error codes with the Dongles I have - Veepeak OBDCheck BLE and another brand. It does a great job of reading all the data though.

I've ordered the OBDLink MX+ that works with IOS and hopefully I can then read the error codes.

Thanks for the suggestion. Shame I cant put a load on the battery to see that now. Will hopefully have some codes in a week or so.

There are 88 (10x8 & 2x4) modules in a 16kWh pack, therefore not all of them could be 32V?

Without DTCs my best guess it that the voltages read stable when idle but fluctuate when charging and therefore stopping the process ( @alviseven has had a similar issue which was caused by a faulty CMU)


The most reliable apps to read/clear DTCs on a triplet via OBD Bluetooth dongle are the paid Android versions of HobDrive and CarScanner. A good choice (although expensive) for a dongle is OBDLink LX as it’s been reported to work reliably with all ‘triplet approved’ apps.

 

[davidhayesnz]

Your initial description of car b certainly sounds to have similar symptoms to mine. Dropping battery readings mid drive , screen going blank, charging to about 60 or 80 percent, intermittent charge dropping out seemingly making you think that the obc is faulty?
All narrowed down to a faulty cmu on my car which sounds like you have transplanted to car a.
If you have opened original car b battery you will know colour of cmu assume green. If car a is Japan import does it battery had red cmu boards like mine.
I never tried the whole pack transplant complete but did find a red cmu could work within a green set of cmu boards.
Wonder if your car a had a red set of boards in which case the green battery will not work in car a at all or am I missing reading this information?


I bought a ebay dongle paid about 40GBP for one but had to buy paid version of hobdrive about 20GBP to read DTC codes. Find it very hard to read anything else but OBDzero works well to read cell values

If your car (still no dates given) is that early it might be like my spare donor and not have a full complement of VIN numbers.

Thanks and I will followup re the colors of the CMU. The car details as listed in Carjam in New Zealand are

Car A (Had the 10.k KW battery transplanted to Car B)

Year: 2012

Make: MITSUBISHI

Model: I-MIEV

Colour: White

Body Style: Hatchback

VIN:ⓘ 7AT0CJ41X17301909

Plate:ⓘ KNB90

Engine No:ⓘ COVERED

Chassis:ⓘ HA3W-0301909

Car B (Had a 16Kw battery that I cant get to work in Car A. Car B is going great with its transplanted battery and BMU)

Year: 2011

Make: MITSUBISHI

Model: I-MIEV

Colour: White

Body Style: Hatchback

VIN:ⓘ 7AT0CJ41X16100608

Plate:ⓘ KJK271

Engine No:ⓘ COVERED

Chassis:ⓘ HA3W-0100608

 

[MickeyS70]

Oh yes. The two smaller banks are showing at half that voltage of 32 for all the others. Sorry for the confusion. So all banks are giving me a direct read that is the same as I get using "Car Scanner" All cells are reading at 4 or 4.01 volts when I use Car Scanner and the module reads also match the number of cells each various ODB dongles with the voltage of 4 or 4.01.

Ok, the car stops charging once a cell reaches 4.1V, so there is still a bit to go.

I've ordered the OBDLink MX+ that works with IOS and hopefully I can then read the error codes.

Not saying it doesn’t work with iOS but I never had any success as I only had Bluetooth dongles and seemingly an iPhone requires a Wi-Fi connection, but if all else fails, try Android via Bluetooth

Shame I cant put a load on the battery to see that now.

You could try the opposite and plug it in while monitoring cell voltages, if some of them reach 4.1V immediately or drop below 3V then you won’t need DTCs…

 

[davidhayesnz]

Here is the 16Kw battery. I assume this is a "Green" CMU board shown in one of the banks. I never opened the 10.5Kw battery so unfortunately I don't know what color the boards are. It certainly reads very differently in Car Scanner with different voltages showing compared to the 16Kw -- not really sure if they were reading correctly. I did swap the BMU's under the car seat so they matched the battery. What is true is the 16Kw battery and or the BMU had a problem (s) in the original car B though the car would (usually) go live. When it didn't go live it was also not showing any battery state of charge on the dash. When in Car A the behavior is a bit different. For a while it would go live for a second or so and then not. So far the charging behavior is the same i.e. wont charge about about 60% and cell voltages at 4 and 4.01. Am I getting to the point where I will need to test the CMUs? Is there something on this site you used to do that or was it from ODB codes alone? Thanks for your help.

 

[MickeyS70]

Here is the 16Kw battery. I assume this is a "Green" CMU board shown in one of the banks. I never opened the 10.5Kw battery so unfortunately I don't know what color the boards are.

If it was built in 2012 then they are most likely green also.

It certainly reads very differently in Car Scanner with different voltages showing compared to the 16Kw -- not really sure if they were reading correctly. I did swap the BMU's under the car seat so they matched the battery.

Yes, LTO cells have lower voltage levels.

So far the charging behavior is the same i.e. wont charge about about 60% and cell voltages at 4 and 4.01.

This just means that the BMU’s stored capacity value doesn’t match with what is measured using coulomb counting method, a battery calibration will take care of this, but first you need to resolve the charging issue.

Am I getting to the point where I will need to test the CMUs? Is there something on this site you used to do that or was it from ODB codes alone? Thanks for your help.

The CMUs communicate with the BMU on a separate CAN bus, it’s possible to decode these messages with an Arduino or similar as the BMU sits under the back bench.

However it’s far simpler to let the car itself determine the problem and then read out the DTCs…

 

[hjdlsnbc]

Horses for courses, not everyone wants to mod the BMU, some folks are perfectly happy to follow some simple online videos to just read out and clear DTCs with an old Android phone…

Because this did not make much sense, i wrote this here to try to help:
https://myimiev.com/threads/overvie...ters-their-functionality-and-the-future.5719/

Now i read the person ordered a about 120$ OBDLink MX+ just to read out error codes. This does not make any sense.
@davidhayesnz seem to just want to fix the car. This is section number 1 in the today written overview.
The task of reading DTC codes, running diagnostic functions Mitsubishi provided to its technicians, clearing DTC codes, all of that is typical task in a Mitsubishi service center with MUT-3 SE software they use there. The Mitsubishi service center software functionality can be got by using OpenPort 2.0 adapter for more then 100$ less then the price of a OBDLink MX+.