2013 Mitsubishi I Suggestions

Here's a list of all the things that I thought should be improved for the 2013 I-Miev or later. (Red is for long term changes)

1) Cruise Control

2) More colors such as blue, red, green. (Discontinue the raspberry color)

3) New SAE quick charge port.

4) Shifter changed for left side steering wheel.

5) 6.6kw Charger.

6) Better seat material.

7) GPS should include EVSE locations. (Get data from Plugshare when smartphone connected?)

8) Show various energy information on the nav screen.

9) Option for light colored seats and dash.

10) Some slight aerodynamic improvements.

11) Reduce price by at least $2000.

I'll add:

Allow the ability to see both trip distance and Range Remaining at the same time.

Jenn

Well., there you go

What a great suggestion - I'll BET this one gets their attention

Just add another $3K worth of stuff . . . . and then cut the current price by $2K and everybody's happy! :lol:

Don

Climate controls need to be higher up so you don't have to take your eyes so far off the road. I understand previous models had them higher and horizontal.

Don said:

Well., there you go

What a great suggestion - I'll BET this one gets their attention

Just add another $3K worth of stuff . . . . and then cut the current price by $2K and everybody's happy! :lol:

Don

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Why do you think Mitsubishi only sold 79 in april? It's only going to get worse if no improvements are made.

fjpod said:

Climate controls need to be higher up so you don't have to take your eyes so far off the road. I understand previous models had them higher and horizontal.

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Yes, the Euro version has the 3 knobs in a horizontal alignment, but I don't think they are any higher than our top knob

I find that once I have the CC all 'set up' for our normal use, the only knob I have to touch is the top one . . . . turning it one click CW or CCW to tweak the comfort level. This is for use with the A/C but it looks to me as though it will work the same in the winter with the heater

Don

imeev said:

Don said:

Well., there you go

What a great suggestion - I'll BET this one gets their attention

Just add another $3K worth of stuff . . . . and then cut the current price by $2K and everybody's happy! :lol:

Don

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Why do you think Mitsubishi only sold 79 in april? It's only going to get worse if no improvements are made.

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Whenever you bring out something brand new and totally different, you've gotta expect that it's going to take some time to catch on. Selling only 79 of them at a profit is much better than selling 500 of them at a loss. Sales will get better once there are enough cars on the road for the public to become familiar with them. I know we get lots of questions from friends and neighbors and we've taken several of them for a test ride. The car just as it is will sell itself to lots of folks once they are exposed to it. I know I had lots of interest, read everything I could find and then was really blown away the first time I drove one

Is it perfect? Of course not, nothing ever is, especially not with the first generation. Should they make some tweaks? Of course, but I wouldn't look for anything major - Certainly nothing that's going to increase the price of the car, since it's probably not terribly profitable as it is

They're offering an 8 year, 100K battery warranty which I doubt they could do if it came with a 6.6 Kw charger. As it is with the smaller charger I suspect we're going to find that lots of people will be hugely dissatisfied 3 or 4 years from now when the car will only go 35 or 40 miles because fast charging the battery has reduced it's capacity by 30 or 40%. So long as it hasn't developed a bad cell, Mitsu is not going to replace those range reduced batteries under warranty either - That's why we all signed arbitration agreements I suspect . . . . they KNOW many of us are going to have battery issues in the future and we'll be expecting some sort of adjustment toward the price of a new battery. A 6.6 Kw charger would only increase those problems times 4

It takes an hour to recharge a DeWalt 18v 1.7 Ah drill battery . . . . you'd better have 3 or 4 if you want to keep on working. Could they sell you a 20 minute charger for it? Sure they could, but you'd not be too happy when it ate up your battery life and you had to replace them every few months. With the battery technology as it currently is, the last thing the car needs is a more powerful charger. People who need to drive 200 miles per day should not be buying these cars. Maybe one day battery technology will improve so that you can fast charge them and still get great battery life, but we're not there yet.

The price probably WILL come down a bit in future years as they develop better batteries, but they can't lower the price if they're doing things like reshaping the body or doubling the size of the battery charger

Don

Don

Thanks for explaining. I guess the entire list is for what should eventually be added to the next generation I-miev. 2013 is probably too soon to add numbers 5, 10, 11, but the rest is quite basic. If something adds too much to the price, then put it as an option.

I love the car, and what it stands for, and it is engineered well, but you can tell they didn't pay enough attention to converting it from "Japanese use" to "North American use". ...maybe the cost would have been even higher if they had??

I agree that charging your battery bank faster (in theory) will reduce your battery life.

However, it seems to me that the direction things are going is to tout "fast charging ie. DC charging. They claim that you will be able to charge 80% of your "dead" battery pack in less than 30 minutes. I do not see me running my battery bank to almost empty then having to recharge it fully. I can see every now and them to charge for say 10-15 minutes to get me back to say 75% SOC to get rid of range anxiety" now and then. After all the newer EV's coming out (Ford Focus, Honda FIT EV will all have shorter charge times but they will also have the same battery guarantee - 8 years , 100,000 miles. So do they know something we do not? What would be a very useful fact is to track an MIEV owner that only charges with 120V and another that only charges with 240V.

I see the ASE plug of the future being a 3-Way charger. 120V, 240V and straight DC. Having two separate charging ports has to go. I think it was pretty cleaver to have the plug they do use both 120 and 240V and I guess I could see no technical reason why you could not have another set of holes that work with high voltage DC. Only time will tell who wins that race.

I think that they should offer a lot of options on the 2013 models, like CC, etc. They way they can still keep a reasonable base price and still give the customer what they want. Every one has different needs. For example I would not have been without the cold climat e package living in Colorado. But why would you need it in Florida or Southern CA?

One thing that definitely needs to be done is making the 12V system totally separate from the main battery bank. I have found a noticeable decrease in range when I use the heater or AC. The good thing is that normally you do not have to use much AC or Heat as you would in an ICE car simple because you do not have a ICE engine in front of you heating up you space in the first place. You could easily put larger 12V batteries in the front of the vehicle.

My impression is that, once the decision was made to export the car which had proven to be successful in both Japan and Europe, their primary change was to widen the vehicle and then they focused on expediting getting it to market. I'm personally happy that they did this and I recognize many of the compromises they made to simply get the vehicle into our hands first after Nissan's Leaf. Although not as polished as the Leaf, I'm very happy with the iMiEV as it admirably fulfills our need for a utilitarian medium-range vehicle, yet with a battery pack that's leading-edge. In our case, we rarely spend more than 1/2-hour at a time in the iMiEV and thus many creature-comforts are inconsequential.

I support Jenn's suggestion of having a separate tripmeter and RR display, but I've circumvented this 'deficiency' with a $60 GPS which has this feature as well as providing me distance to my destination, simultaneously.

My personal emphasis would be on aerodynamics, as that is THE major highway range-inhibitor: rear-wheelwell skirts, full underbody pan, nose cleanup, sleeker external mirror housings, and something to mitigate our squared-off rear end (vortex generators?) are just a few thoughts.

Regarding CHAdeMO or even a 6.6kW charger, if the iMiEV is the only vehicle in the family then it might make some sense. In my case, I don't need them since I opportunity-charge often and would not want the extra expense when purchasing the vehicle. Heck, I use 120V for charging much of the time, anyway. For longer trips I use my ICE/hybrid car.

mievsolar - need to do the math before suggesting separating the 12v system from the HV traction pack. For example, a 1200W heater would draw 100Amps at 12v which would require an outlandishly-heavy battery and cabling. Conventional cars run their heaters from the waste heat of the inefficient ICEs. I've been quite pleased with the a/c in our iMiEV not killing our range inordinately. Perhaps the request to Mitsubishi should be to give us the option of paying more money for a larger battery pack, like Tesla.

If anything, I would like Mitsubishi to further lighten our cars and remove stuff and lower the price instead of adding gadgetry.

mievsolar said:

One thing that definitely needs to be done is making the 12V system totally separate from the main battery bank. I have found a noticeable decrease in range when I use the heater or AC. You could easily put larger 12V batteries in the front of the vehicle.

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They figured out many years ago that what you're suggesting makes no sense - It would be a big step in the wrong direction

12 volts is just way too impractical for heating or air conditioning loads. Even a measly 750 watt heater would suck 60 amps at 12 volts and the A/C would be 3X that. If you stuck 300 Ah of 12 volt batteries in the front of the car just to run the climate control (which is probably about what you'd need to run the A/C for an hour) you'd be lugging around a few hundred pounds of useless weight when ever you're driving and NOT using any climate control - That extra weight would shorten the range of the car . . . . and it would be sitting there doing nothing. By powering everything from the 330 volt traction battery, you have the HUGE advantage of being able to use all the energy from that otherwise wasted weight to power the car.

Yes, using the A/C shortens the range available by 15 or 20% if it's really hot out, but being able to use ALL the stored energy to move the car makes lots more sense than lugging around stored energy that you can't use when you don't need the A/C . . . . doesn't it?

The engineers who design EV's figured all this out eons ago - Having separate power sources for all the things a car needs power for would be so wasteful that nobody would ever consider doing that

Don

mievsolar said:

I agree that charging your battery bank faster (in theory) will reduce your battery life.

However, it seems to me that the direction things are going is to tout "fast charging ie. DC charging. They claim that you will be able to charge 80% of your "dead" battery pack in less than 30 minutes. I do not see me running my battery bank to almost empty then having to recharge it fully. I can see every now and them to charge for say 10-15 minutes to get me back to say 75% SOC to get rid of range anxiety" now and then. After all the newer EV's coming out (Ford Focus, Honda FIT EV will all have shorter charge times but they will also have the same battery guarantee - 8 years , 100,000 miles. So do they know something we do not? What would be a very useful fact is to track an MIEV owner that only charges with 120V and another that only charges with 240V.

I see the ASE plug of the future being a 3-Way charger. 120V, 240V and straight DC. Having two separate charging ports has to go. I think it was pretty cleaver to have the plug they do use both 120 and 240V and I guess I could see no technical reason why you could not have another set of holes that work with high voltage DC. Only time will tell who wins that race.

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Yes, it does seem that all of the new EVs to be released next year will have a 6.6kw charger. The I-MIEV would be the only EV with a 3.3kw, which is definitely going to hurt sales. There not really anyway to know just how much it will affect battery capacity over time. The battery warranty probably won't cover capacity loss, only a bad cell or something like that. One major advantage of the 6.6kw charger is that it makes public EVSE much more useful, cutting down range anxiety. Also the new SAE plug revealed last month does exactly what you described.

"Also the new SAE plug revealed last month does exactly what you described"

Great! Looks like that wish has already come true, but I think I will be able to live just fine for a few yeas without the fast charge option. At first I thought I made a big mistake by not getting it until I realized even if I had the option there are no - 0- fast charge stations in the Denver area. I figure it will take at least 2-3 years for them to eve start so I figure maybe 3-5 years before they are at teh same place where the 240 V stations are today. By then I may just trade in my 2012 iMEV for another one or another model because by then I will have so many more choices then I do today.

I just love having the 240 V charge stations (all free at the moment) and Plugshare iPhone app. That is awesome all by itself.

Now here are two more suggestions form the wife:

1. Tilt wheel
2. Put all the gauges in the center like the Toyota Echo has so the steering wheel does not get in the way of seeing your gauges (she is short)

I doubt the difference to the battery between 3.3 kW and 6.6 kW charging is significant. At 3.3 kW, you are charging at 1/5C (assuming the pack is 330 volts nomial and is made up of 50 amp cells), and at 6.6 kW, you are charging at 2/5C, or 10 amps and 20 amps respectively. The motor at full power pulls 50 kW, or 151.5 amps, just over 3C, and it regens at 20 kW (I think, not sure), or 60.6 amps, or 1 1/5C. I understand that the motor only pulls the full current temporarily, but during your normal cruising with an economy of 270 wh/mile at 50 mph, you are using about 13.5 kW (41 amps). I would imagine that motor current affects battery life more than charging current (Quick charge excepted).

While I agree that cruise control was an oversight, why don't these cars have sunroof's? It's more aerodynamic than windows down, and doesn't use as much energy as the A/C. The Volt would be a perfect candidate to replace that black roof.

PV1 said:

. . . . why don't these cars have sunroof's? It's more aerodynamic than windows down, and doesn't use as much energy as the A/C

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A sunroof is usually about an $800 option on most cars - That's probably why we don't have one

I think the i is touted as the 'affordable EV' and you just can't have everything and still be affordable. Look for the sunroof (and the 6.6Kw charger) on the $40K Ford Focus . . . . nothing 'affordable' about it

Don

Yeah, c'mon people. This is the affordable EV. We dont want to be weighed down by sun roofs, plush seats and armrests, and rear seat coat hooks.

My Cavalier has a sunroof, plus the sport package and several other options costing more than the roof, and it all added $2,500 to the price. I'd rather have a sunroof than heated mirrors and a battery heater. I park in a garage that never goes below 40 degrees or above 80 degrees. The sunroof can't weigh much more than the sheet metal, insulation, and headliner it replaces. Change the shifter and its pedestal out for buttons on the dash and call it even. Or make power steering and A/C options, I can do without power steering, the car's light enough. Making these options would lighten the car, extend range, and reduce costs.

mievsolar said:

Great! Looks like that wish has already come true, but I think I will be able to live just fine for a few yeas without the fast charge option. At first I thought I made a big mistake by not getting it until I realized even if I had the option there are no - 0- fast charge stations in the Denver area. I figure it will take at least 2-3 years for them to eve start so I figure maybe 3-5 years before they are at teh same place where the 240 V stations are today. By then I may just trade in my 2012 iMEV for another one or another model because by then I will have so many more choices then I do today.

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For the past few years, there have been countless announcements for building hundreds or thousands of DC charging stations. Then you look at a map, and there is around 10 in the entire country. :lol:

PV1 said:

My Cavalier has a sunroof, plus the sport package and several other options costing more than the roof, and it all added $2,500 to the price. I'd rather have a sunroof than heated mirrors and a battery heater. I park in a garage that never goes below 40 degrees or above 80 degrees. The sunroof can't weigh much more than the sheet metal, insulation, and headliner it replaces. Change the shifter and its pedestal out for buttons on the dash and call it even. Or make power steering and A/C options, I can do without power steering, the car's light enough. Making these options would lighten the car, extend range, and reduce costs.

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Any and all 'options' add complexity and cost to the production line at the factory - Sticking a nav package in the dash in place ot the standard radio is relatively simple to do . . . . a sunroof requires a completely different car body which means that option creates another line at the factory. I think this complexity explains why we only got 4 colors to choose from

Putting most of what American car makers call options into one standard package is what the Japanese have become really good at. My Mazda came with most of what you could buy as options on my son's Cavalier as standard equipment. Probably 90% of us want A/C, P/S, P/W, C/C on the wheel, power mirrors, tilt wheel, intermittant wipers, speakers in the front and back so all of those 'options' are standard equipment. You get a choice of 6 disc stereo, premium wheels, auto trans and floor mats - Everything else is already there as it's cheaper to build one 'standard car' than it is one with 8 or 10 different options

The more we use the car, the more amazed I am at how well they pulled this off. The seats are simple, light and obviously inexpensive - They were never designed to be sat in for 6 or 8 hours since that's impossible in this kind of car, so they saved a bundle on the interior, and they didn't offer many options - It's a 'standard car' and you basically take it or leave it . . . . it would cost too much to do it any other way. The money all went into the technology with as few frills as possible and they kept the price quite low, when you consider what you got. I'm impressed

I'm still perplexed by the idea of the $2700 nav package though - I'd expect to see something like that in a Lexus, but not in an around town commuter car with a range of 75 or 80 miles. My dealer said 'maybe it makes sense if you live in Los Angeles'. I don't see any way I can get lost here within 40 miles of home. Still, I'll bet it was a 5 minute installation into the 'standard car'. If they could have done a sunroof like that. I expect we'd have one as an option

Don