jray3
Well-known member
This hot weather could be enough to raise the voltage of a sick cell just enough to get it started once more. I'd be tempted to roll it out into the sunshine and turn the key in the afternoon...
Car won't start after storage
- Thread starter karellen
- Start date
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PV1
Well-known member
Wouldn't it be better to plug in rather than trying to start at this point? That way the battery spends the least amount of time powering the car.
I got to stop over and take a look at this car today with my ODBLinkMX bluetooth adapter and cheap LG Android phone running CanIon138.
First thing we did was check the 12V batteries, both the original flooded iMiEV 12V battery and the recent replacement. Both tested fine with the multimeter. I also ran a 100A load tester on both. Sometimes batteries look fine, until you actually put a real load on them - THAT'S when you find out they are bad.
In this case, both 12V batteries were good, so we could totally rule that out of the equation.
On the car dashboard, putting in the key and turning the car on, the car powers up, but does NOT go into the Ready Mode. I also tried testing a few things that would run on the 12V system vs the main battery pack. For example, I turned the blower to max. The blower fan works great, running from the 12V system. However, running the Air Conditioning or the HEAT, I got neither cold or hot air coming out the vent. So, it looked like none of the accessories that run from the traction pack were working.
There was also an error on the dashboard - RBS - I've never seen that one before. Is that "Regenerative Braking System"?
On the dashboard, the battery showed as completely empty. When trying to plug the car in to charge, it simply didn't take at all - I didn't even hear the momently clickity-clack followed by a momentary fan noise that I get on my car if I try to charge it when already full.
We plugged in the OBDLinkMX and got the canIon software running on the phone.
I made some screen grabs of the software. Those are at the end of the post.
I can tell you that in the Battery Status screen, NOTHING showed up at all. In some other screens, like the ACC Pedal History, I could confirm that I was getting real-time data, as the values changed when I pressed the accerlerator. I also didn't get any information on the Heater or AirConditioning History Screens - again, devices that pull power from the traction battery pack, rather than the 12V system.
The battery pack State of Charge listed as 122% - clearly, that can't be right. On the dashboard, the battery showed as dead. When I looked on the CanIon Cockpit view, the battery meter there showed as completely full!
The CanIon "Volts History" showed a flat line at 6,600. Again, another thing that sounds like an error showing a completely out of range number.
Matt had the other app. I don't remember the name - "BatMonEV"? Something like that. He ran it on his phone from my bluetooth adapter. That app DID show total pack voltage, and more interestingly, showed the Delta V from the highest to lowest cells, which I believe was 4.1V and 2.1V. Clearly, THAT indicates a problem with at least one cell in the battery pack.
So, as it is right now, to the best of my skills and abilities, it sounds like the battery pack itself has problems, and possibly the BMU as well. The car needs to be taken in for warranty work, and possibly have the entire battery pack replaced.
Although the car can not be DRIVEN up onto a truck or trailer, at least it still CAN be shifted into neutral and have the steering unlocked.
Here's some of the other screen shots for you to analyze.
First thing we did was check the 12V batteries, both the original flooded iMiEV 12V battery and the recent replacement. Both tested fine with the multimeter. I also ran a 100A load tester on both. Sometimes batteries look fine, until you actually put a real load on them - THAT'S when you find out they are bad.
In this case, both 12V batteries were good, so we could totally rule that out of the equation.
On the car dashboard, putting in the key and turning the car on, the car powers up, but does NOT go into the Ready Mode. I also tried testing a few things that would run on the 12V system vs the main battery pack. For example, I turned the blower to max. The blower fan works great, running from the 12V system. However, running the Air Conditioning or the HEAT, I got neither cold or hot air coming out the vent. So, it looked like none of the accessories that run from the traction pack were working.
There was also an error on the dashboard - RBS - I've never seen that one before. Is that "Regenerative Braking System"?
On the dashboard, the battery showed as completely empty. When trying to plug the car in to charge, it simply didn't take at all - I didn't even hear the momently clickity-clack followed by a momentary fan noise that I get on my car if I try to charge it when already full.
We plugged in the OBDLinkMX and got the canIon software running on the phone.
I made some screen grabs of the software. Those are at the end of the post.
I can tell you that in the Battery Status screen, NOTHING showed up at all. In some other screens, like the ACC Pedal History, I could confirm that I was getting real-time data, as the values changed when I pressed the accerlerator. I also didn't get any information on the Heater or AirConditioning History Screens - again, devices that pull power from the traction battery pack, rather than the 12V system.
The battery pack State of Charge listed as 122% - clearly, that can't be right. On the dashboard, the battery showed as dead. When I looked on the CanIon Cockpit view, the battery meter there showed as completely full!
The CanIon "Volts History" showed a flat line at 6,600. Again, another thing that sounds like an error showing a completely out of range number.
Matt had the other app. I don't remember the name - "BatMonEV"? Something like that. He ran it on his phone from my bluetooth adapter. That app DID show total pack voltage, and more interestingly, showed the Delta V from the highest to lowest cells, which I believe was 4.1V and 2.1V. Clearly, THAT indicates a problem with at least one cell in the battery pack.
So, as it is right now, to the best of my skills and abilities, it sounds like the battery pack itself has problems, and possibly the BMU as well. The car needs to be taken in for warranty work, and possibly have the entire battery pack replaced.
Although the car can not be DRIVEN up onto a truck or trailer, at least it still CAN be shifted into neutral and have the steering unlocked.
Here's some of the other screen shots for you to analyze.
phb10186
Well-known member
Good of you to help out.
Sounds increasingly likely that there is something wrong with a cell or other component in the TB or associated controllers.
SOC of 122% is clearly wrong - but I cant fathom why it would throw that number, unless its a code in the algorithm that points out the bad cell? - could it be cell 22???
Speculation and not that valuable, as the back will need to be changed anyway by the looks of things.
Good and bad at the same time I suppose at 25K miles....
Now wouldn't it be wonderful if the car had a transformer that allowed you to connect a 12v to it to give you enough juice just to drive the thing on to a trailer.
Sounds increasingly likely that there is something wrong with a cell or other component in the TB or associated controllers.
SOC of 122% is clearly wrong - but I cant fathom why it would throw that number, unless its a code in the algorithm that points out the bad cell? - could it be cell 22???
Speculation and not that valuable, as the back will need to be changed anyway by the looks of things.
Good and bad at the same time I suppose at 25K miles....
Now wouldn't it be wonderful if the car had a transformer that allowed you to connect a 12v to it to give you enough juice just to drive the thing on to a trailer.
mdbuilder
Well-known member
That car looks like mine 
If you do not have time to get it to the dealer and need to load it yourself on a trailer, just buy yourself a hand winch / come along or chainfall at harbor freight. No sweat...
If you do not have time to get it to the dealer and need to load it yourself on a trailer, just buy yourself a hand winch / come along or chainfall at harbor freight. No sweat...
A lot of the numbers on the dash display are wrong or impossible. Were you even able to pick up cell voltages with the CANION? Even if there was a bad cell, the data displays are all wacked out so something else is going on. You may have a ECU issue giving bad information to the rest of the systems in the vehicle. I would go with the bad cell theory as a first choice but after seeing your dash display maybe not. A bad cell won't give out that kind of information---you've got a pretty healthy overcharge going on . I might be wrong but I would go with a controller problem.
BTW--what work has been done to this car in the past? Just a question as I see from the picture of IP of your car, the cover that surrounds it is installed incorrectly like someone has had it apart before.
. I might be wrong but I would go with a controller problem.BTW--what work has been done to this car in the past? Just a question as I see from the picture of IP of your car, the cover that surrounds it is installed incorrectly like someone has had it apart before.
PV1
Well-known member
Very interesting.
Did EVBatMon happen to identify the low cell? At 2.1 volts, it is way to low to do anything. It could be that there isn't enough voltage in that cell block to properly power that particular management board, and that is what is causing errors.
Ben, what was the total pack voltage shown in EVBatMon?
At this point, call ahead to one of the dealers where you'll be moving to, and schedule an appointment for battery problems. See if the transport can drop the car off at the dealer since it can't move under its own power.
As a notice to all i-MiEV owners (forum members and those just reading), if your i-MiEV doesn't have a full charge after the car finishes charging (charge light on EVSE goes out under normal weather conditions) for two charges in a row, please make a post on this forum. So far, the only known cause of the car failing to fully charge is a cell with a lower charge than the others. It could be that the car had been parked for a while and the pack is simply out of balance, which will eventually correct itself. However, If it does turn out to be a failing cell, the car may end up being inoperable in a short period of time. For example, my i-MiEV suffered a cell failure in May of 2015. Over the course of 12 days (time from initially discovering the problem and calling the dealer until my appointment date), a "full" charge went from 13 bars to 4 bars (just over 3/4 charge to 1/4 charge). It took 2 charges to go the 30 miles to the dealer. It took 3.5 weeks for me to get my car back with a new battery pack.
Did EVBatMon happen to identify the low cell? At 2.1 volts, it is way to low to do anything. It could be that there isn't enough voltage in that cell block to properly power that particular management board, and that is what is causing errors.
Ben, what was the total pack voltage shown in EVBatMon?
At this point, call ahead to one of the dealers where you'll be moving to, and schedule an appointment for battery problems. See if the transport can drop the car off at the dealer since it can't move under its own power.
As a notice to all i-MiEV owners (forum members and those just reading), if your i-MiEV doesn't have a full charge after the car finishes charging (charge light on EVSE goes out under normal weather conditions) for two charges in a row, please make a post on this forum. So far, the only known cause of the car failing to fully charge is a cell with a lower charge than the others. It could be that the car had been parked for a while and the pack is simply out of balance, which will eventually correct itself. However, If it does turn out to be a failing cell, the car may end up being inoperable in a short period of time. For example, my i-MiEV suffered a cell failure in May of 2015. Over the course of 12 days (time from initially discovering the problem and calling the dealer until my appointment date), a "full" charge went from 13 bars to 4 bars (just over 3/4 charge to 1/4 charge). It took 2 charges to go the 30 miles to the dealer. It took 3.5 weeks for me to get my car back with a new battery pack.
Yep, lots of numbers were out of whack, or completely out of their possible range. So, I would imagine that would mean one of the computers is not working right, or one cell being so messed up that it's really funking up other things.
On CanIon, the cell voltages were not displayed at all. That's the screen grab that's pretty much all black. Normally, that would have the bar graph of all the cells.
I believe that EVBatMon DID display the low cell. (I think it was 22?) That software was on Karellen's phone, not mine, so I don't have any screen grabs from it.
I thought it was unusual that there was some information that seemed to display right in EVBatMon, but did not in CanIon. For example, I remember that the pack voltage listed in EVBatMon was somewhere in the 300's, whereas in CanIon, it was totally out of range.
On CanIon, the cell voltages were not displayed at all. That's the screen grab that's pretty much all black. Normally, that would have the bar graph of all the cells.
I believe that EVBatMon DID display the low cell. (I think it was 22?) That software was on Karellen's phone, not mine, so I don't have any screen grabs from it.
I thought it was unusual that there was some information that seemed to display right in EVBatMon, but did not in CanIon. For example, I remember that the pack voltage listed in EVBatMon was somewhere in the 300's, whereas in CanIon, it was totally out of range.
PV1
Well-known member
If the pack is fully charged with one cell at 2.1 volts, that would put pack voltage at 359 volts (vs. 361 volts for a full charge).
I think the difference is that CaniOn passively reads the CANbus, whereas EVBatMon specifically requests certain information.
Good news is, the BMU, cell management boards, and cells are all considered one part by Mitsubishi (traction battery), so one solution should fix everything (change out battery). It's also akin to getting a new car, as the battery cycle count defaults with the new pack and the car will last that much longer. Bad news is, the car is useless until that battery is changed out, but it's light enough that 2-3 people should be able to easily move it (it looks like it is already facing downhill, that's a plus).
I think the difference is that CaniOn passively reads the CANbus, whereas EVBatMon specifically requests certain information.
Good news is, the BMU, cell management boards, and cells are all considered one part by Mitsubishi (traction battery), so one solution should fix everything (change out battery). It's also akin to getting a new car, as the battery cycle count defaults with the new pack and the car will last that much longer. Bad news is, the car is useless until that battery is changed out, but it's light enough that 2-3 people should be able to easily move it (it looks like it is already facing downhill, that's a plus).
kiev
Well-known member
Good job Ben.
The incorrectly installed instrument cluster is definitely a clue that something is flaky.
Were all the fuses and relays checked and found to be good--some of the control units (EVECU, BMU, etc) get 12V power on various fuses, so if a fuse goes that unit will not work.
The power time history shows that someone was punching the throttle and letting off about 4 minutes before the end, then there is a huge power swing for about 30 seconds at the end, from -280 to +770 Wh/km. This is full swing from -50 regen to +150 Amps on the power meter. Wonder if it may have somehow caused the main pack fuse to blow?
i wonder if the dcqc jumper wires could be connected to make the contactors close and reveal the pack voltage at the dcqc port? Or is there any other way to read pack voltage with a volt meter.
The incorrectly installed instrument cluster is definitely a clue that something is flaky.
Were all the fuses and relays checked and found to be good--some of the control units (EVECU, BMU, etc) get 12V power on various fuses, so if a fuse goes that unit will not work.
The power time history shows that someone was punching the throttle and letting off about 4 minutes before the end, then there is a huge power swing for about 30 seconds at the end, from -280 to +770 Wh/km. This is full swing from -50 regen to +150 Amps on the power meter. Wonder if it may have somehow caused the main pack fuse to blow?
i wonder if the dcqc jumper wires could be connected to make the contactors close and reveal the pack voltage at the dcqc port? Or is there any other way to read pack voltage with a volt meter.
I did press the accelerator pedal down and up a number of times, as it was a nice way to see that I was getting correct and current information streaming live from the car to the bluetooth adapter and phone. (The accelerator position would vary in real-time on the phone.)
The "Wh/km History" display appeared to be COMPLETELY wrong. There was no Wh/km, as the car was parked, not going anywhere at all. There were a couple of times that I turned the blower fan on and off, but that was about it for power use. I really have no idea where the car was getting the data for the Wh/km History chart, but it was NOT correct at all!
I didn't think to check all the 12V fuses. I simply overlooked that. Seems odd that a single 12V fuse could completely disable the traction system, but I know that on some cars (including the Prius) things can just go wonky with lower 12V voltages, so I suppose anything is possible!
The "Wh/km History" display appeared to be COMPLETELY wrong. There was no Wh/km, as the car was parked, not going anywhere at all. There were a couple of times that I turned the blower fan on and off, but that was about it for power use. I really have no idea where the car was getting the data for the Wh/km History chart, but it was NOT correct at all!
I didn't think to check all the 12V fuses. I simply overlooked that. Seems odd that a single 12V fuse could completely disable the traction system, but I know that on some cars (including the Prius) things can just go wonky with lower 12V voltages, so I suppose anything is possible!
bennelson, thank you for trying to help out.
karellen, please do keep us informed of your progress - especially anything else you might try before handing the car off. Wish you all the best in your move, getting the car transported, and the final solution. Oh, and don't forget to recharge your new 12v battery - lead-acid doesn't like to sit partially depleted.
karellen, please do keep us informed of your progress - especially anything else you might try before handing the car off. Wish you all the best in your move, getting the car transported, and the final solution. Oh, and don't forget to recharge your new 12v battery - lead-acid doesn't like to sit partially depleted.
I removed the clear plastic from the IC to clean it. The used car dealership's detailer heavily stained it with some sort of cleaner. I used headlight polish on a power drill and it looks pretty much perfect. Much cheaper than the replacement sourced from Japan. Sounds like I should've taken a picture beforehand so I could properly reinstall it.
I spoke with the auto relocation company. I have to pay an additional fee of almost $200, but they will move it.
Here is the screenshot Ben referenced:
and another shot I was able to take with Canion:
I spoke with the auto relocation company. I have to pay an additional fee of almost $200, but they will move it.
Here is the screenshot Ben referenced:
and another shot I was able to take with Canion:
PV1
Well-known member
Yep, cell 76 is too far discharged for the car to do anything. The i-MiEV shuts down when any cell hits 2.75 volts. The pack is otherwise fully charged if it was possible to bypass a bad cell (that's the most aggravating part about it. One cell limits the car, much like a weak link in a chain).
New pack! (actually a bit of a shame with 41.5 Ah remaining). At least Mitsubishi makes use of these packs (at least I certainly hope so).
Lucky that Ben was so close and willing to help identify the problem. Good luck with the move and hopefully the dealer can get your pack replaced quickly.
New pack! (actually a bit of a shame with 41.5 Ah remaining). At least Mitsubishi makes use of these packs (at least I certainly hope so).
Lucky that Ben was so close and willing to help identify the problem. Good luck with the move and hopefully the dealer can get your pack replaced quickly.
janesh
New member
bennelson said:
EvBatMon in the Android playstore 15,99 euro is the app what you meant Ben?
Follow-up...
Got my car back from the dealer in California with a new battery. He showed me everything that Mitsubishi sent him on a semi to do the work: large battery crate, forklift, and a roller.
Also stumbled across another iMiev in the wild. Haven't had that happen before.
Got my car back from the dealer in California with a new battery. He showed me everything that Mitsubishi sent him on a semi to do the work: large battery crate, forklift, and a roller.
Also stumbled across another iMiev in the wild. Haven't had that happen before.
PV1
Well-known member
Thanks for the update. Glad you were able to get the car moved and got a new pack.
