Want one, but cautious. Opinions please.

[DamnHippie]

Hello, brand new member, so be gentle.

We have decided to get our first EV come spring. We have narrowed it down to the Smart or the I-Miev for financial reasons of 8k max.

The Leaf seems to loose it's battery performance quite rapidly from what I've read in multiple places, and looking at their online listings, a 2-4 dash decline is common on two to three year old vehicles.

Now my concern. Mitsubishi announced it is killing the I-Miev after this model year. Have concerns of getting parts in the future if needed, and specifically a replacement battery if ever needed. With no more production and limited numbers in America anyway, I am concerned no R&D money will go into better (or cheaper) batteries in the future.

Smart announced they are killing the gas models to focus on the electric. Makes sense parts would be easier, and battery replacement as well. But it's a 2 seater and looks like a pregnant roller skate.

Comments, suggestions, gut feelings welcome !!

Thanks

Damn Hippie

 

[Don]

Welcome to the forum! - There's lots to read here and much of that will address your worries pretty well I think

IMO, the time to be cautious was back in 2012 when we first adopters forked over $30K+ on a completely unknown quantity. I think the car has pretty much proven itself since then

The battery is warrantied until 2022 and after that, a new replacement is for all intents and purposes not a financially viable option - Even if you could find *something* new for $5K or so, the cost of getting something other than the OEM technology installed would be more than a 10 year old car would be worth

Usually when a battery fails, it's a single cell or two and you might be able to pick up a few used ones from wrecking yards by then . . . . if you could install them yourself

If this is your largest worry, I would suggest you up your maximum a bit and pick up a used 2016 model. The extra you pay would get you the latest cell technology which was not available in 2012, plus you would have a longer warranty

We bought our second one for $8K a couple years ago and when compared to what we paid for our original one, it was a real bargain. We knew the cars very well by that time, paid less than 1/3rd of what we paid for the original one and had way fewer 'worries' than we had originally

I think buying an $8K 2012 now, you're banking on the original battery warranty and when that runs out . . . . .

That's probably part of the reason you can buy them so cheaply

Don

 

[DamnHippie]

Don,

Much thanks for the info.

You said the battery is warranted until 2012. I assume that is for a 2012 model, so a 2014 would have until 2024, correct?

Must have either read incorrect info elsewhere of mixed it up in my head somehow, so please clarify if you would. Assuming the battery is under warranty for 10 years, and applies to second, third, etc. owners as well, what exactly does it cover, and at what point is a replacement given?

I don't mind spending 6-8k on a car that will get me 6 years of use as long as the major and costliest potential problem is covered.

Much thanks again,

Mike

 

[ChrisEV]

Unless I’m missing something the battery warranty is only 8 years. It’s only good for battery failure which seems extremely rare. Battery degradation is expected and Mitsubishi won’t cover that(unless it’s really excessive perhaps). But these cars seem to hold up very well.

I just bought a 2012(low mileage) and I’m good until 2020.

 

[DamnHippie]

Thank you both for your help. It was very much appreciated.

It pains me a bit as I much prefer the look and 4way seating of the I-Miev, but think the Smart ED is the better option for my particular circumstances while considering possible future replacement parts.

I sincerely wish you all the very best and hope you enjoy the hell out of you Miev's. See you at a charging station one day !

Mike

 

[Don]

The factory battery warranty was 8 years or 100,000 miles and they extended that to 10 years in 2014 for all cars. True, it only covers a pack failure and they are fairly rare, but the degradation rally hasn't proven to be a major issue - It may be up to 30% by the time you have 100K on it, but an iMiEV with a 70% pack is still a very useful car, IMO. I'm not worried about either of ours. I wouldn't trade either of them for a pair of Smart ED's. Go take a test drive in both and come back and tell us what you think

Don

 

[ChrisEV]

The factory battery warranty was 8 years or 100,000 miles and they extended that to 10 years in 2014 for all cars. True, it only covers a pack failure and they are fairly rare, but the degradation rally hasn't proven to be a major issue - It may be up to 30% by the time you have 100K on it, but an iMiEV with a 70% pack is still a very useful car, IMO. I'm not worried about either of ours. I wouldn't trade either of them for a pair of Smart ED's. Go take a test drive in both and come back and tell us what you think

Don

Don, does that mean it’s 10 years for all i-MIEV cars or only 2014 models and newer?

Dealer told me I only had 8 years.

 

[iwatson]

Hello Damnhippie,

Just wanted to make sure you understand that the smart car does not come with a battery. The battery is provided as a lease only. Yes you can buy the car, but you must continue to lease the battery.

Another reason that I chose to jump in here was to invite you to my listing. I have a 2012 i-miev SE for sale and the warranty is for 10 years or 100,000 miles from Mitsubishi. The warranty is tracked on Mitsubishi's website based on the original in-service date of the vehicle, not by model year.

If you are interested, please check out my ad at: https://cargur.us/kllzz I'm asking a lot less than $8000

btw: In case you're wondering, no I'm not dissatisfied with the i-miev, on the contrary I'm very fond of them. I have three, and 7 vehicles total. insurance on 7 vehicles is eating up all my lunch money. So when you have more than you need, more than you can use, something's gotta go!

 

[iwatson]

Don, does that mean it’s 10 years for all i-MIEV cars or only 2014 models and newer?

Dealer told me I only had 8 years.

Mitsubishi made this change in 2014 but retroactively affecting all I-miev's in the U.S. Your dealer may be looking up the original warranty on the vehicle. You know many of them don't have much experience with this car.

 

[ChrisEV]

Don, does that mean it’s 10 years for all i-MIEV cars or only 2014 models and newer?

Dealer told me I only had 8 years.

Mitsubishi made this change in 2014 but retroactively affecting all I-miev's in the U.S. Your dealer may be looking up the original warranty on the vehicle. You know many of them don't have much experience with this car.

Not sure if it matters but I’m in Canada.

The dealership I bought the car from knew nothing about it.

However the Mitsubishi dealer where the car was originally bought is near me. I’ll give them a call.

 

[1pk]

Not sure if it matters but I’m in Canada.

I'm in BC and I received the letter a couple of years ago extending my warranty to 160,000 km or 10 years.

Mine should be up in two years as I've got 115k on the car. I would recommend it. Cheapest car I have or will ever own

Pete

 

[JoeS]

...It pains me a bit as I much prefer the look and 4way seating of the I-Miev, but think the Smart ED is the better option for my particular circumstances while considering possible future replacement parts...

Of the very few reasons to choose a SmartED over an i-MiEV, that would not be one in my book. If you want new parts, see -
http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3004

The small external size of the i-MiEV and huge internal volume (more than a Leaf) with a flat floor, coupled with DCQC, makes the i-MiEV a hands-down winner as a workhorse vs. the SmartED being strictly a two-person conveyance. The only advantage of a SmartED, IMO, if you're a city dweller, is the ability to squeeze into really tight parking spots.

 

[DamnHippie]

Well, damn. Back as a strong possibility now !

Don, would love to sit in one, but have never seen one on the road. Anybody near DFW that wouldnt mind me sitting in theirs for 5 minutes, please let me know.

I very much prefer the I-Miev styling over the smart, personally. If the battery is covered for 10 years from the in service date, a 2014 would work well for my needs. I understand degradation, but complete failure is game over. The limited numbers scares me a bit for parts if an accident happens, but on 6k dollar car, any accident is likely to be a total loss anyway, so i can justify that risk.

I also like the OBD2 module/apps the car can employ. Smart has a good app too, but forums suggest getting a special code required for them to function is very difficult if not impossible on a preowned smart as its left for the previous owner to have deleted their account which often does not happen.

And to the poster that warned of Smarts BAP battery lease program, I have verified directly that all preowned sales are excluded now from honoring a previous owners contract. It became a huge sore eye for Mercedes.

We will be buying right around march/april (tax refund). I appreciate all the info everyone has provided. I am now heavily leaned to the I-Miev again as I was before thanks to this new found insight. Of course, If I hit the lotto, I'll probably have a Tesla Big-Rig for the 500 mile range.
Just saying...

 

[Don]

All used cars are a bit of a gamble - Some have a better history than others, so they are less of a gamble. IMO, the iMiEV is one of those

I guess it all comes down to what you need the vehicle to do. IMO, there's not much similarity between the iMiEV and the Smart ED. One is a true 'car' and can do almost everything most cars can do. Haul 4 people in relative comfort, fold down the seats and you have a mini-station wagon. We have a thread here somewhere about all the things people have hauled in their cars. For me, the big one was a 250 pound, 54" mower deck for my Kubota diesel garden tractor. The parts guy at the dealership said "You're never gonna get THAT in THERE" . . . . and then he came out to the parking lot to help me slide it in - I had measured carefully and knew beforehand it would fit fine . . . . otherwise I would have brought a different vehicle

The iMiEV is a car, and a really easy one to get into and out of, while IMO the Smart is more of a 'toy' - True, it will get one or two people where they need to go, but so will a motorcycle - That doesn't make it a car. Cars can do many other things . . . . haul lumber home, 10 bags of 80 pound Ready-Mix - Tie those on your motorcycle!

But, if it's just you and one other person and you never need to tote more around than your gym bag, it's sometimes neat to own a toy too. I've had several of them over the years which really could not justify their keep, but I still liked them

Don

 

[phb10186]

The Smart is also not available with CHAdeMO at all. The boot is tiny, seats dont fold, and its a all bonded together with glue etc... so it's more of a toy/ fashion piece.

Also, when I looked at one, the quality of the rubberized trim was poor, already peeling off a 2 year old one.

Much less utility than an IMIEV...

 

[DamnHippie]

I'm already sold. If you hadn't guessed, i research everything, and have likely over 100 hours into a 6k dollar decision at this point. Have decided the I-Miev will be in my driveway march/april.

Im in north texas, in cow country. Work is exactly 31 miles each way. 10 highway, 21 backroads. The three towns we shop in are 14 miles, 16 miles, and 24 miles respectively. Work has said i can use an outside plug 110v if needed, but at 62 miles roundtrip, may not be needed. All our shopping towns fall easily inside the range. The furthest one actually has an EvGo j1172 and Chademo at the Walgreens that we scouted today.

Ordered my EvGo, Chargepoint, and Blink cards last night. Will install a dedicated level 2 in the garage next weekend, 10gauge, 30amp 14-30 dryer socket, 40 amp breaker, and likely the Cripple Creek.

Hate to have to wait, but looks like uncle sam owes me a whole bunch of money back, so instead of financing, gonma let his check buy the car.

May not have a choice in color, but ideally would want a red one, as I've read they have been proven to be faster than the others...

You all have been fantastic, so thank you.

 

[JoeS]

...Im in north texas, in cow country. Work is exactly 31 miles each way. 10 highway, 21 backroads. The three towns we shop in are 14 miles, 16 miles, and 24 miles respectively. Work has said i can use an outside plug 110v if needed, but at 62 miles roundtrip, may not be needed. All our shopping towns fall easily inside the range. The furthest one actually has an EvGo j1172 and Chademo at the Walgreens that we scouted today.

Glad you made a sensible decision, and the i-MiEV is well-suited for those drives. Reality is that the 62-mile round trip for work will be pushing it on one charge: speed (Texans love their 85mph), heat in winter, and aircon in summer will all affect your range. No problem, simply plan on plugging in to 120vac at work every day and you'll be just fine and be able to commute comfortably. Work out a deal with your employer to pay some nominal amount for the electricity so your co-workers don't get jealous.

Ordered my EvGo, Chargepoint, and Blink cards last night. Will install a dedicated level 2 in the garage next weekend, 10gauge, 30amp 14-30 dryer socket, 40 amp breaker, and likely the Cripple Creek.

The 40A Clipper Creek unit is fine (have you looked at others for perhaps a portable dual-voltage EVSE for taking on trips?), but I would go with 8AWG or 6AWG (depends on length) and NEMA 14-50 outlet (to be compatible with your next EV). To meet code, I don't think you can install a 40A breaker on a 30A outlet, even though our i-MiEV only draws about 13A at 240vac.

Have fun, and start looking for that i-MiEV as it may take some time to find one with CHAdeMO.

 

[DamnHippie]

Joes,

Thanks for the input. I'm #2 at the company, so as a courtesy I just asked the owner if it was OK, and there was no problem, other than the jokes that I would return to the office and find my car has been picked up and placed in the bathroom...

(I would have offered to pay but when they moved the office 20 miles further away and I was not happy about the extended drive, he all but begged me to stay. That extra 40 miles RT tripled my fuel cost to and from the office and quadrupled my drive time. So, not trying to sound like an ass, but it is the least he could do.)

So, would you think a Clipper Creek 16a model, 8ga wire, 30amp breaker and 14-30 plug sounds capable enough?

I am under the impression the 2014 Imiev's all have Chademo, is that not correct ?

Much thanks again !

 

[JoeS]

...So, would you think a Clipper Creek 16a model, 8ga wire, 30amp breaker and 14-30 plug sounds capable enough? I am under the impression the 2014 Imiev's all have Chademo, is that not correct ?

Sure, the 16A Clipper Creek and that circuit will be just fine for the i-MiEV, but insufficient for your next EV. Yes, all 2014 i-MiEVs have CHAdeMO. Good luck in finding one... actually, you might be in luck as a few might be coming off the three-year lease.

 

[wmcbrine]

May not have a choice in color, but ideally would want a red one, as I've read they have been proven to be faster than the others...

I don't think the i-MiEV comes in red? The only colors I've seen are white, black, silver, purple, blue, and blue/white.

I hope you hit up a Smart forum for advice as well; I think some of the previous comments here were perhaps less than objective.