Using a generator to increase range / Push charging

[TXCharlie]

I'm surprised that I don't see this question asked anywhere about the MIEV, but is there any way to use a generator to charge the batteries while driving the car?

I need to transport it about 300 miles on a route with no charging stations., and figured why pay money to rent a flatbed truck to carry it, when I could buy a fairly nice 3000 watt generator for the same price!

I assume that the charging port has an interlock to prevent driving Away. With the charger plugged in, but is it possible to safely defeat the interlock? If you can do that, you'll basically have a Chevy Volt for a fraction of the price.

Also, since it has regenerative braking, it should fast- charge the batteries just by pulling or pushing the car in "B" drive. The biggest question is will charging the batteries this way overstress any electrical or mechanical components?

The third question is that I already have a 800w generator that's rated 900w peak,
which is just shy of what the 110V charger draws.

As the batteries charge up, they probably don't draw that much continously , so could the generator be used in emergencies to top off, say, an 80% discharged battery?

More importantly, would the distorted sine wave and poor frequency / voltage regulation typical of small inexpensive generators hurt the MIEV's circuitry in any way?

Seems like they should cover questions like this in the user's manual, and actually design the car so it will accept emergency generators without any guessing, experimentation, or modification.

Of course I also think it should come equipped to plug into my 220v dryer outlet without buying an $800 box.

 

[peterdambier]

I am thinking of something very similar.

How to connect another 330V battery and how to charge it, when to connect it?

How to power charge without CHAdeMO? E.g. charging more than 14A from 3 phase here in Europe. DC-charging from the new J1772.

First is how to put in the gas devil and how to run it without getting your ears torn out or your lungs poisoned.

Forget the builtin charger. You would have to run it without J1772 and keep it from talking to the other computers.

I guess "evtv.me" and "Brusa charger" is a way to go.

 

[garygid]

It the www.mynissanleaf.com forum, Ingineer describes
a trailer with a turbine based generator which is apparently
used to feed regulated DC directly to the battery while
driving, just as if the car was getting regen current from
the car's inverter (that is actually busy driving the wheels).

 

[Don]

I'm surprised that I don't see this question asked anywhere about the MIEV, but is there any way to use a generator to charge the batteries while driving the car?

Not to my knowledge. You certainly can use a genset to recharge while you're parked at a roadside rest area though

I assume that the charging port has an interlock to prevent driving Away. With the charger plugged in, but is it possible to safely defeat the interlock? If you can do that, you'll basically have a Chevy Volt for a fraction of the price.

Yes, it has interlocks to prevent the car from moving with anything plugged into the charging port. I have no idea if these could be safely bypassed or not. We don't know too much about the charger or the inverter - It could be that they share some common circuitry which would prevent them from being used at the same time

Also, since it has regenerative braking, it should fast- charge the batteries just by pulling or pushing the car in "B" drive. The biggest question is will charging the batteries this way overstress any electrical or mechanical components?

It *should* charge when towing it if all systems are active . . . . though they specifically advise you not to do that

The third question is that I already have a 800w generator that's rated 900w peak,
which is just shy of what the 110V charger draws.

Pretty sure that won't work . . . . unless you mod your EVSE to draw fewer watts

As the batteries charge up, they probably don't draw that much continously , so could the generator be used in emergencies to top off, say, an 80% discharged battery?

It's true the charge current tapers off at the very end, but it will draw as much as the EVSE is set up for at the beginning of the charge process, no matter what the SOC of the battery is when charging commences. It's also true Mitsubishi recommends not charging when the battery is nearly full

More importantly, would the distorted sine wave and poor frequency / voltage regulation typical of small inexpensive generators hurt the MIEV's circuitry in any way?

I don't think so . . . . but we're not going to try it using my car. At a minimum, I would use a Honda 2000i genset, which is about $1,000

Of course I also think it should come equipped to plug into my 220v dryer outlet without buying an $800 box.

If you pay the $325 to have your OEM EVSE upgraded from 120 volts@8 amps to 120/240@12 amps, you can plug it into most any socket. After the upgrade, your EVSE will have a twistlock plug on it and there are 12 inch twistlock pigtails which will enable you to plug it into either of the standard dryer plugs - You'll get a 100% recharge in about 7 hours. It's the best value for the buck EVSE anywhere and it's great for travelling because you can plug it into anything

Don

 

[TXCharlie]

Thanks for all your feedback!

I'll have to look into modifying the EVSE, although I might try to buy a spare off eBay or something to experiment with, to avoid messing up my only one!

I like to carry the EVSE and a 100ft extension cord "just in case", and I've started looking around for outside outlets on my path to work, and AT work, in case I wake up one morning and realize I forgot to charge the car overnight. I bought a little outlet ground tester as a simple way to see if the outlets I find are actually turned on.

I found some outlets at the base of a couple of light poles in the parking lot where I work (I guess so maintainence and clean-up people can plug into them), spare outlet slots behind outside vending machines, on hidden sides of nearby convinience stores, etc.

My next project will be to map outlets for the 300 mile trip I need to take in it... But I might spend a lot of time parked by light poles and eating at fast-food joints waiting for my buggy to charge back up

 

[JoeS]

Hi TXCharlie, and welcome to the forum.

I'm surprised that I don't see this question asked anywhere about the MIEV, but is there any way to use a generator to charge the batteries while driving the car?

The reason this parallel-hybrid configuration has not been discussed is that some of us are beyond that concept: we have an all-electric vehicle and have no desire to go 'backwards'. IMO, not worth the trouble of trying to hack into the iMiEV's circuitry and rig a polluting genset. That said, we have indeed demonstrated that a Honda EU2000i generator can, in an emergency, provide iMiEV recharging at a 0.9kW rate using the Mitsu L1 EVSE; i.e., roughly four miles per recharge hour. You need to modify its ground to safely fool the GFCI, easily done with an adapter plug.

I need to transport it about 300 miles on a route with no charging stations., and figured why pay money to rent a flatbed truck to carry it, when I could buy a fairly nice 3000 watt generator for the same price!

If you don't have one, then borrow a pickup or SUV and rent a trailer and you're all set for far less than the cost of a flatbed truck rental. Better yet, if you have the time for a driving adventure, check PlugShare to see if you have other EV owners along the way willing to share their EVSEs (you can also join PlugShare and offer your own EVSE). I bought a SPX L2 EVSE that allows me charge using various rates at both 120vac and 240vac and I have adapters which allow me to use just about any power circuit out there - most popular being RV campgrounds and their NEMA14-50 outlets. EVSE Upgrade is by far the easiest and least expensive mod you can get - if you do that, you will not only have increased current charging at 120vac, but with a few adapters you can use 240vac dryer outlets and RV campsites.

I found some outlets at the base of a couple of light poles in the parking lot where I work (I guess so maintainence and clean-up people can plug into them), spare outlet slots behind outside vending machines, on hidden sides of nearby convinience stores, etc.

I drove one of my Sparrows for a couple of years with a much smaller battery pack than normal - with its range of ~12 miles (vs. ~ 30+miles for a normal Sparrow) I became very adept at sussing out all the 120vac outlets in the area. As you discovered, outlets are everywhere, and almost everyone is happy to oblige and (with one exception) invariably decline when one offers to pay for the electricity. The exception was the local town which has a hall where I plugged in during Jazzercise in that hall. One morning someone sent the police over to warn the person 'stealing' electricity from the town. I pointed out that my particular low-wattage charger used maybe a nickel's worth of electricity while their incandescent overhead hall floodlights were (and still are) consuming >12,000W - I escalated it to the top of the food chain offering to pay for the kWh but the head of the facilities department claimed they had no mechanism for accepting payment... and undoubtedly didn't want to bother setting a precedent and was in CYA mode for perceived 'safety' issues. It wasn't worth going to the town council as it's not my town (my own town was one of the first to install public EVSEs). Heard of a similar problem on military bases where it's strictly illegal to use the government's petrol and thus, by analogy, it must be illegal to allow an EV to charge.

 

[TXCharlie]

almost everyone is happy to oblige and (with one exception) invariably decline when one offers to pay for the electricity. The exception was the local town which has a hall where I plugged in during Jazzercise in that hall. One morning someone sent the police over to warn the person 'stealing' electricity from the town. I pointed out that my particular low-wattage charger used maybe a nickel's worth of electricity while their incandescent overhead hall floodlights were (and still are) consuming >12,000W - I escalated it to the top of the food chain offering to pay for the kWh but the head of the facilities department claimed they had no mechanism for accepting payment... and undoubtedly didn't want to bother setting a precedent and was in CYA mode for perceived 'safety' issues. It wasn't worth going to the town council as it's not my town (my own town was one of the first to install public EVSEs). Heard of a similar problem on military bases where it's strictly illegal to use the government's petrol and thus, by analogy, it must be illegal to allow an EV to charge.

:lol: LOL, that sounds like my town: They have no problem spending $500 in man-hours to save a nickle, but never ask them to spend a nickle to save $500.

I'll definitely check on that EVSE modification! I was wondering why it only charges at a 900 watt rate, since the standard 110v 20A circuit I ran can easily supply up 1600 watts with the EVSE's 15 amp plug, or 2200 watts if the EVSE had a 20 amp plug. It seems like a ripoff to spend almost $1000 on a 220v EVSE, anyway. :?

 

[peterdambier]

Hi TXCharlie.

Have a look at

http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1135

If you like some pictures - they take time loading

http://www.piraten-fraktion-bergstrasse.de/AETC/GorillaCharging.html

and have a look at caravan parks and their sockets.

My wife and me love going on a drive and charge expedition but not every day. Almost every garage and many shops can help you but not every time of the day.

And does the i-MiEV charge without EVSE? I'll find out.

Apropos, sometimes politicians and "working" in their spare time at a power utility thinking about public charge points: "I know, at a supermarket they are doing an experiment, electricity for free for electric cars, it is cheaper than RFID cards and things for us. But imagine, all those youngsters with their i-phones they are using the same kind of batteries like those electric cars and they are going to steal electricity from us."

Imagine all those phones and each of them taking a 16 amp hour charge. I'll try and make an adapter to charge from the phone :lol:

 

[Llecentaur]

Hi everyone,

Great board, have been following for some time.

I was very keen to get an EV and seriously considered Teslar or Karma. Both far too pricy forwhat I would still consider as a "third" car.

Anyway, opted to keep my old Jag and jumped on an offer for a czero (EU version of iMiev sold by Citroen). Unfortunately the battery has been reduced to 14.5 which snaps 10 miles off our range.

Have been planning to make a few mods, including Alcantara seat covers, will let you know if the resul is good.

Anyway, back to this topic. I really like the idea of a generator/range extender. If you are ready and sitting on your chair, here is my "lateral"thinking

The Czero allows a roof carrier. Why not adapt one of these aerodynamic roof boxes to accomodate a generator, or better a small turbine that woukd go through the fast charge port to a controler and main batteries without going through the standard 3.3kw charger.

Advantages I see are probably more stability than a trailer, maybe even more efficient drag, much healthier than inside the car option with an exhaust .

Looking forward to feedbacks (be nice )

 

[Don]

I'll definitely check on that EVSE modification! I was wondering why it only charges at a 900 watt rate, since the standard 110v 20A circuit I ran can easily supply up 1600 watts with the EVSE's 15 amp plug, or 2200 watts if the EVSE had a 20 amp plug. It seems like a ripoff to spend almost $1000 on a 220v EVSE, anyway. :?

I assume it charges at only 900 watts so it's safe to use in older houses with 'antique' wiring - All Mitsu would need is one lawsuit where someone burned down their house recharging their car. Much 'safer' for them to make you liable if you opted to install a higher current unit

No matter what you do, your stock EVSE will be limited to about 1400 watts from any 120 volt outlet because the cord from the EVSE to the car uses only 16 gauge wire, so it can't carry more than 12 amps. You could of course upgrade to a 12 gauge cord with a new J1772 plug . . . . and then you'll find out one reason that EVSE's cost so much - The new cord and plug will set you back an extra $150 or so

Even with the wimpy factory cord, 240@ 12 amps is nearly 90% of what the onboard charger in the car is rated to handle, so an upgraded EVSE is nearly as good as any of the $800 units

Don

 

[PV1]

What about taking an old VW Beetle or the like, and use the engine, transmission, and rear axle to push the car? JB Straubel of Tesla did this with one of his electric conversions. He started out on electric, and turned on the ignition for the engine when he reached a certain speed to let it take over propelling the vehicle. You could set it up to run at highway speeds, run a throttle and ignition switch into the i for the engine, and use the throttle to control speed and power. Shift the i into N to increase fuel economy, and when you run out of fuel, use the i's drivetrain to get to a gas station. You could also use D or Eco to generate some electricity to charge the battery back up and/or hold back on downhill slopes. A trailer hitch is available for the i.

Do so at your own risk, I'm not responsible for your actions.
(Sorry. Have to put that in.)

 

[Don]

. . . . or, if that's what you need to be able to do, why not just buy a Chevy Volt?

Don

 

[PV1]

This is for the once every couple of years you need to take the car outside its range. Of course, charging infrastructure can quickly grow enough to make this possible, but some of us have the urge to homebrew a solution. Why buy a Volt for these rare trips and suffer the reduced EV range all the time?

But really, I understand the practicality of the Volt, and how my trailer idea could end up costing more than a Volt.