Turtle with no warning and 25km range remaining

Mitsubishi i-MiEV Forum

Help Support Mitsubishi i-MiEV Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Mickey thanks tremendously for near real time support. It's SOO helpful.

Cap2 (OBDZero) running. Initially 6.8A. After about 2 hours it was 3.2A and now, half an hour later again, 1.7A - cell voltages (max, avg and min) all near 4.10v. SoC shown in app is 55% (Cap: 26Ah) - vehicle battery charge indicator is also about there (8 of 16 bars). I took a screen shot - unfortunately that seems to have terminated the session.

Are currents on Cap 2 screen at 360v DC (not the 240v AC)? Charge added might be about 2 * 6.8Ah + about 3Ah = 16.6 Ah ~ 5.1kWh.
 
Cap2 (OBDZero) running. Initially 6.8A. After about 2 hours it was 3.2A and now, half an hour later again, 1.7A - cell voltages (max, avg and min) all near 4.10v. SoC shown in app is 55% (Cap: 26Ah) - vehicle battery charge indicator is also about there (8 of 16 bars). I took a screen shot - unfortunately that seems to have terminated the session.
Yes, any interaction with the phone during CAP2 will terminate the session, unfortunately
Are currents on Cap 2 screen at 360v DC (not the 240v AC)? Charge added might be about 2 * 6.8Ah + about 3Ah = 16.6 Ah ~ 5.1kWh.
Yes, current displayed is measured by the DC sensor inside the HV battery pack.

It all points to the BMU ‘thinking’ that there is a lot more in then tank, than actually is.

The tortoise you experienced is therefore caused by the low voltage protection circuit that prevent the cells going into the ‘red’

With HobDrive out of the picture, you will have to look at a laptop based solution (e.g. MUT3-SE/openport clone) to instantly correct the mismatch.

You can of course let the BMU take care of this automatically, but at a max rate of around 2Ah per month this may take a while..
 
Charging rate got very low so I stopped charging. OBDZero reported 5.2kWh of 9.1kWh "Fully charged battery capacity". This is consistent with both the vehicle display and my estimate (quite approximate) from observed point in time charging currents and times. I disconnected then reconnected the 12v battery. OBDZero then reported 9.0kWh present charge - the vehicle display showed all 16 bars (8, or possibly 9? before disconnecting the 12v battery).

Seems that capacity is probably close to 5kW with range somewhat less than 40km. I'd be very pleased (and surprised) to hear a different conclusion. 40km range will be very difficult to use. But I'll look into MUT3 to at least improve the data.

Fortunately there is a great retirement plan. We have buddies who live on an island with a maximum round trip distance of 8km who would make excellent use of the vehicle.
 
Charging rate got very low so I stopped charging. OBDZero reported 5.2kWh of 9.1kWh "Fully charged battery capacity". This is consistent with both the vehicle display and my estimate (quite approximate) from observed point in time charging currents and times. I disconnected then reconnected the 12v battery. OBDZero then reported 9.0kWh present charge - the vehicle display showed all 16 bars (8, or possibly 9? before disconnecting the 12v battery).

Seems that capacity is probably close to 5kW with range somewhat less than 40km. I'd be very pleased (and surprised) to hear a different conclusion. 40km range will be very difficult to use. But I'll look into MUT3 to at least improve the data.
All reported capacity above is based on wrong data, in order to set a proper baseline, you need to run CAP2 from start to finish without interruptions. Once that’s completed successfully, pls post a screen grab of the ‘Chrg tab’..
Fortunately there is a great retirement plan. We have buddies who live on an island with a maximum round trip distance of 8km who would make excellent use of the vehicle.
Great idea
 
All reported capacity above is based on wrong data, in order to set a proper baseline, you need to run CAP2 from start to finish without interruptions. Once that’s completed successfully, pls post a screen grab of the ‘Chrg tab’..
Thanks Mickey. I'll do Cap2 after I take it down to low charge next.

I'm not convinced the battery indicator uses coulomb counting - at least not only coulomb counting. If it did, it shouldn't matter what the assumed fully charged capacity is. I had it at low charge. OBDZero reported 0.2kWh and 1.3% SoC - I presume these were estimated, after I had disconnected/reconnected the 12v battery, from voltages. Charging it fully took it to about 5.2kWh - which is what I would expect. That is, I'm pretty sure that's the present capacity of the battery. This showed, as expected, as about 9/16 bars (as the system view of total capacity is 9.1kWh) and 50km range. After leaving it overnight, RR was 55km. Seemed odd. I drove 33km. I didn't record the battery indicator but I think it was about 3/16. After charging (just over 2hrs at max 8*360 ~ 3kWh) the battery was 16/16 and RR was 89km. If the battery indicator were counting coulombs in and out, it should have returned to a maximum of 5.2kWh ~9/16. Do you agree with my conclusion that this implies that it can't be just coulomb counting?

I'd hoped that if it was coulomb counting then, having charged fully and with the vehicle showing 9/16 I'd be able to use that as a good measure of remaining charge. But that's clearly not going to work. While I'm sorting out how to make the most of this little car (you'll have gathered that I'm pretty keen to do so...), I'm happy to use an app + OBDII port to do the coulomb counting. That could be reset to 5.2kWh (or 0 and count the other direction when driving ...), for example, each time I charged (fully). Any recommendation for such app? Although OBDZero probably does it, it seems to be "polluted" by other MCU data - this is not a criticism of OBDZero, just acknowledgement that it is using incorrect data from the vehicle.
 
Thanks Mickey. I'll do Cap2 after I take it down to low charge next.

I'm not convinced the battery indicator uses coulomb counting - at least not only coulomb counting.
You’re correct, the BMU uses both methods to determine capacity, the ‘fuel’ indicator merely dispays SoC. Problem is that the actual battery capacity value has to be correct for that to work as expected.
If it did, it shouldn't matter what the assumed fully charged capacity is. I had it at low charge. OBDZero reported 0.2kWh and 1.3% SoC - I presume these were estimated, after I had disconnected/reconnected the 12v battery, from voltages.
The BMU calculates the SoC after a 12V reset based on battery (cell) voltage, this is only accurate, if there was no (or very low) current flow for at least 30min.

SoC is a ratio of the current battery capacity, therefore the BMU’s (wrong) interpretation is that the capacity is 1.3% * 9.2kWh when in fact it’s more like 1.3% * 6kWh.

If the BMU capacity value was correct, SoC would show 100% after charging is completed.

Charging it fully took it to about 5.2kWh - which is what I would expect. That is, I'm pretty sure that's the present capacity of the battery. This showed, as expected, as about 9/16 bars (as the system view of total capacity is 9.1kWh) and 50km range.
During a charge the car stops twice (for about 30min) to measure voltage based SoC, but switches to Coulomb counting once current flows, therefore the car does measure the actual capacity, but doesn’t change the BMU value accordingly (from experience it only allows corrections of about +/- 2Ah per month)

The 5.2kWh measured are therefore correct and if you add the (little) bit before the charge, your actual capacity is around 6kWh.

After leaving it overnight, RR was 55km. Seemed odd.
It looks like the BMU did detect some capacity change overnight, could it be temperature related?

I drove 33km. I didn't record the battery indicator but I think it was about 3/16. After charging (just over 2hrs at max 8*360 ~ 3kWh) the battery was 16/16 and RR was 89km. If the battery indicator were counting coulombs in and out, it should have returned to a maximum of 5.2kWh ~9/16. Do you agree with my conclusion that this implies that it can't be just coulomb counting?
Once a cell reaches 4.1V and the car isn’t in ‘calibration mode’ (start with less than 2/16) the BMU assumes the car is fully charged and sets the SoC to 100%. The battery indicator displays SoC and the RR works off the 9.2kWh.

You are correct, the car uses a combination of both methods.
While I'm sorting out how to make the most of this little car (you'll have gathered that I'm pretty keen to do so...), I'm happy to use an app + OBDII port to do the coulomb counting.
Remember the guy with the MUT3? Once CAP2 gives you an accurate capacity reading in Ah (my money is on 19Ah), he can increase the ‘‘battery age” until the BMU value is correct and all will work as intended afterwards.
 


Write your reply...
Back
Top