EnviroFusion
Active member
I think that the iMiev would have been awesome and innovative to consider making it 'self-charging' with a solar top.
Self Charging
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Golyadkin
Member
I wouldn't put it past them to do that in later versions. Right now they are just trying to get an affordable EV to market. The less new, untested technology, the better at this point.
Seeing as the Prius already has something like that to power the A/C system, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see that in the 2014-2015MY iMiEVs.
Seeing as the Prius already has something like that to power the A/C system, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see that in the 2014-2015MY iMiEVs.
I've had 4500W (24 panels) of solar panels on my roof (grid-tied) for two years now, and have a total yearly average of 9kwH of production (with wide daily swings depending if it's sunny or dark clouds, and depending on the time of year, with the different amounts of daylight).
According to my history, I have calculated that eight 245W panels will provide me with about 4 KwH of average charging for the "i". (Sunnier places will get more, but I live in cloudy/rainy Hilo!!) Since the "i" gets about 5 miles/kwH, that will usually get me about 20 miles of "free" driving...of course with wide swings...sometimes more, sometimes less. Being grid-tied, I can sell the excess electricity to HELCO in the daytime, and then 'buy back' my electricity at a reduced rate at night during off-peak hours.
According to my history, I have calculated that eight 245W panels will provide me with about 4 KwH of average charging for the "i". (Sunnier places will get more, but I live in cloudy/rainy Hilo!!) Since the "i" gets about 5 miles/kwH, that will usually get me about 20 miles of "free" driving...of course with wide swings...sometimes more, sometimes less. Being grid-tied, I can sell the excess electricity to HELCO in the daytime, and then 'buy back' my electricity at a reduced rate at night during off-peak hours.
Golyadkin
Member
I suspect that your numbers might be a bit on the generous side for the car's production. I assume that your panels are optimally aligned (angled towards the equator, at an angle equal to your latitude), while the car will be changing directions and positions all the time, so your house will be producing more on average per panel than the car would (assuming identical panels).
However, the amount generated could also vary wildly depending on the efficiency of the cells used in the panel.
However, the amount generated could also vary wildly depending on the efficiency of the cells used in the panel.
Yeah that's what I thought too - he is saying it takes approximately 8 - 245W panels to charge the Mitsubishi i-Miev, and that would be assuming optimal sun exposure. If you were driving around with that many panels, you'd need a bigger vehicle to put them on, and the panels wouldn't always be in optimal position.
Yes, the extra eight panels will be going on the roof of my house, of course!! Each panel is about 6' x 3' !!
With grid-tied solar here on the Big Island, I get to "store" excess electricity with the grid for up to 12 months, and use it on cloudy, dark days, or at night.
With grid-tied solar here on the Big Island, I get to "store" excess electricity with the grid for up to 12 months, and use it on cloudy, dark days, or at night.
Golyadkin
Member
Ok, I thought you meant built into the roof of the car, like EnivroFusion was suggesting.
EnviroFusion
Active member
Hope I'm not confusing anyone.
EnviroFusion
Active member
And here it is:
http://myimiev.com/mitsubishi-and-solarcity-new-zealand-mitsubishi-imiev/
http://myimiev.com/mitsubishi-and-solarcity-new-zealand-mitsubishi-imiev/
Golyadkin
Member
Oooooooooooohhhhhhh.
I thought you meant built into the roof of the car itself to help charge the battery as you drive.
I thought you meant built into the roof of the car itself to help charge the battery as you drive.
That looks like it's a New Zealand specific package, but I'd expect a solar company in the US to try and get something packaged together with the Mitsubishi i-Miev when it goes on sale.
The Ford Focus Electric has a home charging solar panel bundle option: http://www.myfocuselectric.com/ford-focus-electric-home-solar-charging-option/
The Ford Focus Electric has a home charging solar panel bundle option: http://www.myfocuselectric.com/ford-focus-electric-home-solar-charging-option/
Benjamin Nead
Well-known member
Hi all . . .
I just joined here and this is my 1st post. No EV yet in my household but I'm particularly interested in learning more
about the Mitsubishi i, as it appears to be an affordable option.
Regarding PV panels built into the roof of an EV: it looks great in the abstract, but current panel technology dictates that you'll
get very little in the way of energy generated that way . . . certainly not enough to drive with and, perhaps, just enough to run
climate controls and/or the audio system while you're parked. PV technology is only moving along so quickly (and not as quickly
as lithium battery technology,) so this will be the status quo for quite some time.
To get the most out of it you will also need to be parked pointed down hill (especially in the winter months) and to the south
(if you live in the northern hemisphere, that is.) These car rooftop PV panels are sold as options on the Toyota Prius, but they are
expensive (at least a few thousand dollars US) and, as outlined above, largely symbolic in nature. Ditto - and even more so - with
the tiny panel built into the rear spoiler on the Nissan Leaf. It's not big enough to really do anything.
A far more practical and cost effective approach to integrating solar PV technology with an EV (and, yes, this IS a good idea,
also addressed here by another poster) is to invest in rooftop panels for your house and tie the system into the grid. Also . . .
make your house as efficient as possible (insulation, low energy use lighting and appliances) and sell your surplus electricity
back to the power utility. Then, check with your employer or local government to see if the lot where you park at work during
the day can be made cleaner by utilizing grid-tied solar. Cleaning up the grid this way will get us to the point where we'll all,
in essence, be driving solar powered cars.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just joined here and this is my 1st post. No EV yet in my household but I'm particularly interested in learning more
about the Mitsubishi i, as it appears to be an affordable option.
Regarding PV panels built into the roof of an EV: it looks great in the abstract, but current panel technology dictates that you'll
get very little in the way of energy generated that way . . . certainly not enough to drive with and, perhaps, just enough to run
climate controls and/or the audio system while you're parked. PV technology is only moving along so quickly (and not as quickly
as lithium battery technology,) so this will be the status quo for quite some time.
To get the most out of it you will also need to be parked pointed down hill (especially in the winter months) and to the south
(if you live in the northern hemisphere, that is.) These car rooftop PV panels are sold as options on the Toyota Prius, but they are
expensive (at least a few thousand dollars US) and, as outlined above, largely symbolic in nature. Ditto - and even more so - with
the tiny panel built into the rear spoiler on the Nissan Leaf. It's not big enough to really do anything.
A far more practical and cost effective approach to integrating solar PV technology with an EV (and, yes, this IS a good idea,
also addressed here by another poster) is to invest in rooftop panels for your house and tie the system into the grid. Also . . .
make your house as efficient as possible (insulation, low energy use lighting and appliances) and sell your surplus electricity
back to the power utility. Then, check with your employer or local government to see if the lot where you park at work during
the day can be made cleaner by utilizing grid-tied solar. Cleaning up the grid this way will get us to the point where we'll all,
in essence, be driving solar powered cars.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golyadkin said:
mvukovich11
Active member
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2011
- Messages
- 37
Welcome : Benjamin Nead, everything I have read so far is very positive with the Mitsubishi I including the price.
Volkswagen is going to introduced the E-Up! in late 2013. The roof of the E-Up! is equipped with solar cells over an area measuring 1.4 square meters. This area—between the rear part of the roof edge spoiler and the front windshield—be enlarged to 1.7 square meters in total by folding down the sun visors that are also equipped with solar cells. The solar cells continuously supply energy to the car’s electrical system, and while the vehicle is parked they help to cool the interior by supplying energy to the car’s ventilation system.
Volkswagen is going to introduced the E-Up! in late 2013. The roof of the E-Up! is equipped with solar cells over an area measuring 1.4 square meters. This area—between the rear part of the roof edge spoiler and the front windshield—be enlarged to 1.7 square meters in total by folding down the sun visors that are also equipped with solar cells. The solar cells continuously supply energy to the car’s electrical system, and while the vehicle is parked they help to cool the interior by supplying energy to the car’s ventilation system.
Benjamin Nead
Well-known member
Hi mvukovich11 . . .
Thanks, glad to be here.
I've found myself defending the idea of rooftop solar PV panels on EV rooftops in the past, as they do provide at least a little electricity
for accessories and the like. But I've discovered that the consumer pays a hefty premium for such installations. If it's a matter of running
the air conditioning on a hot day for a few minutes before entering the vehicle, the batteries alone could probably handle it.
Just curious . . . how much is Mitsubishi and VW charging for these vehicle rooftop PV installations? If they're like Toyota, it's probably
a few extra thousand dollars. At those prices, it end up being more of an expensive fashion statement than anything else.
Efficient panels - multi and monocrystalline - are difficult to custom craft for curved car rooftops. They also would weigh a lot
(think constant decreased range on the vehicle's batteries for something that might only be used on ocassion.) I'm guessing, though,
that the factory vehicle PV installations are actually based on thin amorphous film panel technology, which is easier to install and doesn't
weigh a lot. Unfortunately it also isn't all that efficient and has a far more limited lifespan than crystalline panels . . .
maybe 5 years or so before the film starts to go dead.
The same amount of money typically could buy far more square footage of home rooftop panels, with all the benefits of highest
possible panel efficiency (product lines like SunPower, Sanyo HIT, etc) proper angling afforded by a permanent installation and grid
integration. So much more bang for the buck.
Thanks, glad to be here.
I've found myself defending the idea of rooftop solar PV panels on EV rooftops in the past, as they do provide at least a little electricity
for accessories and the like. But I've discovered that the consumer pays a hefty premium for such installations. If it's a matter of running
the air conditioning on a hot day for a few minutes before entering the vehicle, the batteries alone could probably handle it.
Just curious . . . how much is Mitsubishi and VW charging for these vehicle rooftop PV installations? If they're like Toyota, it's probably
a few extra thousand dollars. At those prices, it end up being more of an expensive fashion statement than anything else.
Efficient panels - multi and monocrystalline - are difficult to custom craft for curved car rooftops. They also would weigh a lot
(think constant decreased range on the vehicle's batteries for something that might only be used on ocassion.) I'm guessing, though,
that the factory vehicle PV installations are actually based on thin amorphous film panel technology, which is easier to install and doesn't
weigh a lot. Unfortunately it also isn't all that efficient and has a far more limited lifespan than crystalline panels . . .
maybe 5 years or so before the film starts to go dead.
The same amount of money typically could buy far more square footage of home rooftop panels, with all the benefits of highest
possible panel efficiency (product lines like SunPower, Sanyo HIT, etc) proper angling afforded by a permanent installation and grid
integration. So much more bang for the buck.
mvukovich11
Active member
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2011
- Messages
- 37
Benjamin Nead
I don't know if there will be an extra cost for the rooftop solar panel or what solar technology they will use in late 2013/2014.
There are at least three new solar designs that are out in the market place being tested. If the solar panels could generate enough power to operate your heater, air conditioner and radio while you were driving during the day it may be worth a small increase in cost.
I've read on a Mitsubishi Electric Vehicle UK site to subtract ten miles off your total MPGE when using your heater or air conditioner. I have a lot of trust in Mitsubishi and don't think they will come out with a design that is not efficient.
New solar designs:
An ultra-light, highly efficient solar cell and use of ink-jet printing to manufacture thin-film photovoltaic—both developed at the U.S. Department of Energy’s (DOE) National Renewable Energy Laboratory. Also developed was a prototype solar-reflective paint that increases the NIR reflection of opaque vehicle surfaces while maintaining desired colors in the visible portion of the spectrum.
I don't know if there will be an extra cost for the rooftop solar panel or what solar technology they will use in late 2013/2014.
There are at least three new solar designs that are out in the market place being tested. If the solar panels could generate enough power to operate your heater, air conditioner and radio while you were driving during the day it may be worth a small increase in cost.
I've read on a Mitsubishi Electric Vehicle UK site to subtract ten miles off your total MPGE when using your heater or air conditioner. I have a lot of trust in Mitsubishi and don't think they will come out with a design that is not efficient.
New solar designs:
An ultra-light, highly efficient solar cell and use of ink-jet printing to manufacture thin-film photovoltaic—both developed at the U.S. Department of Energy’s (DOE) National Renewable Energy Laboratory. Also developed was a prototype solar-reflective paint that increases the NIR reflection of opaque vehicle surfaces while maintaining desired colors in the visible portion of the spectrum.
Onboard solar may not be as cost-effective, but has a certain coolness factor. These guys seem to offer a quality product, but I corresponded with em last year and it didn't seem like a commercial success, with no plans for Leaf or iMiEV versions
http://www.solarelectricalvehicles.com/
http://www.solarelectricalvehicles.com/
" I've read on a Mitsubishi Electric Vehicle UK site to subtract ten miles off your total MPGE when using your heater or air conditioner." That seems about right.
That is quite a penalty! However a roof of the car totally covered with solar panels would only be used to charge your battery bank and take energy from the battery bank as the energy is needed.
Sure during sunlight hours the solar would supplement the battery bank no doubt about it. The AC or heater will only be used while driving the car. The rest of the time (98% of the time) the car sits in a place getting charged up.
You would have two choices. charge it outside and reap the benefits of solar energy doing most of your charging or charge the car inside and not reap the benefits of solar charging/ You just would use more juice from your grid charging inside.
And no I do not ever see a day when a solar panel o n top of a car would propel the card down the road all on its own.
That is quite a penalty! However a roof of the car totally covered with solar panels would only be used to charge your battery bank and take energy from the battery bank as the energy is needed.
Sure during sunlight hours the solar would supplement the battery bank no doubt about it. The AC or heater will only be used while driving the car. The rest of the time (98% of the time) the car sits in a place getting charged up.
You would have two choices. charge it outside and reap the benefits of solar energy doing most of your charging or charge the car inside and not reap the benefits of solar charging/ You just would use more juice from your grid charging inside.
And no I do not ever see a day when a solar panel o n top of a car would propel the card down the road all on its own.
I would not call that a "CAR ROOFTOP" solar electric system but a HOEM rooftop solar system
Sure that is for your roof at home. Here is the interesting part. Both SUNPOWER and SOALR CITY pan to piggyback on the EV sales. Good strategy for sure. One could argue that if the owners have a Federal Tax liability and with the 10 K or more they save by NOT buying gasoline in about 5 years that not only would the solar home rooftop collectors be FREE but also when adding the tax credit to the equation the savings form NOT paying the government one could say that that tax credit could be a down payment for a new battery bank for you MIEV. The if you have local ro sate rebates etc that is just icing on the cake.
The time for the EV is NOW! The longer you wait the less incentives will be available to you. Keep in mind the Federal tax credit gets reduced substantially after the manufacturer sells over 200,000 units. IF gas spikes (still likely because we have no idea if someone will start dropping bombs on IRan anytime soon) but if that happens look out!
I am so happy I bought my MIEV a few weeks ago and loving it! That is my 4th EV and I when I called my local dealer and he said they had 6 IN STOCK I rushed out to test drive one. I was sold. I test drove the LEAF and the delivery time was about 4 months. Not fast enough for me when the fuel cost for ME is almost ZERO. (yes I have a home solar electric system)
Sure that is for your roof at home. Here is the interesting part. Both SUNPOWER and SOALR CITY pan to piggyback on the EV sales. Good strategy for sure. One could argue that if the owners have a Federal Tax liability and with the 10 K or more they save by NOT buying gasoline in about 5 years that not only would the solar home rooftop collectors be FREE but also when adding the tax credit to the equation the savings form NOT paying the government one could say that that tax credit could be a down payment for a new battery bank for you MIEV. The if you have local ro sate rebates etc that is just icing on the cake.
The time for the EV is NOW! The longer you wait the less incentives will be available to you. Keep in mind the Federal tax credit gets reduced substantially after the manufacturer sells over 200,000 units. IF gas spikes (still likely because we have no idea if someone will start dropping bombs on IRan anytime soon) but if that happens look out!
I am so happy I bought my MIEV a few weeks ago and loving it! That is my 4th EV and I when I called my local dealer and he said they had 6 IN STOCK I rushed out to test drive one. I was sold. I test drove the LEAF and the delivery time was about 4 months. Not fast enough for me when the fuel cost for ME is almost ZERO. (yes I have a home solar electric system)
