Range extender !

[pbui19]

Does any body know how Siai connected his fast DC charging ? can that same connection used to augment DC power while driving ? causing the computer to think the car is going down hill or a gradual down grade ?

I am thinking of a setup of towing a small diesel 1-cylinder generator, adding electrical charge while driving to extend the range. The idea of using diesel is that I can also use veggie oil.

Just dreaming right now, as I have to wait until through the warranty period, unless i get my hand on a crashed iMiev

 

[PV1]

I think at first, he tapped the HV bus in the motor drive inverter. Later on, he swapped out the CHAdeMO port with an Anderson connector and manually applied 12 volts to the QC contactors. If it worked for stationary charging, it'll work for tying in a generator (the method he used required the car to be READY).

I attempted the diesel genset idea. I couldn't find an affordable option for a DC generator (or even rectified 3-phase) at the voltage level required (350 volts DC).

 

[DonDakin]

Found this recently, Looks like an inverter with a low voltage (12-48) ? volt pack running the standard charger in Europe.


https://youtu.be/NlZ6BOzn41g

Don.....

 

[jray3]

Interesting, but I don't see it as very practical. If stopping for an L1 recharge, it is easy enough to find an outlet and not take the penalty for hauling extra batteries on the journey. But, the small battery and inverter could appeal so some campers, preppers and off-grid tiny home denizens. If stranded far from an outlet, another motorist with a rope will become your best friend for a few miles of forced regen.

 

[PV1]

So, I've been thinking about how we could gain some extra miles when only 120 volts are available. For a couple grand, one could take two Tesla Model S battery modules in series, a 1,000 watt lithium ion charger like this one (http://www.batteryspace.com/smart-charger-1500w-for-sla-li-ion-limnni-lifepo4-rechargeable-battery-pack---ce-listed.aspx), and a 48 volt pure sine wave inverter like this one (http://invertersrus.com/product/aims-picoglf80w48v240vs/) and add 10 kWh of extra on-board energy.

How this works is that the charger plugs into the 120 volt outlet to provide 1,000-1,200 watts to the Tesla modules. The inverter pulls from the modules and feeds the car 240 volts, so it charges at 3 kW. The Tesla modules discharge at about 2,000 watts and would last about 5 hours, just about the right amount of time to fully recharge the I-MiEV. If the Tesla modules deplete, the inverter goes into low voltage shutdown and the car stops charging, but the 120 volt charger continues and starts recharging the Tesla modules automatically. If the car finishes before the modules deplete, then the modules also continue charging until unplugged or full. If two separate, but close, 120 volt circuits are available, then the car and modules could be simultaneously but separately charged at level 1 speeds each.

It would take 10 hours to fully recharge the modules on their own.

Pretty similar to the idea in the video, but with the benefit of making use of a 110 outlet while charging the car with stored energy. It's not an efficient setup for everyday use, but for someone like me that makes occasional trips to job sites where only 110 is available, it could be handy as a range extender. Plus, all that heat from the inverter and charger would keep the interior warm while parked in the winter.

(Theoretical setup. I do not claim that this will work as I haven't tested it, but do so at your own risk if you follow through)

 

[jray3]

As I have a salvaged i-MiEV pack on standby, the olde idea of a second trailer-mounted pack is teasing me, and whaddaya know, something useful and relevant popped up on EVTV! Jack connected two 85 kWh TESLA packs together, one at low state of charge and the other high.
EV Drag racers used this technique many years ago, dubbed "dump charging". Sure enough, EVen with a 55V diffferential between the packs, amps remained quite manageable and the packs equalized their states of charge in a civilized manner.

So, I'm encouraged about the chances of running a range pack in parallel with the OEM pack without any fancy controls. Every so often, one ought to switch the BMS connections to let the range pack equalize and take some CanIon snapshots, but many folks have evidence that LiFePO4 battery packs tend to stay in balance for quite a long time without a BMS.

Full EVTV post at http://evtv.me/2018/02/trump-tarrif-internet-wonderland-alice-joins-metoos/

 

[GdB]

As I have a salvaged i-MiEV pack on standby, the olde idea of a second trailer-mounted pack is teasing me, and whaddaya know, something useful and relevant popped up on EVTV! Jack connected two 85 kWh TESLA packs together, one at low state of charge and the other high.
EV Drag racers used this technique many years ago, dubbed "dump charging". Sure enough, EVen with a 55V diffferential between the packs, amps remained quite manageable and the packs equalized their states of charge in a civilized manner.
...
So, I'm encouraged about the chances of running a range pack in parallel with the OEM pack without any fancy controls. Every so often, one ought to switch the BMS connections to let the range pack equalize and take some CanIon snapshots, but many folks have evidence that LiFePO4 battery packs tend to stay in balance for quite a long time without a BMS.

I'm very skeptical that the discharged battery can end up with more than 50%, it defies logic, especially since there will be a lot of resistance losses during the initial peak current phase. The GS Yuasa LEV50 and LEV50N battery data available on the internet could be used to estimate this dump charge in an Excel spreadsheet.

Perhaps connecting the OEM pack in parallel with the salvage pack would work better. The range, battery meter, etc software would probably get confused by the 2X capacity, but otherwise I don't see why it would not work.

 

[PV1]

The discharged pack started at 30% charge, so if the other one was at 100%, then the pack's equalizing at 62% is reasonable. The low pack gained 32%, so the high pack had to lose at least 35%, which would put it at 97% starting charge at a minimum, which is where it looked like it started.

3% of an 85 kWh pack is 2.55 kWh, which is a fair amount of heat.

I would be very interested to see how the RR gauge handles 32 kWh of battery. I guess we'd find out if 109 miles is the upper limit.

 

[Gencis]

I am planning some longer trip with Imiev in the region where are big distances between charging stations and was thinking to add few batteries and inverter on board in case I will run out of juice.
But as I not very good in electronics and electris, I got confused in calculating of required batteries.
For inverter I am thinking to use PowerWalker Inverter 5000 PSW or simillar.
But what about the battery. For example if I need 3 kWh to charge, what battery capacity I need.
I would use 4 batteries 12 V or 2 batteries 24V.
Current will be 16 A.
How many Ah batteries should I choose?

 

[JoeS]

Gencis, when we first got our i-MiEVs, many of us contemplated carrying around some spare 'fuel', just in case...
Although I once threw in my 48v LiFePO4 pack and an inverter into my i-MiEV so I could charge my Sparrow at an EV car show, I've never actually done something like this for peace-of-mind during an extended i-MiEV trip.

Before I start, first a question: when you say 16A, I assume you mean at 220vac and not 48vdc? For the i-MiEV, it's probably closer to 13A at 220vac. If you meant 16A at 48vdc, that's 768W, which is pretty slow...

To answer your question, you desire to charge the i-MiEV utilizing a 48v trunk-mounted battery bank through a 48vdc --> 220vac inverter and put about 3kWh into the car which means running the i-MiEV charger for about an hour from the 48v battery --> inverter --> portable EVSE.

Guestimating our losses at around 25%, you'd need to start with about 4kWh if you're going to deplete that 48v battery completely (not a good idea). So, 4000Wh/48v = 83Ah

Four Group 27 lead-acid batteries in series weighing 29kg (64lbs) each might do the job. Let's see...

Current draw on that 48v battery would be also on the order of 4000W/48v = 83A. :shock: That's awfully high...

I doubt that the battery bank would last an hour at this rate. See, for example, this Trojan battery spec:
http://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/datasheets/27AGM_Trojan_Data_Sheets.pdf

All that, just to gain an extra 12 miles (20km), at best, in that one hour. Nasty weight penalty, and I wouldn't be surprised if this setup poops out before the hour has passed so you probably need to go to a larger battery size. Ouch!

Perhaps these few numbers show that it might not be a good idea, at least with lead-acid batteries. Somebody please check my math.

I, personally, would be inclined to save myself the money and significant weight and simply practice my hypermiling skills. We have a saying around here: our range is whatever we want it to be, and drive accordingly. I can get an extra 20km simply by slowing down, and not all that much.

May I suggest that you plan your trip meticulously and identify places where you can stop to charge. I just looked on PlugShare and you seem to have excellent EV charging coverage in Lithuania. 220vac is your standard wall voltage, so all you need is a sympathetic restaurant owner as you stop for a long lunch...

 

[Gencis]

Thank you for the information. Now I get better idea about batteries. I saw some videos in youtube, like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlZ6BOzn41g&t=1s

so thought this idea could work. But with your, JoeS, calculation I can see that carrying additional 130 kg plus it would cost around 1.500 EUR. And finally max range I get 20 km. So it is too expensive and too little use. I think this is the step each new EV owner has to pass

 

[mistert]

Why not use ultra capacitors to extend the range a little bit:

https://newatlas.com/nawa-technologies-carbon-ultra-capacitor/54972/

These are for over a few years, but supercapacitors you can already buy :

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/super-capacitor-400v_60803400869.html?spm=a2700.7724857.normalList.41.43417291Jqa7po

I am not a HV elektronics engineer but normal low voltage battery always have large capacitors to cope with high peak currents.
Strange there are no huge capacitors in an EV battery.
This will extend the live of the battery pack for sure, and maybe if you make them large enough extend the battery with a few extra Kwh.
If you put them in parallel with the battery pack it will automaticly being charged when the battery is charged.
You have to limit the current of course or you will blowup the charger..
The brake gereneration will work 70% better because all the current can be absorbed by the capacitors.
And the current to the motor can almost be unlimited, so the Imiev will fly

Although there is the problem that if you make a capacitor pack for 400V only a small portion of the capacitor will be used. Because the voltage will never go lower then 300V, only 1/4 of the capacitors will be used. So maybe a DCDC converter is needed and use a 46V capacitor pack.

 

[acensor]

Don wrote, in part, as a reply...
".....The car is very well engineered for what it was designed to do - A mostly urban commuter car with a 60 to 80 mile range. If that suits your needs, then buying an iMiEV is an excellent choice, IMO

If you need to go farther or faster, you should look into buying a car which has those capabilities, rather than trying to redesign something that was never intended for such use - A Chevy Volt sounds like the perfect car for what you want to do . . . . or maybe a plug in Prius..."

FWIW I completely agree with him.
I will add you might be very pleasantly surprised at how cheaply you can buy a used Volt that has come off lease.
https://www.truecar.com/used-cars-for-sale/listings/chevrolet/volt/?searchRadius=500&sort[]=price_asc

And most of them will have very little age/wear on the internal combustion engine.
For example, one of my friends locally owns one and since she gets about 40 miles range on the plug-in batteries and 85% of her driving is within 40mile round trip with 30,000 miles and 3 years on the Volt there's probably not 8000 miles on the engine. If you find one with, say 80,000 miles on it keep in mind that there's likely way less than 80,000 on the engine.

The Volt is a well engineered plug-in hybrid with high performance and some clever features (such as the fact that, unlike our battery packs, IIRR if one cell in the main battery goes bad it can be replaced without replacing the whole battery pack. Ironic that the company that tried to kill the electric car did such a good job on the Volt.
And now, sadly, GM is going to discontinue making the Volt. IIRR the 2019 will be its last model year.

Alex

 

[Phximiev]

Another range extender idea:

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1131725_could-free-piston-range-extenders-broaden-the-electric-truck-horizon

 

[Don]

Don wrote, in part, as a reply...FWIW I completely agree with him.
"If you need to go farther or faster, you should look into buying a car which has those capabilities, rather than trying to redesign something that was never intended for such use - A Chevy Volt sounds like the perfect car for what you want to do . . . . or maybe a plug in Prius..."

I will add you might be very pleasantly surprised at how cheaply you can buy a used Volt that has come off lease.
https://www.truecar.com/used-cars-for-sale/listings/chevrolet/volt/?searchRadius=500&sort[]=price_asc

. . . . and the technology in the 2016 and newer Volts is simply amazing. It's a luxurious 3,500 pound car which can go 70 miles on battery power and another 350 miles on an 8 gallon fuel tank, averaging nearly 45 mpg at reasonable freeway speeds. The blending of battery and Gas power is what makes it all possible. In the later models (2016 and newer) the Voltec drivetrain is very different from earlier models. The gas engine can be directly coupled to the wheels with an electronic clutch via a planetary gear system and the gas engine can run at it's most economical, constant speed, while the speed of the car can vary using the electric drive train coupled to the wheels by a second planetary gear system. Speed up or slow down the Electric drive while the gasoline drive maintains it's optimum engine RPM. In addition to directly powering the car, the gasoline engine is also providing generator power to the electric drive system. Come to a hill and the electric drive can dip into the battery for the extra power needed to get up the hill, rather than asking more from the gasoline drive and then put that power back into the battery on the downside of the hill

It's amazing that you can buy a low mileage, well equipped $40K Volt for ~$15K. Get a 2017 or newer Premier version and you can have Adaptive Cruise Control and Lane Keep Assist and the car almost drives itself - Some owners have added a bit of kit with an extra camera and the car will drive itself. We have a 2017 Premier with all the options as our 'out of town car' and we love it, though we're not putting that many miles on it - We bought it used 3 years ago and I think it has about 27,500 on it now

Don

 

[Phximiev]

Ditto for the 2014 Volt, which we have and have driven over 50k miles mostly on electric.

But a separate range extender may be suitable for some. I remember the pusher trailer developed by one of our members (the forum link seems to have eluded me!) that seemed very successful.

 

[jray3]

I don't believe I've mentioned my newest pusher project on here yet, so here it is after a summertime debut at the Greenwood Car Show in Seattle!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lpr27LqX0iM

 

[TobyGadd]

I don't believe I've mentioned my newest pusher project on here yet, so here it is after a summertime debut at the Greenwood Car Show in Seattle!

This is awesome! I wish that something like this was commercially available. Reminds me a little of the BMW i3's range extender--which I thought was a great idea. Thanks for sharing.

 

[JoeS]

Met up with Jay this last weekend at the 10th annual National Drive Electric Steilacoom festival, where he showed off his i-MiEV with pusher trailer, his Kia Soul EV, and his Ford Ranger EV which he enjoys pointing out was Ford's original 'modern' all-electric pickup truck.

That pusher trailer is a work of art. :ugeek: