New Owner: Warning lights and other issues

[porciniman]

My name is Victor and I just joined the forum.
I need some help with this triangle warning light I'm seeing on my 2016 i-MiEV.
I just bought it used with only 5300 miles on it, and a about a week ago I noticed
the yellow triangle with the exclamation point light come on along with the Regen braking light and the 2 traction lights coming on all at the same time. This happens after driving only a few miles. I found that stopping, taking out the key and restarting the car turns the warning lights off, but they return after a few more miles. I've found the traction light on the left blinks every once in a while, also.
The car made it the entire 20 plus miles of the trip, but these lights obviously concern me.
I read on these boards that the 1st thing I should check is the 12v battery. I did and found it to be bad so replaced it. The lights still have come back on even with the new battery, yet even with the warning lights, it doesn't seem to affect the driving of the car. I did notice this morning that I started out with 70 miles for my charge range, but after a 20 plus mile drive, I was down to 26 miles remaining! Could 30 degree weather really have that much of an impact on milage, or are these warning lights telling me something different?
I live in the mountains of Westen NC, where the roads are hilly and the need to give it more throttle going up these steep roads which seems to drain the battery at highway speeds.
Just driving around town, stop and go, the mileage usage is fine.
I'm wondering if it's just the codes that need to be reset or are these lights the reason the last owner got rid of the car?
The only Mitsubishi dealer is 25 miles away and I'd really like to avoid a dealership, since they
don't have any electric cars I'm not sure I trust them to diagnose the issue!!! I'm pretty sure I'm the only i-MiEV owner in 3 counties, so I'm kinda limited in who can work on this car.
Any assistance y'all could provide would be greatly appreciated.

 

[kiev]

Welcome to some fun driving.

Good move to check/replace the 12V.

How about checking the tire pressure and inspect the wear on the tires? If there is excessive wear then the regen and traction control is disabled, which throws a code and gives you the dash lights.

If those are all good, then there may be an electrical issue such as a bad wheel speed sensor, etc., and you will need to read the codes to know where to start looking. A dealer can do it with their MUT scan tool, or you can with an OBDII dongle and a phone app.

 

[JoeS]

Hi Victor (porciniman), and welcome to the forum, and it was nice exchanging PM/emails with you to get you started.

That 2016 i-MiEV with so few miles was certainly an enticing purchase.

You covered multiple issues, so let's tackle each one with my own opinions -

1. Excellent first step was to replace that 12v battery.

2. Traction light and sudden loss of regen is normal on wet/icy or even bumpy roads especially when going down a curve at speed. Disconcerting when you first experience it, but shows the Active Stability Control system is trying to help. Kenny (kiev) is right about tire pressure (note that it should be at least 36psi). You undoubtedly have the OEM tires with that little mileage on the car.

3. Indicated range remaining (RR) varies tremendously, especially in cold weather. Turning on the heater knocks it down by 20%, and even more if a/c turns on to try to dry the air to de-mist the windows. Range Remaining is simply a moving average based on how you were driving for the past 15 miles and can drop alarmingly as you're climbing up hills for a while or roaring down the highway at 75mph or even if driving in rain/snow as rolling resistance increases significantly in those conditions. Your experience is normal. Lots of hypermiling tricks to counteract that. For example, in winter just use your seat heater and turn off the car heater as the seat heater consumes negligible power. Simply slowing down on the highway works wonders, as aerodynamic drag is a killer at higher speeds. The fact that you started off with RR=70 miles tells me your battery is in good shape.

4. Most of us have never gone back to the dealer except for a few recalls in the early days.

5. Codes - a number of ways to read them, but you do need to get some special OBDII interface adapters and apps or tools. I use the iCarSoft i909 myself for reading codes, but there are a number of other hardware/software options.
http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4950
Note that generic ICE OBDII equipment should NOT be attached to our i-MiEVs unless compatibility has been proven beforehand.

6. Yes, the warning lights are very disconcerting, but great that your car drives 'normally' with them. Let's see if we can help you troubleshoot your car...

Good luck, and again welcome to our forum.

 

[porciniman]

Thanks for the replies.
Isn't an OBDII interface adapter something my car mechanic would have?
I have a guy I trust to do my repairs. Could I take it to him and have him run the diagnostic?
As far as a MUT Scan Tool, it's my understanding that only Mitsubishi dealers have these. and the nearest dealer
is 25 miles away. Besides, I don't trust dealerships for repairs!!!.. Been ripped off one too many times !!!
So, if I understand correctly, this triangle with the exclamation point is a sort of general purpose warning, rather than
something specific, and all it's telling you is ya gotta run a diagnostic to see what's wrong.
Joe, you mentioned that you use the iCarSoft i909 for reading codes.
Once you've read the codes how have you gone about addressing them to fix the issue?
Like I said, the car seems to run fine, even with these warning lights.
Thanks again for the replies.

 

[JoeS]

Isn't an OBDII interface adapter something my car mechanic would have? I have a guy I trust to do my repairs. Could I take it to him and have him run the diagnostic?

Generic OBDII adapters have been known to light up our dashboard like a Christmas tree and have not worked and the fear is that they may cause damage. Need something proven to be compatible with the i-MiEV.

As far as a MUT Scan Tool, it's my understanding that only Mitsubishi dealers have these. and the nearest dealer
is 25 miles away. Besides, I don't trust dealerships for repairs!!!.. Been ripped off one too many times !!!

Only 25 miles away? You're lucky! Many on this forum have dealerships way out of driving range. Let's see if we can get your problem solved without your having to go anywhere...

Joe, you mentioned that you use the iCarSoft i909 for reading codes.
Once you've read the codes how have you gone about addressing them to fix the issue?

I should have been more specific, as the i909 not only reads but resets the codes. In your case (since you replaced the 12v battery) hopefully they will go away after the reset, but at least reading the codes gets you started troubleshooting. This discussion prompted me to add a line in our i-MiEV app descriptions for reading/resetting DTC capability, as IIRC more than one of the apps does this. I need help in filling in the blanks on that thread...

Like I said, the car seems to run fine, even with these warning lights.

Which is why the first step is to read the DTCs and then erase them.

 

[porciniman]

Okay Joe, I just ordered the iCarsoft i909. It'll be here in a week or so.
Let's see what happens after I use it.
Thanks for all the useful tips!

 

[porciniman]

Okay folks, just received my iCarsoft OBD. Set it up for the i-Miev and got these faults.
IGBT Fail (MCU)
Air Conditioner - fault in communication with ECU, failed to clear DTCs
Meter - fault in communication with ECU
EV ECU - ASC system fail, I was able to clear DTCs
OBC - fault in communication with ECU
Everything else seems fine according to the scanner.
After clearing all the codes the iCarsoft would let me, took the car for a spin.
After 5-6 miles of highway driving, (50 mph) the dash lights came back on.
Did this 3 times, clearing the codes and driving.
Ultimately, no joy !!
Oddly enough, the battery accepts a charge up to 75 miles and the car
drives fine even with the dash lights.
That's the Regen light, both traction control lights and the triangle with the exclamation point !
Shut the car off, wait for all the lights to go out, put the key back in, start it up, dinging sound dings,
ready light comes on and I'm good to go for another 5-6 miles before those lights come back !
Please advise if y'all need more detailed info.
Thanks.

 

[JoeS]

Okay folks, just received my iCarsoft OBD. Set it up for the i-Miev and got these faults.
IGBT Fail (MCU)
Air Conditioner - fault in communication with ECU, failed to clear DTCs
Meter - fault in communication with ECU
EV ECU - ASC system fail, I was able to clear DTCs
OBC - fault in communication with ECU
Everything else seems fine according to the scanner.
After clearing all the codes the iCarsoft would let me, took the car for a spin...

porciniman, could you list the specific alphanumeric DTCs associated with each of the above?

 

[porciniman]

Here ya go. This is what came up on my carsoft screen.
The scanner only goes to model year 2014 so that's the year I used. I have a 2016.
ECU Version info:
Supplies Confirm: 64
Confirm: 00
Diagnostic Version: 07
Hardware Version: 0202
Software Version: 000203
hardware part # 8637A709
Air Conditioner, Meter, and OBC all show: fault in communication with ECU. No DTC shown
on any of them, nothing to clear !
ET ACS: display CAN timeout Not Equipped
EV ECU: ASC System Fail.. Code Shown: P1AE7
MCU: IGBT Fail (MCU) Code Shown: P0A78

BMU, EV/iMiEV and DC/DC converter: No DTCs

 

[porciniman]

Had my electric car guy look at the issue for 2 hours and was basically told,
Mitsubishi hasn't published any fixes on how to address these codes !
My only option is to take it to a dealership and be without the car for who knows how long and for HOW MUCH $$$$ !!
We did come up with a theory about the warning lights.
The car had sat for 5 days in the cold and when I went to use it, the new battery I had just put in,
Was DEAD !
So, it seems like the battery not only is not being charged, but there's a drain on the battery somewhere
in the system. So for now, I've hooked up the battery with a battery disconnect to the negative terminal.
I can put trickle charge on it once a week so I can at least keep the car's main battery fully charged.
Interestingly enough, the car will give me a full charge of 70-75 miles, and even if the dash warning lights are on,
the car runs fine for any errands I have to do around town.
That can usually be anywhere from 15-20 miles at most.
So, unless and until I get some answers on how to fix these codes, I'll use the car as I've been using it,....
just driving around town to do my errands !
If I have to go to the next town or drive any long distance, I have still my trusty Chevy Trail Blazer SUV !
I'm gonna write to Mitsubishi to see if they'll give me any help with these codes, so I can be pointed in the right direction.
In the meantime, I'll keep my eyes peeled here for any suggestions.

 

[TobyGadd]

I'm sure that others with more experience and knowledge will chime in soon. But here's my two cents: The dead 12v battery probably caused your car to throw all of those codes--and a fresh battery will prevent them from happening again. Maybe you can get the codes reset, and then see what happens?

 

[JoeS]

porciniman, I re-read your above posts and nowhere did I find any mention of a 12v problem continuing after your original post.

Your i909 readout did not show a 12v battery voltage level (it takes some poking around to find it - for example, on my i-MiEV I found a voltage reading of 14.08v in the ABS section with the car in READY). By far, I prefer to make a direct measurement at the 12v battery itself with an accurate voltmeter.

I presume that you or your electric car guy took some readings right at the 12v battery both with the car turned OFF as well as in READY. What were the readings? I would expect to see 14.4v with the car in READY and dropping down to somewhere around 12.65v maybe a few hours after the car is turned OFF (temperatures around 68°F (20°C).

After concluding that the battery is being drained with power OFF did your electric guy measure the current drain (in milliamps)? I had measured 12ma on my i-MiEV with doors closed (no dome light) and nothing plugged into the OBDII port, irrespective of whether the car was locked or not.
Ref: http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3067&start=50#p43982

Regarding manually recharging your 12v battery, make sure you are using a modern charger and especially not an antique 'trickle charger' with unregulated voltage. Does the charger (either a regular smart charger or float charger) go into 'float' - usually indicated by a steady green light on many chargers?

Until things are resolved, I would leave a float charger permanently attached to your 12v battery whenever the car is not being used.

Postscript: maybe an hour after I had played with my i909 to find the 12v voltage, and had come back into the house, my wife had gone to the garage for something and mentioned that the dome light was on in my i-MiEV! Yep, I had turned on one of the lights by the rear-view mirror. I thought all the dome lights extinguish after some pre-set period of time (1/2-hour?). DUH! (hint)

 

[porciniman]

Hey Joe,
the main thing my electric car guy found; Mitsubishi does not have any published material on how to
fix or address these codes !
My mechanic, who uses this electric car guy, basically told me that leaving the car on a trickle charge all the time would eventually
ruin the battery, that's why he recommended the battery disconnect. It was only $11 and it's easy enough to
connect with the screw attachment.
As long as I can drive the car with no other issues, I can live with it for now, at least I can find out how Mitsubishi address'
and fixes these codes.

 

[porciniman]

Hi Toby,
that's what I thought. I had the original battery tested and it was bad. Replaced it in the last month.
It still threw the codes. Tried to clear the codes 3 times, but the lights keep coming back on the dash.
The car runs fine otherwise. I'll keep looking to solve the issue, and thanks for the input.

 

[JoeS]

porciniman, you have a situation whereby your brand new 12v battery inexplicably went flat within a week. That is a greater problem than the unexplained dashboard lights and DTCs which evidently don't prevent your car from being driven.

May I suggest that the tests I suggested be performed in order to determine if the dc-dc is working and to quantify the vampire current drain on your 12v battery. I'd also be inclined to run a load test on this new battery as even brand-new batteries have been known to have issues.

A modern temperature-compensated float 'maintenance' charger can be left attached to a 12v FLA or AGM battery pretty-much indefinitely. An old-fashioned unregulated 'trickle charger' will murder any 12v battery except perhaps an Edison nickel-iron one.

 

[porciniman]

Joe wrote,
"May I suggest that the tests I suggested be performed in order to determine if the dc-dc is working"
The code that came up for that test showed 3 times .. DC/DC converter: No DTCs
Am I missing something??

 

[JoeS]

...Am I missing something??

Edit: The reason for pursuing this path is that your brand new battery going dead after a week is not normal and the reason for it being seriously discharged needs to be understood.

Since the 12v battery has a long history of being THE culprit in so many random and unexplained issues with the i-MiEV, I believe we need to categorically rule it out before going after your individual DTC issues.

For the following tests, make sure you have a reasonably-accurate voltmeter for the first two tests and a multimeter capable of reading current for the last one.

The first two tests are trivial.

a) First thing in the morning after the car has been sitting unused overnight, what is the voltage reading at the battery BEFORE you start the car?
Expected result: 12.6vdc

b) After the car is in READY, what is the voltage reading at the battery?
Expected result: 14.4vdc

c) What is the measured vampire drain from the 12v battery when everything is turned off?
Expected result: 12ma

To measure this vampire drain current, first make sure the doors are closed and there is nothing plugged into the OBDII port and the dome lights are off and the key is out of the ignition. To measure vampire drain, set the multimeter by starting at the 10A setting and be sure your leads are properly plugged in to read this higher current. Lift the negative cable (which leads to chassis ground) and bridge that terminal and the cable with your multimeter leads and take a reading. I would expect close to zero. Next, change the multimeter setting to read milliamps (maybe 100ma setting), ensure the leads are properly plugged in to the multimeter to measure this lower current setting (depending on the multimeter, you may need to relocate the leads to their normal location), and again bridge the multimeter leads from the battery negative terminal to the disconnected (ground) cable. At this point I would expect a reading under 20ma. Be careful, as performing this test can easily let the smoke out of the multimeter.

Since your i-MiEV is a 2016, I am not expecting any issues with the dc-dc converter as by 2016 the OBC/dc-dc had been redesigned to address the failures that some had been experiencing with the older i-MiEVs.