How to shift gears

[Palm35]

I have a C-Zero 2012 and I have changed the shifter indicator cover panel and the plastic shifter guidance.
(I have bought them at a member of this forum in the beginning of 2015)
So the part numbers are :

Shifter guidance P-R-N-D-B-C Mitsu : MN113385-02
Shifter guidance P-R-N-D PSA : MN113385ZZ-35

(PSA = Peugeot-Citroën)


http://imageshack.com/a/img913/6938/PABu1N.jpg

Shifter indicator cover panel
P-R-N-D-B-C Mitsu : grey 2420A012-22 (near this number I have too this : MN11338522-27)
P-R-N-D PSA : black 2420A071

 

[kiev]

i like that the letters for the gates are on the left side (toward the driver) on the black PRND cover--can't really understand why they would put them on the right...?

 

[jsantala]

I made this cover as a temporary solution until I can source a proper cover:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vvfq6r1jgoebwzt/2015-09-05%2010.53.22.jpg?dl=0

Any tips on where one might find salvage Mitsu parts?

 

[kiev]

Would there be any machine shops in your area? Seems like the cover could be clamped in a vise and milled out. i have a bridgeport mill and could easily do it for you--it would just cost you shipping.

Come to think of it, if we had a 3-d model of the part it could be made with a plastic printer or milled out of a solid block of black pvc on a CNC mill--maybe make one with less offset of the gates for tigger...

 

[jsantala]

Yes, the wifey also suggested 3D printing right away, but we don't have a 3D printer at our disposal so the problem with that and a lot of the other solutions is that they end up costing more than the new OEM part. Also I kinda like the idea of keeping the original part untouched just in case there's an urgent need to sell the car or something. Then it may be beneficial to retain a stock look.

 

[misterbleepy]

i like that the letters for the gates are on the left side (toward the driver) on the black PRND cover--can't really understand why they would put them on the right...?

Maybe that cover is for a RHD car?

 

[Aerowhatt]

--just move the lever... No, this is a How-To article on changing the function of the shift gates.

Shifting Gear Positions

I don't know Kenny. I've done a lot of pin moving in my history but after pulling that plug off and looking at it I wouldn't touch that one. Just too small and too tightly packed. Perhaps the end at the switch end will be more amenable to tampering.

Aerowhatt

 

[Palm35]

Maybe that cover is for a RHD car?

No, the black cover on the left in my picture is for a LHD car !
I am in France and it was in my Citroën C-Zero

 

[misterbleepy]

Maybe that cover is for a RHD car?

No, the black cover on the left in my picture is for a LHD car !
I am in France and it was in my Citroën C-Zero

I meant the markings on the silver mitsubishi cover on the right of your picture - those are on the correct side for a RHD car.

 

[Aerowhatt]

I think my favorite gear profile would be for neutral to be in between Drive and Eco. Imagine being able to slip directly into neutral from either.

Aerowhatt

 

[jsantala]

I got my shiny new cover in the mail today and immediately went to install it.

Obviously when a car is brought to the U.S. and it's someone's job to make chances, you make changes no matter what. In this case, six of then ten locating pins or clips where a few millimeters off, so I just chopped them off and now it fits. It's still securely in place, since it really has nowhere to go under the big piece of plastic above it.

Anyway, there it is:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7yno0vdmi4b3zye/2015-10-08%2014.12.47.jpg?dl=0

B and C didn't magically chance into Eco and B on the dash, but no matter.

 

[PV1]

Looking good!

Your clip experience sounds like what Apple does with their phones. One of the things I do at work is replace broken iPhone screens. It's quite frustrating that between the iPhone 5, 5c, and 5s, the screen on each one is different :twisted: . If the clips aren't moved around, the home button or the connector is different. Same goes for the iPhone 4 and 4s, though the addition of a SIM card slot helps to justify the change. But, I digress.

I've thought about switching ECO and D, but I like that the further back I go, the more regen I get. I'm too used to D, Eco, B that I couldn't change the order.

 

[jsantala]

The euro version isn't logical in any way since D had average regen, B more and C less. I don't really use D at all anymore now that I unlocked B and C. I use B in the city and C on longer distances. Since short trips include getting in an out of the car, so B should probably be the default and first selection and then C next.

 

[DBMandrake]

Your test result is interesting--so it appears that, at least for your car,

1. the accelerator function is identical in all three gears, DBC,

2. but the regen level varies from greatest to least, BDC.

Now i'm curious about how the levels of acceleration are varied for us with DEB and not so for you with DBC. i wonder if it is just your car not having this since it was sold with only D? or if this is true for EU cars sold with DCB?

Replying to a really old thread I know... but I wanted to add some extra information.

I've modified my 2011 Peugeot Ion a while ago to enable the two extra drive modes and there is in fact a difference in the accelerator pedal mapping in B and C modes compared to D.

For regeneration the amount of regeneration you get from only lifting the accelerator is approximately:

C- 25%
D - 50%
B - 75%

Touching the brake pedal lightly in each mode gives the remaining regeneration before the friction brakes are applied.

For acceleration B and C map the accelerator differently above about 12 o'clock on the power meter. Below 12 o'clock there is no difference in power output between the three modes, however above about 12 o'clock the power output for a given accelerator pedal position is reduced in B & C modes (by the same amount) compared to D mode.

This can be demonstrated by holding the power meter at say 2 o'clock at 60mph in D, then switching to either B or C with the accelerator held constant - the power meter will drop significantly and so will speed. At lower power levels there is no change in power output with mode.

So the cars acceleration definitely feels more responsive in the 2nd half of the accelerator pedal range in D, and the "kick" that you get when using the 2nd half of the accelerator in D is missing in B and C.

It's hard to be sure without measuring with Canion (which I will be able to do soon - just waiting on my OBD-II dongle) but I don't think the maximum foot to the floor acceleration is reduced, rather the linearity of the throttle mapping in the 2nd half of the range is changed.

Early Ion/C-Zero have the same drive modes as the Japanese/European i-Miev (and the same order on the gear lever) and only use a mechanical block to lock out the modes however I've read that later C-Zero/Ion's (post 2012 I believe - possibly the models that switched from 88 to 80 cells) no longer have a functioning C and B mode even when mechanically unblocked.

On these cars the dashboard will still display C and B when modifying the gear lever but the car will not drive at all or only very slowly in the extra modes.

On these later Ion/C-Zero PSA claim to have "increased" regeneration, presumably meaning that D mode has similar regeneration to what the unlocked B mode had on the earlier cars, and during this reprogramming of D mode the hidden B and C modes were nobbled.

 

[kiev]

Since then also i have found that the accelerator pedal has two separate hall sensor channels.

One channel uses a ~5V range full scale, the other is only half that, ~2.5V full scale.

My guess is that the gear position selection causes the EV-ECU to use either the main or sub channel as the input command voltage. That is seen by your test of holding constant speed and pedal position, then switching gear position.

The Fiat 500E has a nearly identical accelerator pedal with the same hall sense scaling.

 

[JoeS]

Since then also i have found that the accelerator pedal has two separate hall sensor channels.
One channel uses a ~5V range full scale, the other is only half that, ~2.5V full scale...

Thanks for these posts. Interesting that they would go to the trouble of having two Hall sensors instead of simply doing this in software.

The difference in gain between D or B and ECO is very noticeable (i.e., for any partial pedal position the applied power in ECO is much less), but I was under the impression that flooring the accelerator in ECO nevertheless provides full power. Guess a controlled test with CaniOn is in order...

As an aside, I'm glad to see manufacturers now realizing that many of us really like higher regen and are providing it (e.g., BoltEV). Unfortunately, rear-wheel-drive vehicles have limitations due to premature wheel lockup - but that's all nicely managed by sensors/software nowadays.

 

[PV1]

The US I-MiEV most definitely goes to full power in all 3 drive modes. ECO extends the pedal travel required to go full power by roughly twice that of Drive or Brake.

My guesses on why there are two sensors are either to facilitate the different drive modes (which is easily done in software) or, more likely, as a safety measure in case one of the sensors goes open or short (which could result in no acceleration or full throttle). I'd bet the computer looks for both inputs to sweep the same to prevent unintended acceleration from a failing sensor.

 

[kiev]

i think you are right that both are read and compared for a sanity check and to provide redundancy.

The lower range sensor would also be used while in R--no need for huge torques and high acceleration while backing up...