Hopeful owner looking for consultation - EVSE - wiring...

[blackheart]

Hello - brand new member here - the only EV I currently have is a Rad Rover bike and I love it.
I am currently searching, and think I have found, a 2012 I-miev with the CHAdeMO option. I now need to get on the fast track to make sure my house (1938 with no exterior plugs) can take a level two charger.
I am looking for help in finding out about programs, rebates, aids, anything that PGE might have available to help me with installing an EVSE. Can anyone help? Thanks so much!!!

 

[databeestje]

It's easier for me in the EU as everything is what you consider to be a level 2

I just bought a 2nd hand EVSE and hooked that up, pulled some outdoor cable and mounted it on the wall, pretty painless really. It's hardwired to the mains as most plugs are not well suited to high currents for prolonged time (hello Shucko).

If you have a 208 (iirc) Volt circuit you should be able to get by with a 16A or better breaker. The 3kW charger isn't too hard on your house i'd guess. If you have something like central A/C it shouldn't be an issue.

The Chademo is purely for the DC fastchargers, you won't have that plug at your house. It's not impossible, but there's a price.

Get a EVSE with a fixed cord if you use it every day, it made my life easier, yours probably as well. See if you can register somewhere for a charge network that you are likely to use. I have a label attached to my car key ring so that I never leave home without it.
For the EU I got a Type-2 to Type-1 cable for public charging, I need that one for the EVSE at work. Get a small plastic crate for in the back or a nice bag to hold your cable whilst on the road. I velcro'ed a small basket in the rear in mine.

 

[blackheart]

Thanks. Yeah - no CHAdeMO at home but level two.
We have a normal 220v for our dryer.
As I have been looking, most of the EVSE's have a weatherproof enclosure. If I can't get wiring to the garage, I will just mount the box on the backside of the house - if the wife will allow ;-)

 

[siai47]

The EVSE can only draw the amount of current that the charger in the car can accept. In the case of the I-MiEV with its 3.3 KW charger, the maximum draw on a 240 volt (level 2) circuit is less than 15 amps. If you haven't bought the EVSE, check with EVSE upgrade to get a multi volt portable EVSE similar to the one that comes with the car. With adapters, you can charge from both 120 and 240 volt circuits with a unit about the same size or smaller than what comes with the car. All you need is a 20 amp, 240 volt twistlock receptacle mounted in a weatherproof box either in your garage, or outside if you desire. Plug in and charge at the car's maximum AC rate. Simplest, cheapest way to go.

 

[blackheart]

Awesome. Thanks!!

 

[tigger19687]

I only have a regualr Plug and it suits just fine...

GL !

 

[blackheart]

I only have a regualr Plug and it suits just fine...

GL !

tigger19687 - do you mean the 120v plug or using the adapter as siai47 mentioned.
My daily miles would be about 45 miles, and about 80% of that will be freeway. Looking at how long it takes for the car to charge off a 120v plug, and how long the car would be home (average of 10 hours), I will need something quicker than 120v.

I am asking if the dealer (they are 750 miles from me) to send me a pic of the "charger" or EVSE that came with the car and the remote fob. Just to verify.

The transfer would be $399, and the list price from the dealer is just under $9k, but the car has just under 2k miles.

 

[siai47]

Lets be clear on this stuff. People have a hard time between "chargers" and "EVSE". The charger is built in the car. It is what it is. In the case of the I-MiEV, it has maximum input power of 3.3 Kilowatts and will accept voltages between a little less than 120 to about 250 volts. Many EV's are equipped with larger 6.6 KW chargers with some like the Tesla model S with up to 20 Kilowatts of onboard charging available. The actual charging output is somewhat less do to electrical losses in the charger and the fact that it also uses some of its power to energize the 12 DC system on the car during charging. This is known as the DC-DC converter and in the case of the I-MiEV it is built into the charger. The EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment) is really just a big switch and some circuitry to tell the car's charger how much it can deliver. The stock EVSE that came with a 2012 I-MiEV is designed to tell the charger that it can only supply 8 amps at 120 volts to the car. With 100% efficiency, that amounts to about .96 Kilowatts of input power or about 1/3 of the power the onboard charger could deliver. What makes it even worse, the fixed DC loads that the car needs when charging are far more noticeable on the lower current EVSE's. When you add up the extra time those fixed loads are running due to low input current, it really impacts the efficiency of the charge cycle compared to running the onboard charger at full output. Most EVSE's that are hard wired can deliver at least 30 amps (some as high as 100 amps) at 240 volts to the car's charger if it requests it. In the case of the I-MiEV, it can (and only will request) what it can use which is the 3.3 Kilowatt rating of the charger. There are a ton of electric vehicles out there that were provided with level I chargers--the Volt, LEAF, etc. and to my knowledge all would provide a minimum of 12 amps of current on a 120 volt line. The I-MiEV is the exception. So, as I said earlier, I would look at evseupgrade.com to see what's available to get you a proper level II charger that is weather proof, portable and will operate your onboard charger at full output. Get a couple of adapters from them and you can charge at multiple sites at either 120 or 240 volts. Some people can live with 120 volt charging, but even at that, a 12 amp EVSE would be 1/3 faster then the supplied EVSE in the I-MiEV. Also check e-bay, amazon, etc. for other choices. I know this has all been covered before, but a refresher is sometimes in order.

 

[blackheart]

Thanks - yes, I know the difference between the charger (on board in the car) and the EVSE. But most of the time the dealers I have spoke with don't use the term EVSE so I used 'charger' in quotes.
I guess then my question on this part, and I beleive you alluded to it before, that the standard EVSE that was provided with the Miev from Mitsu was only a level 1? And, since that is the case, I should go to EVSEUgrade.Com and get a level 2 with an adaper.
This is also why I am asking the dealer to send me a pic of what the car has now - so I can tell what it is and be prepared when the car shows up.
Thanks for understanding and going over the basic stuff tho!!

 

[pbui19]

I was considering getting the EVSEUpgrade, but in the end I just purchased the lowest price L2 ESVE from HomeDepot:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-EV-Charger-Indoor-Outdoor-Level-2-DuraStation-Wall-Mount-with-18-ft-Cord-EVDSWGH-CP01/205808537

It's listing $399 but I think I bought it on sale. I like the convenient of not having to lug out the brick. I have mine hung near the ceiling with the cord looped over head in the middle of the 2 car garage. It's quite convenient and easy to use now that we have 2 EVs. Upon parking in the garage, we simply unhook overhead and plug in and just leave the stock L1 brick in the vehicle for opportunity charging on the road. The GE EVSE is an in/out door unit, but the nice feature is that you can select to limit the max current drawn. In my case, since both the Volt and iMiev can only draw ~3.3Kw; it worked out fine to use the existing dryer port. Some EVs, such the eGoft, can pull 7kw which is really pushing the safety margin for a standard 10-3 AWG dryer cable.

so give some thought on how you'll be using it.

 

[blackheart]

Thanks pbui19. If I can get the car quickly, I will end up upgrading the wiring and will probably have to depend on the 110V for a while - possibly the occasional DCFC. We will see. There isn't one close to my work or I would hit that at lunch time.
Thanks tho!!!

 

[jray3]

Hey Blackheart- If you have a Seattle-built RadRover ( http://www.radpowerbikes.com/pages/radrover ) and are on PGE, would that place you in Portland (or the other PGE down in Californica)? I know two of the core staffers at Rad Power Bikes, and those rides are certainly Rad!

Mitsu doesn't seem to care about selling any new cars, so I'd not hesitate to pick up a bargain used car with CHAdeMO, and if there's a fast charger on your usual routes, then yes, it can be practical for regular use with only L1 at home. EVen better is an L2 charger at your place of work (I lucked out in both regards.)

Buying a 12 amp L1 EVSE off EBay/Craigslist will be a big time saver that you can use on nearly any 120V outlet, and it might be possible (check the wiring gauge and condition) to simply upsize your charging outlet to a 20 amp 120V breaker and get a 16 amp 120V EVSE. That's much cheaper on the installation side than running a new circuit, but on 1938 construction, the condition of wiring to take a continuous load like EV charging needs careful review. Let us know if you want help finding particular EVSE features.

 

[Benjamin Nead]

The wiring on my rented house is hit and miss. Like so many older buildings, some of it was done competently and much of it wasn't. When I got my used i-MiEV last November and plugged the EVSE into one of our exterior GFCI outlets the first time, I got the red fault light (ie: no way to charge there.) Subsequently, I found out that the wiring on that circuit was done without a ground wire and a GFCI outlet was simply placed there for decoration! Fortunately, the GCFI on the other side of the house works fine and that's where I'm charging for now.

Note to blackheart: at the very least, find the one outlet in your 1938 house that's grounded (maybe the GFCI in your bathroom or kitchen?) and run a 12 gauge extension cord out the window to the car. That will at least get you charging at home.

One other thing worth noting is that there are two different stock i-MiEV EVSEs. The 2012s all came with a rather heavy duty one made by Panasonic and it's 8A only. This appears to be almost the same one as 2011/12 Leaf owners got with their cars, but theirs are configured for 12A.

The later model year i-MiEVs came with slightly smaller/lighter EVSEs made by Yazaki (not sure if this happened for the 2014 or 2016 model year.) For whatever reason, it was the Yazaki that was supplied to me by the dealer when I purchased the car. These Yazaki units have a button on them that allows you to toggle between 8A and 12A. Plug it into an outlet and it defaults to 8A, then press the button to get a 12A flow before plugging the J1772 end into the car (you can't toggle amperage setting after completing the circuit.)

One of the first things I did after getting the car was check with EVSE Upgrade to see if they could make my Yazaki into something that's 240V compatible. They informed me, unfortunately, that they can't make the Yazaki do that . . . only the Panasonic units.

Although I'm finding that the 12A setting at 120V is more than adequate for my driving needs, I'd still like to get something portable that will do 240V.
One idea is to snag an early Panasonic Leaf EVSE (12A/ 120V) on eBay, where I see them going for around $200, and send that one off to EVSE Upgrade . . . assuming. of course, that the Leaf's EVSE actually functions with the i-MiEV in the first place. It should work, but I haven't tried it.
Has anyone else here tried that?

Another idea is to get something like an Open EVSE kit, or for almost a low a price these days, this clean-looking little Leviton . . .

http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/SectionDisplay.jsp?section=71194&minisite=10251

 

[blackheart]

Thanks - there isn't any ground in the house - One of the things I need to do, just drive a long rod in the back yard and wire something into the main panel. There are some plugs that have been run with three wires in the house... rewire is on the list b/c I'd like to get a small solar array (someday...)

Still trying to get some photos from the dealer about the EVSE that is with the car. I know that the remote climate control/charge timer is not coming with the car. Anyone know how much that is to replace? Or what the part number is? My local Mitsu dealer couldn't find it in their parts department.

I am just wanting to verify some things, in hopes to have the price drop a touch. But I want to initiate the transfer today...

 

[Benjamin Nead]

That remote thingy is expensive to replace . . . something like $1000. I have one with my car but I've yet to use it.

You own your 1938 house, blackheart? Spend the money you would have budgeted for a replacement car remote and get some electrical upgrades for your property . . . proper ground, routing an external GFCI, etc. It will be money well spent and you'll be wanting to do this eventually anyway if solar PV is in your future.

Good luck with getting your i-MiEV. 3 months on and with around 1500 miles on it down the road with mine, I have no regrets.

 

[blackheart]

Yeah - I doubt that I will get the remote replaced - but I am going to try and work it as a pricing issue with the dealer
Thanks!!!

 

[PV1]

My second i-MiEV (used) didn't include the remote, so I was able to get a discount because of that. But yes, the remote itself is $800 with another $200 or so to program it. But, my second car gets driven so little that the remote isn't really worth getting for it. For the two or three times it needs pre-heated, I simply put my space heater in the back and let it run. It actually does a better job than the factory pre-heat settings.

As for the included EVSE, the 2012 models came stock with an 8 amp Panasonic unit, while the 2014 and 2016 models have the Yazaki 8 amp/12 amp units. 8 amps is a pretty safe current as far as wiring goes, but you can still cook something if it has a bad connection or is undersized (smaller than 16 AWG). I would definitely get the wiring up to date for at least the circuit that the car will be using.

 

[blackheart]

I have the pics.
Looks like it is the non-switchable 8 amp EVSE
and no remote
But the CHAdeMO is there - I believe that this is the lever. Can someone confirm in the pic?

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=EC3FB02BB64624EC!5153&authkey=!AF-w9KpuW5QKP6s&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=EC3FB02BB64624EC!5151&authkey=!AL2npelZrOLM2N8&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg

Let me know???? Thanks!!!

 

[PV1]

Yep. That's the CHAdeMO release lever.

I know you said that you were getting a wall-mounted EVSE, but having the EVSEUpgrade done to your cord might also be of some benefit if you charge away from home. The car doesn't use much more power at 12 amps, but charges much quicker (20 hour full recharge down to under 14 hours) on 120 Volts.

 

[blackheart]

Whelp!!! The dealer is replacing the remote and I am getting it for the same price as advertised. Should have about 1700 miles, that is 1,700 (I know, I am going to have to do some battery checking b/c who know how it has been stored) and the price is $8599. With the $399 transfer fee, I might have this car for right at 9k (of course tax and license...).

I have been wanting an electric car since the early 90's at least, wanted to build my own, but children and families being what they are - I just needed to get to work. But now, I am that much closer to getting a little car that will be fueled by what we make right here in my area (good old hydro power).

Many thanks for the newbie help here. Your posts made me feel a little more comfortable taking the plunge so far.
The transfer should be coming in a coupe of weeks. Fingers crossed it is as good or better in person than I saw in the pics!!