Battery Cell Replacement Availability UK

[Lez]

Evening,
I know this subject has been visited before, but I can not seem to find an answer.
Dose anyone know where I can get some new or decent second hand LEV50 battery cells from in the U.K.?

I have got 8 very doggie cells which I want to swap out so my IMiev will get better range.

I have searched all the normal places, like EBay and the such but with no luck.
Any help is very much appreciated.

Thanks Lez
Gloucestershire UK

 

[MickeyS70]

Hi there

Are you sure that your issues are caused by the cells themselves or could it be down to faulty CMUs?(happened to me so that’s why I ask)

Forget about new cells as they stopped making LEV50 more than 10 years ago, what capacity (Ah) do you consider decent?

Mickey

 

[Lez]

Morning Mickey,
I know they haven't made them for a while, but I'm hoping that there might be some around new to me but good second hand ones.

I have checked my battery using the OBD Zero app which showed me all of my battery cells along with there voltages.
When my boss and myself analyzed the data returned to us, we notice that about 8 cells when under load were a lot lower than all the others, and this is what has lead us to believe that we have doggie cells.

Regarding what capacity (Ah) do you consider decent? obviously the higher the better that would match the original ones.

I hope this answers your question.

Thanks
Lez

 

[jray3]

Lez, if you're lucky it will be a single 8-cell module that's low, though that could also indicate a loose connection or bad CMU board. Anyway, I'll suggest that you post the remaining capacity of your current pack, so that anyone with a donor pack at that capacity or greater could help out. I have one in hibernation with 26.4 AH of capacity.
Best Wishes,
Jay

 

[Daneto1978]

Hello i have 88 cells from c-zero 2013year . Check them one by one with battery checkker . Most of the cells left 32 - 33 ah and internal resistance of a battery in milliohms about 55. The price of each cell is 30 euro . I can send them to london office of GGBG .It is a transport company that makes delivery from England to Bulgaria and back from Bulgaria to London .

 

[MickeyS70]

Hello i have 88 cells from c-zero 2013year . Check them one by one with battery checkker . Most of the cells left 32 - 33 ah and internal resistance of a battery in milliohms about 55.

Good and bad news here:
A C-Zero with 88 cells has the old LEV50 pack, 32Ah is not great but probably as good as it gets, however if their internal resistance really is 55mOhm (my 32Ah spare is around 1.5mOhm) you’re probably going to be worse off after all your troubles…

 

[Daneto1978]

With these cells car makes winter 85 -90 km per charge and last summer 100- 105 km .About resistence 0.55 mOhm who writes when it is over 1.00. Yes they are LEV50 cells not LEV50N witch is used in latest c-zero and pegeot ION

 

[MickeyS70]

About resistence 0.55 mOhm

.. excellent, that makes a lot more sense…

 

[jray3]

FYI, Since MMNA hides all email contacts on their website, I'm sending the following by snailmail.

Mitsubishi Motors N.A.
PO Box 689040
Franklin, TN 37068
Attn: Customer Relations

I have purchased a total of three Mitsubishi i-MiEVs, two of them brand new from your dealer in Auburn, WA. I bought them largely because of the obviously more durable battery design than the Nissan Leaf, which has been amply proven by now. However, I take exception to the following statement on your website.

Do electric car batteries need to be replaced?
Batteries in electric or hybrid vehicles are designed to last the lifespan of the vehicle, but battery capacity can be reduced over time, especially if they aren’t being properly charged or stored. Mitsubishi provides a 10-year/100,000-mile limited warranty for its Main Drive Lithium-ion battery.

This is patently false, as the battery on my first i-MiEV fell below 80% of initial capacity at 106,000 miles, when the rest of the car was in excellent condition. I expect a quality Japanese drivetrain to last at least 300.000 miles. However, ten years after release, during a span in which the cost of lithium batteries of all types has fallen by over 82%, the quoted price of a replacement 16 kwh battery hasn’t budged a penny, still at over $15,000. I’ve resorted to replacing the batteries myself from collision- salvage vehicles, and I am now doing so on the third car.

As there are still i-MiEV cars under warranty and Mitsubishi recently announced a production restart for the MiniCab MiEV that shares this battery, it makes no sense to price replacement batteries so prohibitively. If Mitsubishi were an innovative company that supports its early adopters, you would offer not just stock replacement batteries at a reasonable price, but also capacity upgrades, as the third-party aftermarket finally has in Australia. Until such time as Mitsubishi offers reasonably priced replacement parts, I will not purchase another Mitsubishi or any electric vehicle other than TESLA, as they are the only manufacturer offering capacity upgrades on out-of-warranty vehicles.

I would appreciate a response.

 

[kiev]

i hope they reply.

But don't give up hope--Paul (member: piev) has successfully replaced all his cells with 94Ah cells, and used an aftermarket MUT device to perform the FSM RESET procedure to get his RR back up to as-new (~70-80 miles). He said that smaller cells such as 60 Ah are available at a lower price such that he thinks it would be possible to put in new cells and do a RESET to as-new range for a cost of about $3500. Will post more info and status on this as it develops.

 

[Daneto1978]

Yes Paul and I have changed them successfully with 93 Ah cells CATLL NMC, I had to change the firmware of the BMS and for a month and a half my car has a mileage of between 210 and 250 km. I have already driven 3000 km with the upgraded battery and I am more than satisfied. That is why i sell my old cells

 

[MickeyS70]

I had to change the firmware of the BMS

Well done! Did you just change the max capacity setting or were there also adjustments for the different battery chemistry required?

Mickey

 

[Daneto1978]

It need more then just cappacity changed . A man in Rusia reserch his pack from 2019 to 2021 when he sucseed to to change his BMS firmware to read and charge this cells normal . He change my firmware via remote controled laptop . I need to by only original Tactrix open port and instal MUT 3 on laptop .And to pay him for this servise . I am verry happy that find that man

 

[jray3]

i hope they reply.

But don't give up hope--Paul (member: piev) has successfully replaced all his cells with 94Ah cells, and used an aftermarket MUT device to perform the FSM RESET procedure to get his RR back up to as-new (~70-80 miles). He said that smaller cells such as 60 Ah are available at a lower price such that he thinks it would be possible to put in new cells and do a RESET to as-new range for a cost of about $3500. Will post more info and status on this as it develops.

Kenny you've got me salivating over the possibility of new range for $3500. Are there details posted anywhere on PIEV's job?

 

[kiev]

This is still a work in progress and under investigation. i have a thread to document findings on the SAE and ISO specs and documents related to the OBDII port, the CAN Buss, use of scan tools such as the MUT, reprogramming ECUs, etc. In 2004 the government passed a law that opens up the ability to perform on-board diagnostics related to engine emissions to everyone, but the details are not well known to the public, or freely shared or advertised by the OEMs, and the spec documents are numerous and expensive. My approach is to understand the specs and what sort of information is supposed to be available.

David Cecil of OBDZero fame and a few others over on a forum in the EU
have done detailed research into the formula of how the BMU calculates range and capacity; Piev Paul is looking at the details of the CAN commands that the MUT uses for the tasks described in the Factory Service Manual, e.g. reading the list of data items for the BMU, reading the DTCs , etc.; i'm comparing the format of the MUT commands to the SAE list of formats and commands.

Of interest in the BMU data items list is the range of values for capacity, 0 to 60 Ah. David et al have found charging conditions in which the capacity value has actually gone up. So it may be possible to use lower cost 60 Ah cells to replace the old cells and get a natural upgrade by slow charging the car without the need for any reprogramming--this is just a guess on my part after reading David's findings.

The 60Ah cells were priced at $15 each at the time according to piev, but the shipping from China was $20 each. If you order some cells then i would recommend to add a few extra for testing and spares.

To do a MUT RESET as the dealership service tech does for a replaced pack (details are in the FSM) will require purchase of: a windoze PC; the mut software; and a vehicle communication interface (VCI) to talk from PC USB to the OBDII port. The VCI can be made by any vendor and be made to work, but it seems that the Tactrix is favored by the smart guys doing this stuff on Mitsubishi ECUs. Member Justin (boothegermanshepard) has lots of experience reprogramming ECUs but he sold his miev and left the building.

Another option is to get the larger 94Ah cells and go thru the reprogramming by Koly. This also requires a PC, the Mut software and a VCI, plus an internet connection for remote access to your car.

 

[MickeyS70]

Of interest in the BMU data items list is the range of values for capacity, 0 to 60 Ah. David et al have found charging conditions in which the capacity value has actually gone up. So it may be possible to use lower cost 60 Ah cells to replace the old cells and get a natural upgrade by slow charging the car without the need for any reprogramming--this is just a guess on my part after reading David's findings.

From memory others have tried this already, but failed as the BMU got confused with the different charge/discharge characteristics of the new battery chemistry..

 

[CZeroOwner]

From memory others have tried this already, but failed as the BMU got confused with the different charge/discharge characteristics of the new battery chemistry..

You have a point Mickey. I'm sure that this will not work with LiFePO cells. It should be manganese oxide type cells similar to LEV50s. Nickel Manganese Cobalt or NMC cells are more common but the Yuasa reports on the LEV50 and LEV50N mention only MO chemistry. They may have some nickel and cobalt added but I don't know.

The challenge as I see it is measuring the open circuit voltage and more to the point converting it to a true SoC. The conversion is different for each chemistry. However the conversion seems to be the same for both the LEV50 and the LEV50N so I don't think it is impossible. Can you find more information on the failed attempt?

Cheers
David

 

[MickeyS70]

Can you find more information on the failed attempt?

Hi David
Took me a while to find it: nuggetgalore used 60Ah batteries with the original BMU, ended up taking them out again:
https://forums.aeva.asn.au/viewtopic.php?t=5515&start=500

Mickey

 

[CZeroOwner]

Hi David
Took me a while to find it: nuggetgalore used 60Ah batteries with the original BMU, ended up taking them out again:
https://forums.aeva.asn.au/viewtopic.php?t=5515&start=500
Mickey

This is great information. Thanks for finding it. I've noticed that new NMC cells have a max voltage of 4.3 volts. If the nominal capacity is at 4.3 volts then our capacity will be lower when the BMU in our car only charges the battery to 4.1 volts. But then charging to 4.3 volts will obviously shorten the life of the new battery.

On the other hand, I don't think we should not give up hope yet.

 

[riburada]

The 60Ah cells were priced at $15 each at the time according to piev, but the shipping from China was $20 each. If you order some cells then i would recommend to add a few extra for testing and spares.

Are these 60Ah cells worth trying?
I'm looking possibilities to replace a whole battery pack (all 88 cells). The battery prices have really gone down these days and worth trying with minimal hassle