Another ideea for upgrade battery

[Negue]

Hello guys
I try to find cells from other EV's that have nearby size of LEV50 cells ( i-miev ) 171x111x44 to can swap of them more easily without modify BMS&more stuff. To buy new appropriate one's still is expensive, (3.7v 80-100ah nearby size) over 200€/kw and the is cheap is to use second hand form other models that confirm it's genuine good quality.

Untill now , Leaf , Zoe , Soul, I.D(3-4-5, all) is not suitable for that.

 

[MickeyS70]

Hello guys
I try to find cells from other EV's that have nearby size of LEV50 cells ( i-miev ) 171x111x44 to can swap of them more easily without modify BMS&more stuff. To buy new appropriate one's still is expensive, (3.7v 80-100ah nearby size) over 200€/kw and the is cheap is to use second hand form other models that confirm it's genuine good quality.

Untill now , Leaf , Zoe , Soul, I.D(3-4-5, all) is not suitable for that.

Unfortunately there isn’t anything out there that you could re-purpose from another EV and a BMU modification of some sort is required for any chemistry other than LEV50x.

 

[Negue]

That means is not only need software modification in BMU but need other BMU to ? Strange :/

Ok, let say I find some cell format compatible with it. It's hard and to expensive to use custom / generic BMU?

 

[Negue]

A E63B from Hyundai/Kia had 3p and can be separated to become 1p and have space calculated nearly for 88cells 60ah 2.7-4.2v better then 50ah LEV50. Why is needed a new BMS?
Discharge 70a continue 237A peak
90a charge, say batemo.

https://www.batemo.com/products/batemo-cell-explorer/lg-chem-e63b/

If I use original BMS /soft what can happand negative?

My goul is to change all cells but with original setup and only cables adapted.

Is not much ~17-18kwh but 80% more then actual SoH 66 and cost ~1200€

 

[MickeyS70]

A E63B from Hyundai/Kia had 3p and can be separated to become 1p and have space calculated nearly for 88cells 60ah 2.7-4.2v better then 50ah LEV50. Why is needed a new BMS?
Discharge 70a continue 237A peak
90a charge, say batemo.

https://www.batemo.com/products/batemo-cell-explorer/lg-chem-e63b/

If I use original BMS /soft what can happand negative?

My goul is to change all cells but with original setup and only cables adapted.

Is not much ~17-18kwh but 80% more then actual SoH 66 and cost ~1200€

Yes, you can use the original BMS, however from experience it will not recognise the increased capacity. To change this you would need to do SW CAN ‘hack’ as discussed on this forum.

Also you need to figure out a way how to measure cell temperature on your E63; I think @Frud has some ideas.

 

[Negue]

In ok with thous limited capacity untill I will understand and do SW Can Hack and considering that Second Hand B63E have some degradation.
How the SoC will behave in this configuration ?
Will use upper SoC from 4.2v untill count 16.5kwh?

 

[MickeyS70]

In ok with thous limited capacity untill I will understand and do SW Can Hack and considering that Second Hand B63E have some degradation.
How the SoC will behave in this configuration ?
Will use upper SoC from 4.2v untill count 16.5kwh?

The car will charge until the first cell reaches 4.1V regardless of battery chemistry, the problem is that the BMU is ‘hardcoded’ on LEV50x charge curves, David (OBDZero) has explained this in detail in the discussion below

https://www.goingelectric.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=82690&start=60

Follow the discussion above to see how the native BMU dealt with NMC95 cells, expect worse with E63s..

 

[Negue]

Indeed .I will read all pages again later.
What I find on AliExpress it was Leadess Brand they say it is Model Number Samsung 94ah (347w) at best price 56€ (112€/kwh) ..88 at least 4600€, and is to much over the budget, indeed 30kwh+

The E63E what seller writed in add that sell 74kwh pach with 4700€ 63€/kwh and can rest of it to upgrade my Leaf.

I hope to see some info for my project.

 

[michael8554]

"The car will charge until the first cell reaches 4.1V regardless of battery chemistry,"

I was under the impression that extended slow charging would allow the lower voltage cells to Balance up to whatever voltage they have degraded to ?

 

[MickeyS70]

"The car will charge until the first cell reaches 4.1V regardless of battery chemistry,"

I was under the impression that extended slow charging would allow the lower voltage cells to Balance up to whatever voltage they have degraded to ?

Unfortunately not, you can’t just charge individual cells. Balancing works the opposite, it discharges higher voltage cells trough (tiny) resistors on the CMU board.

 

[Negue]

I read recomanded link and was lot of info.
Now I learn that at Leaf 24kwh version , at 3.5V mean ~10% SoC and 3V ~4%Soc. Safe is to discharge to 3.5 V and from there drive to a charger nearby and probably a general rule.
One time with Leaf I drove untill 3V with the degraded one at stop and cat off ( probably lower when accelerated but didn't pay attention in app all time)

I find DL24P-180W with 50€ to test the cells. Is the cheapest at 20A discharge that I can find.

 

[tomwoodruff]

Great site for enthusiasts, but not helpful to an owner like me who isn't likely to tear into these systems. What I need is a shop within range who can do the upgrade work.
Most trouble-free car I have owned: 2012 with 70k, range dropping fast.

 

[MickeyS70]

Great site for enthusiasts, but not helpful to an owner like me who isn't likely to tear into these systems. What I need is a shop within range who can do the upgrade work.
Most trouble-free car I have owned: 2012 with 70k, range dropping fast.

Up until now owners realistically only had two options to get their range restored (original Mitsu pack or OZ DIY upgrade). Not sure where you’re based but with the information provided here you could approach an EV specialist nearby and present your case if you want to be proactive..

 

[Negue]

I had view lot of info but Im not sure if LEV50 is calculate his 50Ah at 1C or 0.2C.
Someone can help with corect info ?

 

[MickeyS70]

I had view lot of info but Im not sure if LEV50 is calculate his 50Ah at 1C or 0.2C.
Someone can help with corect info

I gather 1C, for more info see below
https://www.diyelectriccar.com/threads/lev50-battery-specs.199525/

 

[Negue]

"The cells exhibit excellent performances namely, the high rate discharge capability at 6 C rate at 25 °C is 96% based on 0.2 C rate"

That's why I ask.

 

[MickeyS70]

See data sheet below

 

[Negue]

Indeed, I never read top left but I read this sheet 20+ times :/
Thank you again

 

[kiev]

i think the translation of that strange statement means that the LEV50N capacity when measured at 6C (300A for 10 minutes) discharge is 96% of that when discharged at 0.2C (designated as 100%). This is shown on the discharge graph from the technical report where the LEV50 6C discharge is also shown.

 

[tomwoodruff]

Up until now owners realistically only had two options to get their range restored (original Mitsu pack or OZ DIY upgrade). Not sure where you’re based but with the information provided here you could approach an EV specialist nearby and present your case if you want to be proactive..

Thanks, Mickey. I'm in Portland, Maine.