Fiat 500e and Consumer Reports

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Vike

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 10, 2012
Messages
402
Location
Albuquerque, New Mexico
A foolish consistency may be the hobgoblin of small minds, but after the i-MiEV hatchet job, CR's review of Fiat's 500e compliance car:

http://news.consumerreports.org/car...500e-is-an-electric-car-with-an-attitude.html

. . . seems disproportionately positive for a car with substantially less rear seat and trunk space, incrementally more range, lower energy efficiency, very limited availability, and a much higher purchase price. CR also felt obliged to share with us such in-depth technical analysis as:
. . . it was clear that Chrysler engineers didn't just phone this one in; they actually sweated the details and came up with an EV that's fun and appealing.
Such gushing only makes it that much more obvious that CR just had it in for our little Mitsu :evil:
 
Fiat sized the 500e for the US market from the start. A 24kWh Battery and 6.6kW charger will cover many ills, and the Cinquecento’s sporting pretentions add some fun factor in an EV. The 500e needs more scrutiny (and a price), but drivers like what they like, and the 500e seems to have the emotional “it”.
 
Kei Jidosha said:
Fiat sized the 500e for the US market from the start. A 24kWh Battery and 6.6kW charger will cover many ills, and the Cinquecento’s sporting pretentions add some fun factor in an EV. The 500e needs more scrutiny (and a price), but drivers like what they like, and the 500e seems to have the emotional “it”.

Noticed the car only has a D mode, I wonder how the regen is in this car.
 
I do not know about the 500e but on the czero /ion there is only a D. It seems to me that the D is more or less the B on the iMiev. Basically one learns to use the position of the pedal to control how much regen is applied, if further regen is needed a gentle pressure on the brake will clearly up the regen, only further pressing will use the actual brakes.

I can imagine that some can find it difficult to get used to as the gaz pedal really has two functions, so With the brake pedal. Compared to biking, it is a bit similar to riding these "softride" bikes. Some people love it other absolutely hate it. But in fact the bikes are very efficient, one just has to accept that the saddle is hovering up and down and acts as a guide rather than a real support to sit on...

The only thing I am missing is a free wheeling function. Sometimes I flick into N for some time, then back into D, but I am afraid I might be damaging something by doing that?
 
I do regret that this thread even got started - it wasn't my intention. As far as I'm concerned, the Fiat 500e is a fraud, a limited-production hack planned for delivery in exactly (and only) sufficient numbers to comply with California regs. Most Americans will never have the opportunity to buy one, which seems to me the main point. I wouldn't waste the effort to discuss a project from a manufacturer so clearly uninterested in selling EVs.
 
Dont be sorry Vike. You helped us trap a fake you did something good.

I know, there have been conversions. Compare the BMW Mini e. EVTV.com did a conversion of the Mini Cooper Clubman and it was better than the BMW in almost every aspect. Most important BMW have made a fool out of themselves not including a J1772 charge port but the conversion has.

I never could buy the Mini e in germany but we were promissed the I 3 - meaning "ask again in three years". That had been 3 years ago but today it is still ask again in 3 years and they hope somebody will have decided by then whether to build in an international J1772 charge port or a german Mennekes.

The Fiat 500 electric I have seen actually was a

http://www.eurozev.org/English.htm

and it came with a blue CEE 230V/16A plug. You can plug it in on both sides of the pond with L2 charging at least. I guess poor Fiat was angry at those many conversions.

Conversions with AC motor usually do have regen and they can programme it every way they like - but not with a DC forklift motor.
 
Vike - I think all EVs are worthy of discussion. Yes, I agree its B.S. that these cars are only for compliance but this is the state of affairs we are in. I think it's great that we are even at this point in the birth of EVs for the masses. Even the last time EVs got this close, there weren't nearly as many manufacturers stepping up and building something. Now all of the manufacturers got something going on in this brave new frontier of automotive transportation.

I feel that CR has unfairly applied a standard to EVs. They didn't bark once about that backseat in the 500e when the I-MiEV has a fully functioning backseat for grownup people and the poor I-MiEV was panned for lack of legroom. I no longer will quote anything from CR as I see they don't have a set standard for acceptable specifications on a vehicle. They love a car that few will ever drive and pan a great car that is available on showroom floors today.
 
MLucas said:
I no longer will quote anything from CR as I see they don't have a set standard for acceptable specifications on a vehicle.
I believe Consumer Reports targets their reviews to the Wal*Mart crowd. If the car is too different or has any compromises, they will pan it... just like if you asked the stereotypical Wal*Mart shopper.

We are not stereotypical car buyers, just like the test drivers for the major car magazines aren't. Test drivers want excess in all dynamics (braking, handling, acceleration) and will accept a compromise for passenger room, ride quality, and NVH (noise, vibration, harshness). We make compromises in dynamics for increased range. We don't have a luxury-car ride or NVH levels for the trade-off of never having to fill up our car.

I was approached for the first time yesterday by a particularly-energetic woman asking about my car. "It's so cute! How much is it?" After answering her questions, I mentioned it was all-electric, no gas. She responded, "That makes it even better!" I was honestly surprised by her responses, because I believe the majority of US car buyers aren't ready to accept anything "different". Maybe (hopefully) I'm wrong.
 
I guess as a general phenomenon I'm just aggravated with press coverage of compliance cars that don't point out they aren't really available outside of a handful of CA-compliance states. Mitsubishi and Nissan are really selling cars nationwide, and I think Ford's headed in the same direction with their Focus Electric (though at the price they're charging to add an EV drive train to a barely modified economy car, it's not exactly what I would consider an exercise in EV boosterism). But the top management of companies like Toyota, Honda, and Fiat obviously couldn't care less about electrics. Being forced to deliver them, they're milking the PR benefits and "green cred" for all they're worth, but don't let their happy-talk web pages fool you - actions speak louder than words. I'm very annoyed when the automotive press treat these non-products more seriously than the car companies themselves do.

My problem with compliance cars like Fiat's 500e is twofold. First, of course, is that most Americans cannot buy them - because their only purpose is to allow their manufacturers access to the lucrative California market (and incidentally those states that clone CA standards), those manufacturers who don't believe in the EV market segment have no interest in making them more widely available. Second, cars built just to push their makers over CA's arbitrary "EV sales volume" goal line will be sold in such low numbers that the manufacturers hardly care about the unit manufacturing costs of those paltry few units. Since they only need to sell the mandated minimum, that's all they plan to do. Couple that with the high net worth EV enthusiast crowd in CA, and what we see are either high prices (like the somewhat ridiculous RAV4-EV) or hand-built cars sold or leased at a loss (like Honda's Fit EV). The upshot of this is that these companies aren't doing the hard work of figuring out how to get costs down by sharper engineering to appeal to the widest possible audience.

Nissan deserves huge credit for moving a lot of Leafs and making big bets (even with subsidies) on manufacturing facilities to build them in the U.S., and I really respect Mitsubishi's effort to deliver EVs to the U.S. at a price customers here would be willing to pay. I may prefer the tradeoffs Mitsubishi chose (I'd rather have a lower-priced car with better thermal and power management and spartan amenities than a more expensive one with a guess-o-meter, dicey thermal management, and more impressive accommodations), while most EV buyers apparently prefer Nissan's choices, but the fact is that both worked very hard to design a car they could afford to build and sell in relatively high volumes. Those efforts are worthy of respect, and automotive reviewers who fawn over cars less carefully engineered by indifferent makers with no ambitions beyond selling their "real" cars in California do a great disservice to Nissan, Mitsubishi, and the readers of those reviews.
 
Carver001 said:
Now this is the most cute electric car ever. Because of its tiny body style and other features making it unique and different from others. Fiat 500 is already a very famous drive and when people hear about its hybrid technological change then I think they will definitely buy it.
Unless they live in California, no they won't, because Fiat won't sell them. Have you read the other posts in this topic? If so, you've rather missed the point of the whole exchange. No matter how attractive the Fiat 500e and Honda FitEV may be, they cost too much to manufacture and their makers have no interest in making the investments to fix that. The cars might well be delivered in very small numbers, but these aren't real products, and most Americans will never be able to buy (or in Honda's case, lease) them. Cuteness is altogether beside the point.
 
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