Upgrading the heating system to bioethanol or Diesel fuel

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pwd,
Congratulations on completion of your project! Thanks for sharing the pictures. It looks like the location for the heater you chose is pretty good. Did you install the hoses between original water pump and the PTC heater? It looks like so. Do you have picture of the custom made bracket alone? Did you also include the muffler and where did you install it?
Thanks, Stan
 
The heater is in front (inline) of the existing water pump. I'm waiting on a 135degree elbow that will go from the heater to the waterpump. I also think its possible to have the heater after the water pump since the hose from the waterpump to the electric heater is possible to split.
I had to move the waterpump a litle, but that was easy since its possible to use the bolt that hold the AC line and just make a litle "spacer" and use a washer on the other bolt. I havent tried to connect the hose from watertank to heater since i'm missing the elbow, but i think if i move the original hose a litle i could use that to connect to the heater, so i maybe only need one 135degree elbow to connect the heater :)
I havent connected the muffler yet, but the alu exhaust hose will be going out under the car, as the same way the original deisel heater from Mitsubihi dealer does, its enough room for it so it will be ok (the last picture). I have the measurement on the bracketbut, i only need to get a good picture of it. I think i also want a litle support brace from the bolt that hold the heater and the ground cable over the heater to hold it in place, but i dont realy think i need it since the bracket is in 3mm stainless steel and is realy hard to bend, but just to be safe and its easy.

The reason that i removed the upper right corner of the original bracket is to get enough room for the existing hose from water pump to electrix heater.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/87802055/2014-10-19%2017.17.31.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/87802055/2014-10-19%2017.17.42.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/87802055/2014-10-19%2017.17.56.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/87802055/2014-10-19%2017.18.07.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/87802055/2014-10-19%2011.31.56.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/87802055/2014-10-19_17-31-36.jpg
 
Today i got it in place, i see i need a 180 degree 19mm hose, but its ok with a 90 degree (4) but it will be better place with a 180 degree bend so i can cut the original (5) a litle more and get better space between the hose and the stearing, its not any problem now, but it will look better with a 180 degree bend there (3). Nr 2 is a 135 degree hose and 1 and 3 is only a litle hose so the legs on the 135 degree bend is a litle longer so its easyer to attach.

To drain the coolant, remove return hose from reservoir and but it in a 1/2L bottle, attach a hose to the reservoir and blow (DONT remove the cap), fill 2 bottles and then hose and waterpump is empty.

To fill it, i did find out that if i did try to use the waterpump to fill it its not working, there must be some sensor some place so the waterpump dont starts after, you need to remove the power and let the error/sensor reset (remember to find the radio code first). I did find out that its easy to fill it this way
Add coolant to Full in reservoir, place cap in place. place the return hose in a bottle, place another hose in reservoir and blow, blow until the left side in the reservoir is nearly empty. Remove cap and add more coolant (if the bottle is full use that). Attach cap and blow again (remember to not blow so much that there is getting air in the hose to the heater/waterpump). I did this maybe 10-15 times and then most of the air from the system is gone and the pump will start.

DONT worry if the pump dont start, you then need to blow more to get the air out of the system and remember to remove negative from battery for 1 hour.

The next 2-3 days you will hear that there is air in the system, but it gets ok after some time.

dieselvarmer.jpg



This is the 135 degree hose connected to the original waterpump, but i did find out that i needed longer legs on the bend.

2014-10-26%2011.49.55.jpg
 
Next project is to find a tank and move the fuel pump, but its working :)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/87802055/20141115_124656.mp4
 
Congratulations on your install , Now for the easy part -

Not only do you enjoy a warm winter driving experience,
You also extended your winter driving range 30-40%


Thanks for sharing pics & Video
 
one thing, when using it let the warm/cold be in neutral position so the car waterpump dont start, if the car waterpump and the waterpump in the heater starts it looks like it is possible that air is mixed in the water in the water tank since its so small and there is so much flow in the water. But since the air goes thru the heater core when the position is in neutral its not a problem. Does someone know how/when air is blowing down to the battery?
 
The airflow in the neutral position depends on which color the dial was in last. For example, if you click into the blue zone then back to neutral, the air will flow through the AC evaporator, but if you click it to red and back to neutral, the air will flow through the heater core.

To push air into the battery, you need to remove a servo in the left-hand side footwell and flip the lever underneath it. The linked picture shows this servo. For perspective, the USB port is on the bottom right of the picture. This is the driver's side footwell on U.S. 2012.

https://db.tt/psMYBcDC
 
Yes, i know about the servo, but how is it working? Is there some temperature controller that open/close it or is it allways open when the heat is on?
 
PV1 said:
I think it only opens when charging below 5 degrees Fahrenheit or when cooling the battery while quick charging.

ok, so the heater will turn on when charging at low temp to heat the battery? Yes, i know it cool the battery on quick charging since the A/C turns on. But wouldnt it be a ide to blow hot air to the battery when driving?
 
It would seem that just driving will warm up the pack quite nicely, so heating while driving doesn't seem necessary. I may have to revise this opinion when the winter gets serious, but that doesn't happen until January most likely.
 
Finding a tank with sensor?
I'm looking to find a litle tank 1-2gal that also have the sensor for low fuel. Cant find any tank with sensor, does anyone have any ide where i could look for that?
 
I had the opportunity to go for a long trip in our Miev in cold weather conditions and made good use if the diesel heater
The trip started out at - 8C ( 17 F ) with freezing rain conditions up in the mountains.
&
Ended at 0 C ( 32 F ) in the suburbs with cloudy conditions.

Speed varied from bumper to bumper to 85 kmph ( 53 mph )
Due to rush hours & freezing rain
Average speed was approx 35 kph ( 20 mph )

This gave me a real world winter range testing using the Diesel heater.
Traveled 87 km ( 54 miles )
Plus 9 left ( 5.5 miles ) on the RR meter
Total 96 km ( 59.5 miles)

I have a short video for those interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTn29gjpd6w

Please excuse my amateur video skills.
 
Nice video sandy. Its always nice to see a video of something rather then read it in a message.
That being said,
On the same note I had a chance to do an extended trip today using the DH. I started at my place and drove to mirabel airport. An elevation change of about +300 feet. It was -4 deg C on the way up with clear dry roads most of the time.
13 km of 50 km/hour streets and then another 40 km of highway, the 13 to 640 to 15. I was in hurry So i was running 85-100 km/hour on the highway.
I don't have exact numbers but i used about 55% of the battery. That would be a range of 96km total. Pretty much inline with your range for a similar trip.

This is not too far off summer ranges. Not too shabby.

Don.....
 
From another posting (My Christmas Day DCQC Trip)

jsantala said:
I regularly take a 300km (186mi) day trip. It takes me a little over 6 hours, if there are no issues. Going from home I can get away with four CHAdeMO quick charges, since I can get to a station 80km (50mi) away with full charge from home L2. The rest are 50-60km (31-47mi) apart). Going back the other way I need to make five stops, because the first stop is closer and so it doesn't help that I can start with a full charge.

So far I've just charged to 80% all stops, but I believe most if not all stations around here will continue from 80% if you just restart the charge. Currently all the stations are free to use, but most will soon be 0.1-0.2 euro cents per minute. A new station will also soon open which allows me to take a slightly shorter 280km (174mi) route and only charge four times both ways. I should be able to make the trip in less than six hours after that.

I have a ethanol heater to warm the car. Otherwise it would be impossible to make the trip during our winter time here in north Europe.

I have a few questions about fast charging and using the ethanol/diesel heater

If you were using the heater prior to fast charging - At what outside temperatures did you fast charge and how long did it take to get to 80%?
Also
I understand the fast charging may require to cool the battery and that the ac might engage to blow cool air into the battery compartment.
Now this probably would not be the case in cold weather - Or would it ?

I have noticed that with the key in the full on position the heater seems to be disabled & the fan does not operate while fast charging.
I could not extract the heat while fast charging, even if I had the ethanol/diesel heater operating.

My big concern is....
This could create a conflict if you are running the ethanol/diesel heating and the battery management wants to cool the battery & possibly cause damage.
Do you turn your ethanol heater off when you fast charge?
 
The design of the HVAC system in the I-MiEV either directs air through the heater core or through the AC coil. I don't believe air can pass through both at the same time. I remember when I first got my EVSEUpgrade I was trying to run both heat and AC to burn off my 3rd bar so that the car would do a calibration charge, and as soon as I turned the temperature knob into the blue section, all heat left the vents and immediately got unheated air. But since it was only about 20 F outside, the AC compressor didn't want to kick on.

When I quick charged my car (only the one time) with ambient air at 60 F, the fan in the HVAC system immediately came on, blowing air into the pack (don't recall hearing the pack fan running). My AC compressor never kicked on, just the fan. At 67%, it shut off, and for a brief time I had manual control of the system with the key off, then it shut off altogether. I never turned the key even to Accessory as I didn't want to risk interrupting the quick charge.

To answer your question, I don't see a difference if the heater coolant is hot and the car wanting to cool the battery. It wouldn't differ much from having the electric heat on full prior to charging. It's possible that with the pack fan the car could mix hot and cold air since it's drawing air through instead of pushing it, but when READY, I haven't seen the system mix air from the heater core and the AC coil.
 
sandange said:
If you were using the heater prior to fast charging - At what outside temperatures did you fast charge and how long did it take to get to 80%?

I understand the fast charging may require to cool the battery and that the ac might engage to blow cool air into the battery compartment. Now this probably would not be the case in cold weather - Or would it ?

I have noticed that with the key in the full on position the heater seems to be disabled & the fan does not operate while fast charging. I could not extract the heat while fast charging, even if I had the ethanol/diesel heater operating.

This could create a conflict if you are running the ethanol/diesel heating and the battery management wants to cool the battery & possibly cause damage. Do you turn your ethanol heater off when you fast charge?

I haven't yet done a trip in properly cold, so I don't have experience on how the freezing temperature would affect QC times. The ethanol heater became a must even before we started hitting temperatures below freezing. I'm assuming it will be horribly slow if the battery is below freezing. A quick test at about -10˚C showed even L2 charging only using 2 kW, so I'm assuming it can be really, really slow.

I have noticed that if it's cold it may not start blowing cold AC air into the pack. Not right away at least. I think it starts when the cells go beyond room temperature, but I haven't kept a really good eye on that. I think I should do that the next time.

It is true, that you can't extract the heat from the ethanol heater while doing QC. The one I'm using has it's own water pump, so it just keeps the liquid hot and cuts off if the high cutoff temperature is reached. It'll restart once the liquid cools down to about 50˚C. It would really nice to be able to keep the heat coming in while QC, but alas it is not possible on this vehicle.

I'm assuming that once the AC kicks in during QC it will do the same thing which happens if you turn the temperature dial into cooling, which prevents the air from going through the heat exchanger and only uses the cooling bits. Frankly, the AC pack cooling could be a little less aggressive during the winter. I wouldn't mind if it heated the pack up a little more, just to keep it nice and warm for a little longer.

I have kept the heater turned off when I've stopped for a charge, but I just blew a glow plug on it and I'm thinking maybe it's because I was turning it on and off too much, so I think from now on I'll try to avoid that and keep it going instead. It doesn't use much fuel anyway once you've stopped and the heat exchanger isn't exchanging any heat.
 
Range Testing with Diesel Heater in Extreme Cold

Real world extreme cold weather range test while using the diesel heater.

There is definitely a major improvement to the passenger comfort level. I may add, also for safety as well, for having fog/ice free windows.

The purpose of this test is to determine if there is
a significant range advantage by adding a diesel heater.

Recount
Car was parked outside overnight , charged L2 for 6 hrs prior to departure and pre-heated two 1/2 hour sessions before leaving home.,

There is a 900 ft drop in elevation on this trip. I did not have the time to do a full charge and record a round trip.
I would estimate range adjustment of about approximately 8% on a round trip

Departure Temperature 5:15 am. 8 Jan 2015 Ste-Anne-des-Lacs, QC, Canada.

Videos - for those interested
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXTmCLOzf7I

My Conclusion
This test shows
12 Bars were used to go 67 km ( 41.5 miles )
Assuming all bars are equal
5.6 km ( 3.5 miles ) per bar.
16 bars would = 90 km ( 56.Miles )

Adjusted Maximum Range
8 % adjustment for round trip with 900 ft elevation climb for return trip.

16 Bars = 83km ( 51.5 miles )


A definite gain in range & comfort for these conditions
 
Sandange, thank you for sharing your deep cold test with your diesel heated iMiEV. Another proof that the mod is beneficial.
I wonder, what was your average speed? From your video it looks like 33.5 km/h, is that right?
What range would you get with the electric heater instead of the diesel one?

Thanks, Stan
 
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