JoeS
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Re: Range and Charging Observations and Questions

Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:36 am

Condolences to all in the rest of the country with this brutal weather. About all we had here was a 4.4 shaker overnight.

BDG777 a few observations and suggestions.

1. Mitsubishi EVSE: going from 8A to 12A is a 50% increase in power supplied to the car. You will have absolutely no problem fully charging overnight. What you do is plug in the EVSE, push the button on the EVSE to change it to 12A, then plug the car in (you can't change from 8A to 12A after you've plugged the car in).
2. Typical charge rate at 120vac 8A is four bars for five hours of charging. Typical charge rate at 120vac 12A is six bars for five hours of charging. Depending on the weather and how you drive, in warm weather and no HVAC, one bar normally equates to between four to five miles of driving. Figure half that for your present serious winter conditions.
3. REMOTE at home: I would not hesitate to use it in the morning before leaving for work. Even if you lose a bar or two, why not start off being comfortable? Simply leave the seat heat switch ON for the entire winter.
4. REMOTE at work: you have an L2 Blink in your parking lot. After work, why not simply pull up to it, plug the car in, and using the REMOTE heat or defrost your car for 5-10 minutes before taking off for home? You will lose negligible charge, if any.
5. Heater/defrost settings - there's a good writeup somewhere on this forum for optimizing these settings. Note your RR display: it not only drops when you turn on the heater, but it also drops in response to the fan speed setting. To maximize range I would turn on the heater sparingly, otherwise leaving it off completely.
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

FrostyCanada
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Location: The Laurentians, a skip away from Montreal, Quebec, Canada

Re: Range and Charging Observations and Questions

Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:02 am

Hello Bradley, welcome to the forum.

I can't add much to the discussion, but I agree with the others asking you to slow dowm (this makes a big differece).

Concernign the 120V EVSE ... i observed .7 KWH @ 8 amps and maybe a 1 KWH @ 12 amps (approx + depending on battery temp).

Regards,
Brian
2016 i-MiEV
with navigation package, in pearl white.

bradleydavidgood777
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:55 am
Location: Media, PA

Re: Range and Charging Observations and Questions

Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:46 am

Thanks Don,

I charge using a 10 gauge extension cord to the Mitsu stock charger unit and it is marked 8 and 12 amps. It has a button and I've read in the manual about it and I think it says you can switch it to 12 by pressing the button. I have tried pressing it and it stays on 8A. I guess this charger is called an EVSE and yes, I am on the extension cord to it when I pre-heat. But from a previous poster I got the impression that the car could not pull enough power from the AC to do the preheat and would pull the rest from the car main pack. You are saying that is not true. I was hoping that it would only use the AC and not the main battery.

There are no other good routes other than 95. All of them would probably add an hour to my commute and literally about 100 traffic lights. All packed neighborhoods getting close to the city. Good idea though. I do like the back roads and take them when I can on other trips.

So anyway, still looking for someone who has the same kind of EVSE as me and help with that button issue.
2017 I-Miev

JoeS
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Re: Range and Charging Observations and Questions

Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:07 pm

JoeS wrote:1. Mitsubishi EVSE: going from 8A to 12A is a 50% increase in power supplied to the car. You will have absolutely no problem fully charging overnight. What you do is plug in the EVSE, push the button on the EVSE to change it to 12A, then plug the car in (you can't change from 8A to 12A after you've plugged the car in)...
bradleydavidgood777 wrote:...I charge using a 10 gauge extension cord to the Mitsu stock charger unit and it is marked 8 and 12 amps. It has a button and I've read in the manual about it and I think it says you can switch it to 12 by pressing the button. I have tried pressing it and it stays on 8A.... still looking for someone who has the same kind of EVSE as me and help with that button issue.
Once again:
a) Plug the Mitsu EVSE into your extensions cord
b) Push the button that says "12A"
c) Plug the J1772 connector into the car
Noting again, you can't change from 8A to 12A after you've plugged the car in.

On your Interstate driving, try finding a slow truck and follow it - this provides you with two advantages:

1. Less wind resistance (significant increase in your range)
2. A visual barrier to anyone coming up behind you
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

bradleydavidgood777
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:55 am
Location: Media, PA

Re: Range and Charging Observations and Questions

Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:59 pm

I am now on 12A!!!!! I am so grateful and happy thank you so much!

The snow ended and I dug out the car - 8AM appointment at the dealer for the airbag recall and they said they will definitely be there! and are open now! Everything else is closed I think. Bitter cold, strong gusts, drifting. Only about 7 inches of snow tho so not bad in that way.

Anyway, while I was out there I grabbed the manual and read it. Just says press the button, nothing about doing that before plugging into the car...I don't know how you guys knew that then. I tried pressing it and nothing, then came back in and read the posts and got everything back on and went out again and did it the right way and success!

I don't understand how it could be 50% more since 8 to 12 is about 33%. Brian's post makes more sense to me where he says he observed .7 KWH at 8A and 1KWH at 12A. That is more like 33%.

Anyway, I am sure that is all I need to get into the comfort range and have no issues at all getting back to work from home and staying quite warm. And now I can go 80mph too! Just kidding! But lots are doing 90 on that stretch so its hard to go slow because they get quite irritated and ride up right to your bumper. And if there is a sudden stop, which happens often, I don't want a large car or truck up the rear of my small tin can car.

I will slow down though like I said, it's part of changes in my life anyway, and can give me more heat too.

I hear you about keeping the seat warmer on, and maybe I will, but there is something about it that I just don't like, maybe its the direct heat, or maybe it is EMFs, I just have ended up turning it off often enough that I haven't turned it on in a long time.

Also the slow truck is a great idea. I have noticed the large difference in drag when behind one.

After work, the idea of pulling back into the spot and charging....a couple of reasons I will probably not do this. I typically leave around 420 or 430 and get to my car around 445. The traffic backs up in several spots, getting on the highway is one, about 3-4 miles down 95 is another and then later in the drive. That 10 minutes may add 20 minutes to my drive, and I'm fine with the cold start and would rather trade that for the time loss. The other reason is that I don't like the idea of being in the car while it is plugged into all that juice. Sounds like major EMFs going on. Yea probably also while driving but I think more so while plugged in and sitting right over the main battery packs.

I have noticed that the RR indicator does drop in response to the temp and also the fan, and modulate both of them down about 1/3 to 1/2 if necessary. What does RR stand for? Range Remaining?

With the 12A setting now I will be using the remote to pre-defrost - I am sure that I will have no problem getting there with plenty of range left in case of a backup or detour.

So basically you have all made me extremely happy and I feel that all of my problems and range anxiety are no problem at all.

Again, I love everything else about this car so am very happy to be driving it.

And so grateful for this forum! Thank you all!!!!
2017 I-Miev

bradleydavidgood777
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:55 am
Location: Media, PA

Re: Range and Charging Observations and Questions

Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:03 pm

Oh, and JoeS, sorry I missed your clear instructions the first time you posted them. I don't know how I did because I thought I have been reading everything carefully, but you know us humans, sometimes we make mistakes. Thanks for saying it again!!!
2017 I-Miev

Don
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Re: Range and Charging Observations and Questions

Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:27 pm

50% of 8 is 4 - Adding that 4 to your 8 is 12, so you're now charging 50% faster on 12 than you were on 8

I must have misread your post - It sounded like you were preheating not plugged in. When you were using 8 amps, you were using a bit of battery power and you did notice that your range went down after the preheat. Now that you're on 12 amps, it will preheat much faster and probably not use any of your battery power

Yes, your 8/12 Panasonic box is the EVSE - Electric Vehicle Service Equipment. The 'charger' is built into the car and it can charge using about 3300 watts. On 120 volts at 12 amps, you're not using half of that

Sounds like all your problems are solved!

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE, White
2017 Chevy Volt Premier
2014 Ford Transit Connect XLT SWB wagon, 14,000 miles
1979 Honda CBX six into six

JoeS
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Re: Range and Charging Observations and Questions

Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:39 pm

BDG777, glad it's finally working for you.
I have to confess - I called my buddy in New Orleans who had had a 2016 i-MiEV (totalled a few weeks ago) and I asked him how to change the current setting. Since it defaults to 8A, you have to push that button every time you plug it into 120vac.

Around here there's an expression for slow drivers "Road Boulder". Consensus is that as long as you stay in the right lane it is not only legal but also acceptable. A few years ago I was rammed from behind while in the right lane doing 60mph in my Gen1 Honda Insight by a drunk driver going way over the 70mph speed limit on Interstate 5 by Bakersfield. :shock: That's why I now believe in following big trucks if I'm driving under the speed limit. In California, trucks are supposed to be limited to 55mph.

Yes, RR = Range Remaining. We do not refer to it as GOM (Guess-O-Meter) - that was coined by Leaf drivers for their seemingly-inconsistent display. Ours has a very predictable algorithm: it's based on the consumption of the preceding 15 miles; in effect, a 15-mile moving average.
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

Phximiev
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Location: Phoenix

Re: Range and Charging Observations and Questions

Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:26 pm

Check your manual also, pages 1-5 and 3-62, where the remaining range is referred to as the Cruising Range.
2012 iMIEV ES
2014 Chevy Volt

bradleydavidgood777
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:55 am
Location: Media, PA

Re: Range and Charging Observations and Questions

Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:44 am

Don - thanks for the info, I now understand about the 50% thing. and about the EVSE and charger.

JoeS - thanks for the info and the RR explanation. And great to know it is based upon the past 15 miles.

Phxmiev - thanks - yes I saw that reference to cruising range.

Just got back from the dealer airbag recall, all done, no issues, good experience. Very small dealership, which i guess can have benefits.

So last night I charged 12A. I don't know what I started with but I thought I was around 3/4 at the start yesterday afternoon when I plugged it in and got the 12A working. When I got in this morning, I only saw 55 miles showing. Which is what I typically see after charging at work with level 2.

This is different than when I would charge 8A - usually I would see 64 or 63 or 60. But maybe not always. Of course as soon as I start driving and turn stuff on it drops. I am just talking about what it reads when first started and nothing on.

Makes me wonder if the 8A can go higher. I have also seen 80 miles show briefly after 8A charging.

I understand that DC fast charging only does 80%, and I read that if you plug it back in you can top it off.

Just wondering if 12A stops short of the top for the same reasons and 8A goes longer.

Just making observations here and posting them.

The dealer is only about 6 miles away, 35-45mph with lights, 10-12 minute drive. I pre-heated and blasted the heat temp and fan because I could. I stopped at the grocery store directly on the way home and blasted the heat again on the way home.

I noticed that I was showing in the mid 20s miles RR near home, and if I turned things down it went to 30. The bars were 2 bars above half though, so I'm sure those low readings were based upon the past high heat consumption as Don mentioned the 15 miles thing.

All is good here. Thanks
2017 I-Miev

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