JoeS
Site Moderator
Posts: 3892
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:47 am
Location: Silicon Valley, California

Re: Canion Battery Readings

Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:23 am

Took a drive in Mitti (new used i-MiEV) into town this evening and fired up CaniOn and left it on the whole time even though I parked the car and did some errands. It either never disconnected or reconnected automatically as v.124 CaniOn never dropped out. :D Here's the recorded and calculated data, each row represents my manually recording off CaniOn when I stopped (first row is beginning values):

Pack°C,Volts,SoC%,WhOut,∆SoC%,∆WhOut,kWh,Comments
18,351,74,0
18.5,348,70,865,4.0,865,21.6,downhill
18.9,345,65.5,1485,4.5,620,13.8,level
19.6,343,55.5,3021,10.0,1536,15.4,level
20.4,337,39.5,5123,16.0,2102,13.1,uphill

Sorry, thought I could simply drop in comma-delimited data and use the "Code" feature to put into nice columns. Too late tonight to fix.

Using SoC%/WhOut for each leg of my short trip shows that my i-MiEV pack capacity in kWh is 21.6 :o , 13.8, 15.4, and 13.1.
Dunno why the first number is so high, but at least the last three numbers are in the ballpark. :geek:

Too tedious doing it manually and I guess I'll need to figure out the CaniOn data upload to my Mac and then parse it ...

BTW, jsantala, I also charge my Headway LiFePO4 4P16S packs to 3.46v/cell, although I normally keep the packs stored at 50%SoC (around 3.3v). Use for electric outboard, electric scooter, and standby power source.
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

tinoale
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:36 am

Re: Canion Battery Readings

Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:27 am

jsantala wrote:It is true that the SOC meter needs to be well calibrated to get an accurate reading with the simple method (not driving to 0%). If you never get down to turtle or at least the last bar flashing, your SOC calibration can be way off and your readings inaccurate. It might not be a bad idea to drive down to last few bars occasionally, if you'd like to avoid any nasty suprises when you go on that road trip.

My C-zero manual calls for a discharge down to 2 bars followed by a full charge every 2 weeks or every month (can't remember the periodicity). That could be related.

bobakka
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:03 am
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: Canion Battery Readings

Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:24 pm

bobakka wrote:
jray3 wrote:
bobakka wrote:I have owned my imiev for almost 4 years and been driving 77777 km. My 80% capacity guarantee expires in 14 months or 22222 km. I am positive that I have a range decrease, but it is very difficult to calculate how much. So how do I open a guarantee case against Mitsubishi if I need to?

What 80% capacity guarantee? Is that unique to the Norwegian market, and where else? IIRC, the US-market cars have no capacity guarantee.

Mitsubishi gave us a 80% capacity guarantee for 5 years / 100000 km in the Norwegian market. It is also documented in elbil.no. But I have never heard ony any that has been claiming that guarantee. I problems is maybe how you measure the capacity reductions. Probably it is by using amp hours.


Here is the documentation of the 80% guarantee:
http://www.elbil.no/elbilforeningen/dokumentarkiv/finish/9-diverse/125-kjopsveiledning-elbilmatrisen

Image
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gmr79rb5u86em ... e.png?dl=0

Under BATTERIER (batteries), Minste garanterte kapasitet (Minimum guaranteed capacity) you will see that it is quoted 80% for iMiev.
iMiev; New Feb 2011; 119000 km January 2017

priusfan
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:39 am
Location: France

Re: Canion Battery Readings

Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:12 am

Hello
Today I checked with mut3 the batt's temperatures...

Here is a screen capture from mut3:
Image

And here a screenshot from canion. This one was made 8 minutes before and all the figures (Volt, SoC, Amp) matched exactly...
Image

The last updated release is here (Martin is not any more interested in updating the playstore).

I also checked the remaining capacity, it is quite low for a car from August 2012...
Image

Xavier

RobertC
Posts: 292
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:35 am
Location: Winter Garden, FL

Re: Canion Battery Readings

Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:00 am

priusfan wrote:I also checked the remaining capacity, it is quite low for a car from August 2012...
Image
Is the 38.6Ah reading on the same car with 15,559km?
Is there any way that the "Battery current capacity" reading could be made part of Canion?
Thanks again for all of your effort.
”Red” - 2018 Red Dual Motor All-Wheel Drive Tesla Model 3 - 11/27/18
“Blue” - 2018 Kinetic Blue Chevy Bolt Premier with QC - 5/13/18
"Purple" - 2012 Raspberry Metallic ES with QC - 4/10/2013

priusfan
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:39 am
Location: France

Re: Canion Battery Readings

Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:07 am

Yes, the pictures are coming from the same car....

No, I have no idea how to get the remaining capacity...

FYI, I am using now a Newsmy NU3001 as 2DIN headunit.

It is not perfect, (see details here) but is just fine fine for this car:
Image

jsantala
Posts: 296
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:32 pm
Location: Finland
Contact: Website

Re: Canion Battery Readings

Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:42 am

Thanks for the updated version! It seems that it reports cell temperatures better now. Previously it showed +3...+5˚C when the cells obviously had to be below freezing. After the update the latest data showed them at -3...-9˚C after some charging, which is probably much more accurate.

Thanks again and do keep up posted! Or is there another site where I could check for updates?
kWsaki.com / EVs: Nissan Leaf 2012, Citroën Xsara 1997 (conv. 81V & 8" Series DC) and Kawasaki GPX750R 1987 (conv. 87V & ME1003 PMDC) / Used to have a Citroën C-Zero 2011

priusfan
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:39 am
Location: France

Re: Canion Battery Readings

Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:46 am

To our nordic europeans ion/C0 users:
for checking yourself the remaining capacity of your cars,
You will need:
a) the right interface. (lexia)
b) the right software. (diagbox)
c) a laptop. (personally, I use a old XP reserved for this use)

z) explore the soft...


you can search googling for "lexia diagbox"

You can also have a look there for instance.

BlueLightning
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:59 am
Location: Normandy France
Contact: Website

Re: Canion Battery Readings

Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:16 pm

Capacity measurement should probably be done at room temperature
For Prius's EV, the lost of capacity with temperature should be only around 4%, (if Prius's battery has been charged at room temperature, otherwise, it's probably more).
ImageExcel LV50 Battery Capacity Lost versus versus temperature ImageLV50 Discharge characteristics versus temperature
Source Development of Large-sized Lithium-ion Cell "LEV50" and Its Battery Module "LEV50-4" for Electric Vehicle
https://www.gs-yuasa.com/jp/technic/vol ... _1_021.pdf

Capacity measurement with heater at full power, https://www.dropbox.com/sh/b6rsy6a1k5ug ... Ah64a?dl=0 , search for a file "Heater & SoC Battery Capacity test.xls"
I added in the Excel sheet a temperature correction but the EV should be parked preferably at room temperature for charge and then for the discharge test.
This test takes around 15 mn and uses 5 % of SoC through the heater at full power.

Input for the Excel File

1 Full Heat on, car parked , Canion on view "Trip Timer"
2 To start the Test, wait a decrease of SoC and as fast as possible press Canion Reset on top on right , then "Wh Out Summary" is at zero, the test starts.
3 If not fast enough, do it again at the next 0.5% decrease for a correct SoC "zero"
4 Then at every 0.5% SoC decrease, note "Wh Out Summary", please be aware to do this correctly at the SoC decrease or reject this measure and be ready for the next 0.5% drop
5 At least do 6 measures, it's not a problem if it's not done at every 0.5% Soc, it will just take more time, it will take you around 15 mn.
6 Put your data in the blue cells, yellow cells have formulas, with battery average temperature before and after test.

0.5% SoC resolution does not help for precision in a capacity measurement, so get measures only when there is a change of SoC, and use the linear regression by calcul or with the curve "Wh Out Summary" versus SoC, this helps to smooth measurement's errors.
The slope of the straight line "Wh Out Summary" versus SoC should give the battery capacity

Do not ask me if this method is trustable, it just seems OK for my EV but tests are needed.
Some mails exchange with bobakka who tested this method showed there was a problem with temperature and measurement. It is now corrected, that's why you have the graph above.
But still, bad news, bobakka did two measures, first one gave 18% of capacity losted and then the second one gave 12% of capacity losted, and this, at one day interval.... See in the Excel file.
The reason might be that before a test, an autocalibration of the battery below two bars and at 100% charge should have been done recently...

Prius with his mut3 could have the answer if he could try this test.
Last edited by BlueLightning on Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

priusfan
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:39 am
Location: France

Re: Canion Battery Readings

Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:53 am

Hello
I made some tests today...

My method is easier (if you are familiar with excel).
The car was standing in the garage with full heater during 20 minutes.
temp was between 9 & 10°C
After this, I stopped canion and got the seclog_yyyy_mm_dd.txt file and analysed it in excel.
I removed the unnecessary columns,
I created a column WH whose formula is b_amp * b_volt / 3600 ,
I checked the sum of this column 994 WH (canion showed 999 WH) . So it is reasonably accurate...
I made a pivot table summing the WH for each b_soc.
I filled the sheet from bluelightning (it is in his dropbox).

Conclusion:
Uncorrected Battery Capacity is shown as 39.7AH
Mut showed 38.6AH

Xavier

ps: to generate automatically the seclog_yyyy_mm_dd.txt, you should, in settings, tick the option "Export data from today".

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