My iMiev needs a "Modifications, Tuning" forum

[rokeby]

Inevitably, owners will want to make changes to their i's.

There are many reasons. To name a few:
* better aerodynamics
* lighter or more stylish wheels
* adding a spare tire
* leather seat covers
* stereo upgrades, sub-woofer, etc
* window tinting
* custom paint and body wraps
* HV battery upgrades !!!???

By having a designated forum, all these matters would be gathered in one
place for easy viewing. We already have five threads in three forums that would
logically go in this single place:

Let the Hacking Begin
Aftermarket Parts Suppliers
After-market Rear View Camera
AWD drivetrain from a JDM I.C.E. i
Limited Edition Mitsubishi i-Miev

And while we're on the topic of needed forums, I had to make an arbitrary
decision as where to post this thread. "Off Topic" seemed the best choice.
If there were an "My iMiev Forum Issues" forum, that's where it should go.

As the number of members rises and it becomes necessary to upgrade forum
software, or make announcements of new or changed forum features (avatar
pictures, etc) this would be the logical place for them.

Yes? No? Your comments are welcomed.

 

[jray3]

Yes, though one logical split might be mechanical versus electrical/electronic mods (don't wanna be mixing discussion of rims with spinners and inverter reprogramming..)

 

[FiddlerJohn]

...Your comments are welcomed.

Good idea. A large faction of my post are designed to give the foundation for understanding and improvement. That's what I like to do: understand and improve.

My wife calls me a "modifier," except she slurs her words when she's angry. It sounds more like "MotherF_er!" You'd think a school teacher would have better diction. When I tried to call her on this, she says "Modifier is a term of endearment." ... I hate people that are smarter than me. She says I am not allowed to modify her car or our children. Okay, that's fair. The truth is I can only modify things I understand. Women and children are not in that category.

Interesting Investigations:
. Headlamp Leveling.
. EV Energy Planing GPS.
. Tapping Wheel Speed Sensor.
. Center plate of the back seat.
. Camera, mirrors, bluetooth, Radar, LASER, GPS Convergence.
. Trailers, carriers, towing options
. Power you house/camper from your car.
. Modifying the charger, inverter.
. Understand the software, getting source code.
. Charging options, Solar, wind, steam, hydro. tides.
. Extending range, Trailer, battery.
. Battery insulation and heating.
. Crawl mod
. Tapping Transmission Position Sensor, Temperature Sensors
. Tapping the current sensor
. Reading the internal codes the dealer checks.
. The CHAdeMO is very interesting
. RaspberryPi is very interesting http://www.alliedelec.com/RaspberryPi/

Most of these thing are just thought experiments, but a few might be worth building.

UNRELATED: Any be all you can be B-More dealers have an iMiEV for sale. All of my many dealers have two each but can't sell any. I need to buy one.

UPDATE 3/12/2012: I am the first person on the Right Coast buy an iMiEV.

 

[rokeby]

jray3 and Fiddlerjohn,

Thanks for your responses.

At least at he beginning and probably for a good long time, I think
that a single mods forum will work well.

On further thought, I now think the the forum should be named
Modifications and Accessories. Some things are clearly modifications
or changes to OEM equipment; rims, leather, etc. While other typical
changes are something new, like aftermarket GPS, and maybe even
aero-style body work.

Fiddlerjohn,

It's clear that you have an interest in going much further down the
modifications road than I have considered. Good on you!

I currently drive an '08 Prius Touring. I had to drive to Rhode Island
to get it as the SE Region Toyota dealers decided not to stock the car.
So, it's somewhat unique in the Baltimore area. However, the outward
signs of the Touring are quite subtle; a slightly larger rear spoiler
and 7 verses 6 spoke wheels. (The only other changes are mild
suspension tuning.)

So there are lots of pure OEM standard Prii that looked vaguely like my car...
before I started making subtle changes that is. Here it is:

The rims and retro '05 tail lamps are most noticable, I added a stiffer
underbody brace and a front tower brace to tighten up the steering.
All together I've made 20 mods/changes inside and out.
Now the car is mine, and truly unique.

This is the first time I've done anything like this, and its been a lot of fun.
If/when I do get an i(MiEV), I'll want to do it again and it's a whole lot easier
when you can talk over ideas and find suppliers with folks of a like mind.

Unrelated:
I've only contacted the one Mitsu dealer, Jerry's. But now that you've said
that there are i's at other dealers, I'm going to do some checking further
afield. Next Saturday, I will be going to a dealer to see the car,
whether it's in the immediate Balto area, or down to Annapolis.

 

[imiev]

Accessories and Modifications forum created, and mentioned posts have been moved. Thanks for the idea!

 

[marlon]

Dear All:

I don't quite know where to put this. I hope the administrator can put it where ever it belongs. I guess it goes with modifications somewhere. For people like myself (and I think there are a few of us on this forum from my reading), the only real problem with the i-miev is it doesn't have a manuel transmission. I know electric cars have tremendous torque and don't really need it. For that matter, modern ICE cars don't either. Hey, soon the Google car will drive itself. But, there's nothing quite like shifting for yourself and I know a lot of electric conversions save the shifter and the clutch and builders say its valuable. Check out some of the Miata conversions. In fact Toyota and Morgan Motors are looking to develop an electric car with a manuel. Looks like they are several years away. I've been told the i-miev has a cheap direct drive and there may not be room for a transmission.
Any one have any ideas? I'm afraid the technical aspects are way above me.

Marlon

 

[Don]

After dreaming of converting a Miata to an EV for years, I realized that the iMiEV was a better EV than I could ever hope to build and likely the cost wasn't that much different, so I bought one

In all of my sketches and plans for converting a Miata, the one thing I didn't want was . . . . a transmission. The neatest Miata conversion I've ever seen was one which used an adapter plate to mount the stock tailshaft from a Miata 5 speed directly to the end of a WarP9 series DC motor. Using only the tailshaft allowed for keeping the stock speedometer drive and the stock driveshaft and the motor basically mounted in the same place the Miata trans used to occupy - The transmission tunnel. This allowed all sorts of room for batteries where the engine used to be. To keep the weight at around 50/50 front to rear, there were also batteries mounted where the fuel tank used to be behind the seats and also more batteries which formed a new trunk floor - You had a smaller trunk than before, but the weight distribution was more important

I've had a '94 Miata for 12 or 13 years and every car I've owned for the past 45 years have all been manual transmission ICE's, so I LOVE driving manual trans cars. That said, the single thing I most like about a proper EV is . . . . it needs no transmission, either manual or automatic. True, some EV conversions which use DC motors do need a transmission, but only because their DC motors are usually RPM limited to 5,000 RPM or so, but our A/C motor can spin twice as fast, so when the DC drive EV needs to shift at around 40 mph, our A/C motor is just beginning to hit it's sweet spot. As is the case with steam engines, there is enough torque to adequately get a vehicle moving with a gear ratio which also permits freeway speeds, so . . . . no need to shift!!

If you don't need to shift, you don't need a clutch. If you don't need a clutch, you don't need a flywheel to mount it to, nor any clutch release mechanism, nor a gear selection mechanism. One of the things I like LEAST about my iMiEV is the 'pretend' shifter on the floor. Physically, it does nothing but engage the Park pawl . . . . all of the other selections are done with electrical switches, which could just as easily have been buttons on the dash. If I could get rid of the 'shifter' (it doesn't really 'shift' anything anyway) believe me, I would

When you already have something far better than an ICE transportation vehicle, why mimic the worst points of the vehicles you're trying to replace - Why pretend to shift when you're actually not shifting anything? Why install a real transmission when it would be all minuses and no plusses? As much as I love manual transmission cars, I'm sure glad my EV doesn't need one

Don

 

[alohart]

For people like myself (and I think there are a few of us on this forum from my reading), the only real problem with the i-miev is it doesn't have a manuel transmission.

What?!! :!: Why would not having a manual transmission be a problem? I already have a car with a manual transmission along with its clutch and synchronizers that wear out. Why would I want another car with these problems? The i-MiEV can drive from 0 to 80+ mph without shifting, so what would it gain with a manual transmission? A manual transmission with a higher gear would allow the i-MiEV to travel faster than 80 mph (assuming its motor has sufficient power), but the aerodynamic drag would quickly deplete the battery pack's charge, so why bother?

I know electric cars have tremendous torque and don't really need it.

Correct, so why add unnecessary components that add to cost, maintenance, and weight?

For that matter, modern ICE cars don't either.

What modern ICE car could drive from 0 to 80 mph in a single gear without quickly burning up its clutch trying to launch from a stop?

But, there's nothing quite like shifting for yourself

… if the car you're driving won't operate any other way.

and I know a lot of electric conversions save the shifter and the clutch and builders say its valuable.

… possibly because mounting the electric motor to an existing transmission is the easiest conversion method. Or maybe these conversions use much less expensive DC motors whose rotational speed limits might require the use of a transmission unlike the AC motors used in all production EV's.

In fact Toyota and Morgan Motors are looking to develop an electric car with a manuel.

I wonder why they would to that considering that a Tesla Model S can travel very rapidly from 0 to 120 mph without a transmission.

I've been told the i-miev has a cheap direct drive and there may not be room for a transmission.

A direct drive is certainly less expensive than an unnecessary, expensive, heavy transmission, so I'll take that kind of "cheap" any day. There is almost certainly not enough room for a transmission without extensive, expensive modifications.

 

[aarond12]

Agreed. The first batch of the Tesla Roadster had a two-speed transmission. They quickly found out that (1) there were a lot of transmission failures from the torque and (2) they didn't really need it anyway.

One of the things I saw on several home-made EV conversions with manual transmissions is that they usually left it in 2nd. They were utilizing the clutch only.

 

[iMiEVNZ7]

Hi Marlon,
I too have been wondering about the production based electric cars not having a multispeed gear box, and had thought to ask the question on the forum also, so well done for asking it.

As you know now, Tesla also thought it would be a good idea, and apart from the transmission not being strong enough it appeared to work, but with the AC motors achieving high revs no problems they have left it, the gearbox, out for now.

That said though, as a thought, if you mount a electric motor with a fixed gearbox, single ratio, as a test, on the bench in a test frame, and apply power to it, it will speed up to a certain point at a certain voltage and current. The output shaft will be at a different speed to the motor speed.

Now if one was to say change the fixed gearbox ratio or try a multi gearbox and speed the motor to a same output shaft speed, I wonder if the voltage and current requirements would be less.

So in essence say a motor at say a 10, 000 rpm speed into a say a single speed gearbox output of 5000 RPM draws a certain current and uses a certain voltage, would maybe use at no load, more power in total, than a 5,000 RPM output into a different ratio gearbox with a shaft output of 5, 000 RPM also at no load.


I haven't tried it so am unsure, but I do know that in the old days, cars had only 2 or three speed gear boxes, the four, then five, now I have seen a 8 speed on an Audi and they think the theoretical max for best eficcientcy would be 9 speeds.

I wonder seeing how even a petrol or diesel motor which has fixed torque available at a certain engine speed, would compare to our electric motor that if one looks at the output graphs, does reduce torque slightly as the motor revs increase to the high end. By that I mean if a petrol engine can gain from a set of speeds in a gearbox, at a fixed torque, could the electric motor also gain from multispeed gear boxes.

for instance, the iMiEV easily flies up most hills here, but I am sure it would go up even quicker if it had a lower gear for hill use.

Also, and I may be wrong here, but I think but do not know, that if one applies a steady force to an object in a vacum then that object will steadily get faster. If one applies the same steady force to say a car, such as in a petrol manual car, moving off from a rolling start in say third gear, the car will at a fixed throttle posistion, slowly move off, then go faster even though the throttle stays steady. Induction of air into the motor and resultant power increases aside, and the changing torque as the revs increase also aside, the car does seem to need less energy to move faster once moving.

I have tried to apply the same test in the single speed iMiEV and found that on applying a steady set throttle position the car will slowly at first then faster, get up and go even though the torque stays the same.


So unless it is a product of both motor speed and torque which is likely, using a lower geared fixed speed or a multispeed gearbox would allow the iMiEV to accelerate faster with the available torque from a rolling start, then switch to a more relaxed motor speed for perhaps less battery use.

I don't know, but it seems it could be an idea to test out.

 

[iMiEVNZ7]

Not sure where to put this so feel free to move it if you like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdEyjjt52kU

imiev android SPC app used for a leaf.

 

[camiev]

What does this do? How do we use this in iMiev?

thx