So, I wanted to drain the brush and completely charge it like the dealership has told me to do, but I left it on with the Ac on and forgot about it and drained the 12v battery too. I jump started it and the 12 v is working but when I plug in the charger it starts but then shuts off in a minute or so.
Help won't charge
- Thread starter cyders
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PV1
Well-known member
Sorry to hear of your trouble. Just to cover the easy stuff, when you plug the car in, do you have the key in the Lock position? If the key is in the On position, the car won't charge. Also, if you have the car unplugged, will it go READY (start)?
The AC and Heat are supposed to shut down when the turtle light illuminates, which means there is roughly 10% charge left in the battery. From this point until shutdown would take quite a while, not to mention running the 12 volt battery flat as well.
I'm not sure why the dealer told you to completely discharge the battery. Taking the charge down to 2 bars on the charge gauge is sufficient.
The AC and Heat are supposed to shut down when the turtle light illuminates, which means there is roughly 10% charge left in the battery. From this point until shutdown would take quite a while, not to mention running the 12 volt battery flat as well.
I'm not sure why the dealer told you to completely discharge the battery. Taking the charge down to 2 bars on the charge gauge is sufficient.
Yeah the AC doesn't turn off till almost completely dead. He said it retains the battery. It did start right after I jump started the 12 volt but stopped now. The radio and lights are all working now so the 12v is charged but the rest won't. I've tried it all different ways. It starts to charge the fan comes on, then everything goes off.
Malm
Well-known member
When it happened to me, not charging, it was a problem with the internal charger. I have now a new one, given in the 5 year waranty. I believe it will charge via Chademo, if it have that option. When that happened to me, I cold charge via the Chademo port.
mdbuilder
Well-known member
cyders said:
Good that it works now. I would think that once it fails to initiate it has failed, leaving it plugged in for hours does nothing. Plug in initiates a handshake where the car and evse agree on current then the contactors in the evse close and power flows. If the contactors fail to close that should be it for the session.
Every once in a blue moon, one of mine will start to charge and shut off a minute or so later - Happened maybe 4 or 5 times in 4 years with two cars. It does nothing until you unplug it and plug it back in
Can't imagine why anyone (especially anyone at a dealership) would tell you to discharge the car completely - "Retains the battery?" Damages the battery is more like it. Don't do that again! You're going to need a new 12 volt battery, sooner rather than later. It really hurts a lead acid battery when you discharge it flat
Don
Can't imagine why anyone (especially anyone at a dealership) would tell you to discharge the car completely - "Retains the battery?" Damages the battery is more like it. Don't do that again! You're going to need a new 12 volt battery, sooner rather than later. It really hurts a lead acid battery when you discharge it flat
Don
PV1
Well-known member
Glad you were able to get some charge in it. Until you drive the car more and vet the charger's functionality, I would try to keep at least enough charge to make it to the closest dealer or quick charger (assuming you have the quick charge option, look for a black lever on the floor beside the driver seat).
Every once in a while, it is recommended to discharge the battery down to 1-2 bars and do an uninterrupted full charge to calibrate the charge gauge. It doesn't do much for the battery itself, but it keeps the instrumentation accurate.
Every once in a while, it is recommended to discharge the battery down to 1-2 bars and do an uninterrupted full charge to calibrate the charge gauge. It doesn't do much for the battery itself, but it keeps the instrumentation accurate.
They certainly did not recommend killing the 12v. That was my bad. But when I first got my car it was used, and the battery did really funky things and it only got less than 40 city miles before needing a charge. They took it at the dealership and drained the power down fully and charged it completely several times and it's held a much better charge since. I do get much better mileage if I go from completely empty - meaning it says I have no miles left - which means ive got about 10 or so and then fully charge it. He explained it works kind of the same way as a computer or cell battery - if you never let the battery die the battery life goes down. the 12v is brand new they replaced it when I first bought it and it would not charge. The dealership I bought it from though should not be allowed to sell them because they know nothing about them, kept talking about how great free oil changes were - im like i wont need that - they had no clue. it died on the freeway after driving like 5 miles from the dealership. I was not impressed.
mdbuilder
Well-known member
Find a different dealer :shock:
Lithium batteries are not like decade old cell phones, they do not have memory. The problem you were having which was addressed by the discharge has to do with the electronics that sit between you and the car, the electronics make calculations based on usage but not based on the actual battery capacity is the best way I'd describe it. The occasional (it is recommended once every year I think) discharge to 2 bars or below lets the electronics find the actual end points and reset the range they use to provide you information on the dash RR meter.
Lithium batteries are not like decade old cell phones, they do not have memory. The problem you were having which was addressed by the discharge has to do with the electronics that sit between you and the car, the electronics make calculations based on usage but not based on the actual battery capacity is the best way I'd describe it. The occasional (it is recommended once every year I think) discharge to 2 bars or below lets the electronics find the actual end points and reset the range they use to provide you information on the dash RR meter.
Actually, the opposite is true - If you fully charge and then 95% discharge every time you might get 1,500 to 2,000 'cycles' out of the battery before it's gone, but if you were to always start your charge at 30% capacity and always end your charge at 80% capacity, you might get 10,000 cycles before the battery is gone. As mentioned though, you do need to fully charge every month to 6 weeks or so to recalibrate the meter and balance the battery packcyders said:
Our lithium pack doesn't like being kept at either extreme - 0 to 5% nor 95 to 100% - It much prefers to be kept in the middle 50% - 30 to 80 and it will live several times longer if regularly treated that way
Don
PV1
Well-known member
Agreed with Don. 30%-80% charge translates into 3-14 bars on the charge gauge. 2 bars of charge is 25%, and "empty" is 12%.
Is the car still charging or did it quit again?
Is the car still charging or did it quit again?
mdbuilder
Well-known member
FWIW, "Full" for lithium packs is generally considered to be 4.2 per cell 4.1 is only 90%
Mitsubishi incorporated the buffering margin by calling the i-MiEV's cell 100% charged when 4.1v is reached - that is the number CaniOn reads from the car and which we consistently refer to.mdbuilder said:
4.1v * 88cells= 360.8vdc = 100% (I won't quibble over the last 0.8v)
Other manufacturers take an even narrower view of the operating window; e.g., Volt IIRC.
Let's not forget, the conservative approach is aimed at prolonging the life of the battery by restricting both the usable battery operating window and peak currents and temperatures seen by the battery. It's a constant battle between the marketeers (who want to tout range and acceleration) and the engineers trying to quantify the degradation from extreme use, with the beancounters trying not to expose the company to too much warranty liability. I'd bet that they factored in the few cars exposed to the blistering Arizona heat or the Canadian ultra-low temperatures as potentially having a higher failure rate which would need to be accommodated. I personally am amazed that the battery warranty is as good as it is.
Back on topic,
I was confused by this as I thought we were talking about 12v not working and causing a problem with charging. What died?cyders said:
Anyway, cyders, you mention that the main pack is charging and that is good. Let us know if any more hiccups occur and exactly what the symptoms are - in the meantime, try not to go below two bars and if you charge fully then drive it off soon and don't leave it sitting fully fully charged in hot weather.
blackheart
Well-known member
Well, I had to leave the car at home with 4 bars in it bc mine is now not charging. Any good home diagnostic I can do?
Use a cotton swab (q-tip) to clean out any dirt, debris or moisture in the charge port on the car, also do the same for the terminal contacts in EVSE plug. The EVSE checks for a good Ground path by intentionally leaking a tiny bit of current around the GFI to prove that the Ground exists and that it is good, and to prove that the GFI circuit is working properly. So it is important that there are no open Ground paths due to the high resistance of dirt or debris in the connectors, and also that there are no short circuit paths for the Mains Line to either Neutral or Ground.
If that doesn't work then open the rear deck lid and vacuum off all the dirt and debris on the charger and motor controller and inspect for possible moisture or leakage that could create a high resistance "short". The BMU will throw a ground leakage code if the insulation resistance doesn't meet specs, the value in the manual is 10 MegOhms.
If that doesn't work then open the rear deck lid and vacuum off all the dirt and debris on the charger and motor controller and inspect for possible moisture or leakage that could create a high resistance "short". The BMU will throw a ground leakage code if the insulation resistance doesn't meet specs, the value in the manual is 10 MegOhms.
sandange
Well-known member
If what Kiev sugegsted doesn't work ,
You could try using another EVSE to charge, both 110v & 220v , and or try charging with a L3 charger if you have one close by . This will help narrow down where the problem is.
You could try using another EVSE to charge, both 110v & 220v , and or try charging with a L3 charger if you have one close by . This will help narrow down where the problem is.
Oh yeah one other thing i discovered using the MUT3 clone tool (probably could have seen this with CanIon also but didn't try it this time)--if the pack voltage is at the upper limit (~360 VDC), then the car won't charge--it will shut off the charger within 20 seconds of pluggin in.
This may seem obvious, but it wasn't in this case. The 'gas' gauge was only indicating 7 bars when i plugged and it quit charging showing 10 bars. So i went back out and kept trying to charge to "top" up the pack to make a long trip across town, and the EVSE kept getting disconnected from the car and it wouldn't charge?
When i checked for DTCs with the mut tool, there were none. So i ran a datastream to see what was on the CAN buss. The aux battery was 12.6 open circuit, but 11.9 with the key ON (and EVSE plugged in). The datastream showed the range indicator as 60% and the pack voltage as 360.1 VDC.
So i thought i needed to charge, but the damn car knew better even though the gauge was only showing a little over half full.. So i'm gonna head out on that long trip, and i hope the pack is full and the gauge is just needing a re-calibration charge. My pack capacity reading with the mut said 37.4 A-Hr with 22 remaining.
EDIT: Uh Oh, that didn't go well. i got 5 miles down the road and the car went into Turtle mode with RBS, ! , and aux battery warning lights. The aux battery was reading 14.9 while driving and i had charged it several hours just to be sure it wasn't going to be an issue. Connected CanIon and found cell #47 was way out of line with the rest, 3.8 vs 4.0. i was able to restart and go into READY, but after a short distance it would go into turtle. So it was a short trip. This is a Feb 2012 car with 40,069 miles. Starting a new thread on getting the pack replaced...
This may seem obvious, but it wasn't in this case. The 'gas' gauge was only indicating 7 bars when i plugged and it quit charging showing 10 bars. So i went back out and kept trying to charge to "top" up the pack to make a long trip across town, and the EVSE kept getting disconnected from the car and it wouldn't charge?
When i checked for DTCs with the mut tool, there were none. So i ran a datastream to see what was on the CAN buss. The aux battery was 12.6 open circuit, but 11.9 with the key ON (and EVSE plugged in). The datastream showed the range indicator as 60% and the pack voltage as 360.1 VDC.
So i thought i needed to charge, but the damn car knew better even though the gauge was only showing a little over half full.. So i'm gonna head out on that long trip, and i hope the pack is full and the gauge is just needing a re-calibration charge. My pack capacity reading with the mut said 37.4 A-Hr with 22 remaining.
EDIT: Uh Oh, that didn't go well. i got 5 miles down the road and the car went into Turtle mode with RBS, ! , and aux battery warning lights. The aux battery was reading 14.9 while driving and i had charged it several hours just to be sure it wasn't going to be an issue. Connected CanIon and found cell #47 was way out of line with the rest, 3.8 vs 4.0. i was able to restart and go into READY, but after a short distance it would go into turtle. So it was a short trip. This is a Feb 2012 car with 40,069 miles. Starting a new thread on getting the pack replaced...
blackheart
Well-known member
MAYDAY!!
Just rolled over 20k in my 2012 iMiev. I like to have my battery topped off before leaving for work. When we went to take the dog for a walk, I noticed the car was still charging on my L1 plug. No worries, just swap the plug into the L2. The orange 'charge' light never came on. I thought it was fully charged and didn't think any more about it.
After the dog walk and the shower and breakfast and much needed coffee, I grabbed the remote to preheat the car and get things defrosted. I couldn't get the signal to send/or the car to receive. Just got an error. This happens sometimes so I move closer to the car. Still nothing. Ok, that's fine, I'll use the heater and hope I don't have to go anywhere after work.
Drove to work, everything was fine. Drove home, everything was fine. Went to plug in the car on the L2 plug so I can take the wife out to dinner later and never noticed the charge light come on. But didn't think about it.
Two hours later, I go to get the car heated, and the same thing happened, errors with the remote. I went outside and the orange light wasn't on. I thought that was strange. Two hours on L2 wouldn't have fully charged the car.
The remote did show the battery quite low. The gauge on the dash showed it didn't charge at all. I unplugged the car and plugged it in again. The lights came on the EVSE like normal, but the charge light never came back on.
I tried the L2 several more times. And then the L1 and the same thing. No charge. The contactors never 'clicked'.
With very little charge, I reluctantly took the ICE to get the wife. After coming home, and stressing out that my charger was bad, I plugged in the car and 'ta-daaa', the contactors clicked, the orange light came on...
Anyone have a similar story? Anyone know why?
I am going to be taking it to the dealer tonight and driving my ICE (I think I just threw up a little). Can anyone tell me what they think before I take it to a dealer who has probably only ever worked on one of these before? And that was probably my car when I took it in for a review after I bought it!!!
Thanks!
Just rolled over 20k in my 2012 iMiev. I like to have my battery topped off before leaving for work. When we went to take the dog for a walk, I noticed the car was still charging on my L1 plug. No worries, just swap the plug into the L2. The orange 'charge' light never came on. I thought it was fully charged and didn't think any more about it.
After the dog walk and the shower and breakfast and much needed coffee, I grabbed the remote to preheat the car and get things defrosted. I couldn't get the signal to send/or the car to receive. Just got an error. This happens sometimes so I move closer to the car. Still nothing. Ok, that's fine, I'll use the heater and hope I don't have to go anywhere after work.
Drove to work, everything was fine. Drove home, everything was fine. Went to plug in the car on the L2 plug so I can take the wife out to dinner later and never noticed the charge light come on. But didn't think about it.
Two hours later, I go to get the car heated, and the same thing happened, errors with the remote. I went outside and the orange light wasn't on. I thought that was strange. Two hours on L2 wouldn't have fully charged the car.
The remote did show the battery quite low. The gauge on the dash showed it didn't charge at all. I unplugged the car and plugged it in again. The lights came on the EVSE like normal, but the charge light never came back on.
I tried the L2 several more times. And then the L1 and the same thing. No charge. The contactors never 'clicked'.
With very little charge, I reluctantly took the ICE to get the wife. After coming home, and stressing out that my charger was bad, I plugged in the car and 'ta-daaa', the contactors clicked, the orange light came on...
Anyone have a similar story? Anyone know why?
I am going to be taking it to the dealer tonight and driving my ICE (I think I just threw up a little). Can anyone tell me what they think before I take it to a dealer who has probably only ever worked on one of these before? And that was probably my car when I took it in for a review after I bought it!!!
Thanks!
