Gear Selector Misbehaving

[montybazbaz]

I've asked this on the UK SpeakEV website but haven't had a response and am now getting desperate.

Our 24000 mile Czero has developed an odd fault, The gear selector suddenly doesn't feel "right", and after being parked on our sloping driveway with the handbrake fully on, sometimes the lever goes into D position (but not fully home) and the car still thinks its in N, or does set off with D displayed by then it starts to flash and the warning and turtle mode lights come on. Usually a stop and reset, and a good pull on the lever will get it in drive, but its not right at all.

But its intermittent. The lever felt fine on my drive home, and went into R N and D with the usual clonks, but a trip to collect daughter from nursery brought the same problem . In fact, when i pushed the lever into P, the car thought it was in N until I jiggled the lever about. And then when i selected the ratios, the car faulted and the indicator flashed again.

Does the cable wear or stretch ? Chall i try and dismatle the lever assembly to look for any foreign object ? Or is the switch on the motor faulty/gummed up ? in fact, how do i access this swtich,

Its very frustrating. There is nothign wrong with the car at all - but his simple thing could immobilise it.

 

[PV1]

If the shifter feels fine when it messes up, it sounds like it could be dirty contacts, but if you're feeling a difference in how the shifter moves, then it sounds like something mechanical.

I'd look at the selector box on the gearbox. It is a black box where the cable attaches to the gearbox on the left-hand side. See if it is damaged or if something is loose.

 

[kiev]

Cables do stretch over time and it may need an adjustment.

In addition sliding electrical contacts get dirty over time and may need cleaning or replacement. There are actually two sets of contacts for each gear position--sort of a redundant system but each set has a different function.

 

[JoeS]

montybazbaz, I would stop immediately and take the cover off the shifter assembly and see if there is a mechanical problem: the two cables attached to the shifter activate the ignition lock and the parking sprag, whereas I believe the shifter mechanically activates the various microswitches. I have not taken this apart myself, but would be very very leery of driving the car until the problem was understood.

 

[siai47]

The shifter on the I-MiEV is connected by a cable to the transaxle. The switch that tell the car what direction the car is going to travel (i.e. reverse, neutral, forward) is mounted on the transaxle. There is an alignment pin that can be put in the switch to confirm that it is synchronized with the "gates" in the floor shifter. Like another member said, the cable can get out of adjustment. You really need to look at a service manual because you don't want to mess up the crazy key/brake interlock which is also located in the floor shifter. All that being said, the car should never be able to shift out of park by itself. It sounds like something is loose and going to fall off. If you remove the cover over the shifter (console first with screws under the rear and a couple of pushpins) you will see the two small cables out of the front of the shifter and one large cable going to the rear. The large cable the one you are interested in. Make sure the cable anchor is firmly locked in place in the front clamp and the cable end is tight where it attaches with a pin to the plastic part at the bottom of the shifter. Pull on the cable jacket to make sure it is not moving in the clamp. The cable then goes through the floor near the rear of the front passenger seats and comes out just above the left side half-shaft at the transaxle. You might be able to see it with a mirror from the top, but the battery charger will block your ability to really check it out by touch. You will most likely have to get under the car to complete this. You will see the cable jacket is anchored to a clamp (holder) on the transaxle then goes to an arm attached to the shifter shaft that passes through gear selector electrical switch. See if you can find anything loose (cables, clamps, switch mounting, nut holding the arm on, etc.). Have someone move the shifter slowly back and forth and see if you can find any slop in the linkage. The key is synchronizing the switch and the shifter gates with no slop in the system to make it work properly. BTW, the position switch is easy to remove by taking the nut off the shift arm on the transaxle. Then you remove the mounting bolts and the connector and the switch slides off the shaft if you need to replace it.

 

[JoeS]

montybazbaz: update? That sounded potentially serious and siai47 provided a excellent explanation.

 

[montybazbaz]

the car actually started to behave. The lever felt fine and I assumed it was some grit or debris in the switch mechanism that worked its way out. Then my son asked is the car fixed.....and it's started to mess again.

Now...it seems to be if the car is parked nose up on our drive. The handbrake holds it fine, but after being parked.overnight there is stiffness in the gear lever amd it takes a good pull to register D on the dashboard. After first tug it's better but stil not right. There's also a little squeak of brake rubbing for a couple of seconds after driving away.

Park nose down and doesn't do it as much.

Now......do the parking brake pawls need a lube ? Are they sticking ? Would movement of the car in P translate to something putting a strain on the selector Cable and mech ?

I've tried to download the manual for the car using the links here but it doesn't work on my pc. A link to an exploded diagram of the selector mech, switch and parking mech pawls would be extremely helpful and possibly provide an insight.

 

[montybazbaz]

For once it is sunny here so I've had a crawl.under the car. Yes siai's excellent descriptions is bang on. The cable all feels fine....it comes down into a bracket to.clamp the sleeve then there a gator around part of it to the moving arm with the switch. Now....then there is a rod at the other end of the arm to another lever about 6 inches ahead of it.

Everything feels fine. No slack, nothing loose, all gaiters intact. I tried moving stuff but everything is locked solid.

I wonder if there's some debris in the selector lever mech ?

If/when I take that apart I'll see about adding the B and C driving modes too.

It also seems that the P position brake is actually built into the transmission and therefore nothing is serviceable on it nor can be adjusted ?
It seems fine in operation as it hold the car on a hill.

 

[JoeS]

Hmmm, I wonder if part of your issue might be the manner in which you are engaging P?

Once again, siai47 gave an excellent description in this thread:

http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1741

To reiterate, one should not let the parking sprag (pawl) hold the car on an incline. For example, on an incline, you DO NOT put the car in P and take your foot off the brake without having first engaged the hand brake. Doing so will result in a lurch and a thunk as the sprag engages.

The proper way, on even the slightest incline, is to keep foot on brake, shift to P, pull hand brake, release foot brake. The parking sprag may or may not have engaged, but it is the hand brake that is holding the car in place.

Reversing the process: start car, foot on brake, release hand brake, shift out of P, and only then release foot brake.

If you are in a situation whereby you do not want to leave the car's hand brake engaged (e.g., a wet drive followed by freezing conditions) on an incline, then with foot on brake shift into P and then slowly release the brake so the car rolls slightly and the sprag engages. The steeper the incline, the sharper the clunk and jolt as the sprag engages.

 

[montybazbaz]

I'd like to think I'm doing it right....but not in that order. Firstly the had brake is correctly adjusted so hold the car.

I drive onto the driveway in D or R and hold the car on the footbrake. Then apply the handbrake fully,slip the ransmission into N, release footbrake (and the car moves a tad as it settles) then apply P.

So there shouldn't be any movement of the car against the pawls.

But SOMETHING sometimes seems to pull the gear cable further towards the P position, making it hard to go to D in the morning....

Yet today it was fine. I take it the detent you can feel are all in the selector mech and not from the mech on the motor ?

 

[siai47]

I wish I could post a picture here in a easy manner as I have a good picture of the transaxle split in two parts and you can see everything we are discussing. There are two things that need to be synchronized when adjusting the shift cable. There are the detents that you can see and feel very easily at the shifter in the car. There is a second set of detents inside the transaxle that need to line up exactly with the shifter detents. If you remove the cable from the shift arm on the transaxle you can feel them---they are really there to make sure the shift position switch is lined up correctly. The final thing is an adjustment of the electric position switch to correspond with the detent position in the transaxle. That is the purpose of the little "alignment pin" hole in the switch. Unless it is loose, the switch adjustment shouldn't be a problem. I still think there is a internal problem in the cable (stretched?) or where it clamps at either end. There cannot be any play in the cable or linkage to make this work. If you could get the car on a hoist or jack stands and someone to help you could check this all out. I would jack up the car so the rear wheels are off the ground and block the front wheels. Set the parking brake so the rear wheels cannot turn--you need to stay clear of the wheels and hands/arms away from the half-shafts when under the car just in case they do. With the car in the ready mode, have your helper put the transmission in neutral position and keep his feet away from the accelerator pedal. Disconnect the cable at the shift arm on the transaxle. Move the shift arm on the transaxle one position to either drive or reverse. Make sure you can feel the arm drop into the detent in the transaxle and ask your helper if the car is showing the proper position on the dash. Then have your helper move the gear selector to the position indicated on the dash (i.e. drive showing on the dash, move the shifter to drive) Do this for each position and each time verify that the cable end you removed from the shifter can be slipped back on the shift arm without any effort (no tugging on the cable, it should drop in place. Then pull and push on the cable end to check for any movement--there might be some but not more then a millimeter or so. When that is done, turn the car to the off position, put the shifter in park and release the parking brake. Move the transaxle shift arm to the park position and while having your helper hold one of the rear tires, rotate the other until the parking pawl drops into the lock position and neither rear tire can be rotated. Then check that the shift cable can be attached back in position and put the retainer back on the arm. BTW--the way the parking pawl is designed, depending on where the transmission gear is located when you try to put it in park, the car may or may not roll a bit until it locks in . This is normal like any other car that uses this method to lock the transmission. Also, like any other car, if you park on an incline and allow the car to roll into the position that the parking pawl drops into the gear, it wedges the two parts together and can make it very difficult to get the pawl to release with the shifter. Repeated parking in this manner can bend brackets, stretch the shift cable and mess up the adjustment between the shifter detents and the transaxle detents. If parking on a hill, always use the handbrake before releasing the service (foot) brake pedal and then put the transaxle in park. This will prevent this problem from happening. Sorry for the long post but like they say, it takes a thousand words to describe what a picture is worth. Good luck on getting this resolved.

 

[PV1]

Siai47, send your pictures to me at the link below, and I will post them.

http://dbinbox.com/pv1

Could your procedure be done with the car On, but not READY? This would allow the gear indicator on the dash to work, but it won't send any power to the motor.

 

[montybazbaz]

Thank you. My own email is dieselweasel185 at gmail dot com if you wish to send directly.

And guess what. The car is now behaving again ?! Drive engages with a good firm clonk. I really can't understand the intermittent nature of this.

Is there any way in which movement of the car with parking brake on will pull the cable further on to the P position ?

 

[PV1]

Perhaps there is a loose part or piece of something in the shifter assembly in the car?

 

[PV1]

Ok. Here are the photos Siai47 sent to me to post here. Very simple design indeed.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/icp14uhmpr38k96/AAAbIrXx7qUd8AHVTec7CcDLa?dl=0

 

[montybazbaz]

Well.....its been fine for ages. Then I left it unused for four days...

Reverse off our drive, then try to put it in D. The lever is very stiff and drops into the D position only after a good hard pull. But the display says N.

I try to put it into P but although the lever goes forward into P, the indicator shows R.

And pulling amd pushing it a few times get the car moving but not well. I drive to work leaving it in D all the way, and it's the same going home.

So I'm convinced it's something seizing up...god old stiction.

In desperation I try some WD40 on every joint/pivot on the cable/switch/rod mechanism at the rear of the car.

And the selector now works beatifully.....

So, I may have cured it but need a decent lubricant for long term use.

And oddly, as far as I know, lubricating all these buts ISN'T part of the service schedule. Given the prone position of these components I'm very surprised it's not touched.

 

[PV1]

I guess Joe isn't the first to wear out the shifter :lol: .

It still sounds like either the cable is going bad or there is debris somewhere locking it up.

 

[montybazbaz]

I'll see how it gets on...but the feel.of the lever is back to normal. For now !

 

[JoeS]

...In desperation I try some WD40 on every joint/pivot on the cable/switch/rod mechanism at the rear of the car. And the selector now works beatifully.....

Wow, so you've shown that it is simply a lubrication issue and not an alignment problem or loose hardware. Thank you for your follow-up posting.

Now that you have temporarily addressed the issue (I never consider WD40 a permanent solution) perhaps need to consider all the moving parts (sheathed cables, levers, etc.) and figure out the best lubricant for each and carefully clean the surfaces and apply it? I can see this being a future issue for our friends in snowy northern climes.

 

[montybazbaz]

Well....its still early days but I think it's identified the issue. I'm in the UK in an area that sees a lot of salt in winter and the car is 5 years old....so I suspect it had all dried out and seized.

It looks awkward to sheath the relevant bits. Can anyone suggest a suitable long lasting lubricant, something able to withstand the harsh environment that the designers of the car stupidly decided to place these it in ?!

I can't believe I'm the first to have this problem though.