Lithium Titanate / JDM version

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Vinyl

New member
Joined
Apr 1, 2022
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2
Hello,

I am new to the forum.

Recently i am shifting slowly towards EV. I am looking for some used car for the first venture of this kind.

I crossed across the Mitsubishi, upon further recognition i found out there were some short series packet with LTO cells in the battery pack.

What i know from Wikipedia these LTO batteries were introduced only to early versions of the car in Japan only.

Any chances someone encountered sth like this? (Vehicle from the Japan - market import)? These batteries are said to have extra performance hence my curiosity.

Question is: How to find these ones? Are they marked with a special tag/model? Are they maybe produced within certain period?

Any help appreciated, thank vinyl:)
 
Vinyl, welcome to the forum.

First off, I modified your post title to reflect JDM - Japanese Domestic Market vehicle. The expression you originally used is considered a pejorative dating back to WWII (no problem, as English is undoubtedly not your primary language).

Secondly, I deleted your first post, as this second one is an elaboration of the first.

With that behind us, I'm delighted you're interested in moving into electric vehicles and the i-MiEV is certainly an excellent contender for local driving.

As you pointed out, Wikipedia provides a wealth of information about our cars:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_i-MiEV

Your question about i-MiEVs using Toshiba's Super Charge Ion Battery (SCiB) with its Lithium Titanate Oxide chemistry (and its claimed benefits) is interesting, and hopefully someone can answer your question as to the JDM i-MiEV availability abroad and how to recognize the LTO battery.

Please do note that the SCiB tech battery was only 10.5kWh (compared to the nominal usual 16kWh) which would severely further reduce the already-limited range of the i-MiEV - you might reconsider even looking for one of these simply because you cannot drive very far on 10.5kWh: 40 miles (64km) is very limiting for most purposes, and that was with a brand-new battery which by now has probably lost some capacity.

To let us know where you are located, you might consider updating your profile (which will show your location by your username whenever you post), the procedure described here:
http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3196

Wish you all the best in your EV pursuits.
 
@up thx for reply, wasn't aware of the pejorative meaning

I am very curious about overall experience with these cells. Their specs promise long lasting performance, but i found no relevant data from actual users of those.

You wrote that one could expect some some capacity loss on these LTO cells but isn't it so that they are far less prone for this kind of flaws than lithium ion/ lithium polymer?

I kindly welcome any input to the discussion.
 
Vinyl said:
You wrote that one could expect some some capacity loss on these LTO cells but isn't it so that they are far less prone for this kind of flaws than lithium ion/ lithium polymer?
As far as I know, LiPo (Lithium Ion Polymer) is not used in any EVs; it's just too dangerous. You usually see it in radio controlled model planes and the like.

LTO is a low voltage chemistry, nominally 2.4 VPC (compared with around 3.7 VPC for ternary lithium, and 3.2 V for LFP). The low cell voltage makes for very low degradation, but also very low energy density, as you need more cells to make up for the lack of voltage. Some LTO batteries intended for home solar storage have a warranty of 20 years.

With the low degradation of LTO and high degradation of the original chemistry (LMO? I forget), it's quite possible that a 10 year old LTO vehicle will have better range and a longer expected life than a vehicle with the standard 16 kWh battery. This would especially be the case in areas with high temperature climate. Ironically Japan where these were sold has a fairly cold climate.

I don't know how to spot one, unless the battery capacity is written on a compliance plate somewhere. The 10.5 kWh battery capacity would identify one. Don't get confused with the 80-cell packs in some parts of Europe (perhaps Peugeot branded?) which would have about a 14.5 kWh capacity. In Australia, we have importers that specialise in grey market Japanese cars; these seem to make grey importing relatively painless and reasonable value for money.
 
Perhaps I can chip in, as someone currently living in Japan.

The SCiB version of the i-MiEV is fairly sought after, as looking at the used car market here the "M" version (compared to the base grade/G/X models with a battery chemistry similar/identical to those outside of Japan) which was sold until 2015 I believe, has kept its value quite well, even after many years have passed.

Even those from 2011, the majority of batteries show battery health at 105% (!!)

The main advantages of the SCiB battery put simply:

- Extremely resilient to heat/DC fast charging - using a 50 kW charger it can go from 0 ~ 100% in approx. 15 mins
- Shows minimal degradation even after thousands of charging cycles

Disadvantages have already been mentioned, i.e. lower battery density. As the "M" was sold as the lower end version, niceties such as keyless start, tinted back windows and alloy wheels are absent, unless these were added as dealer options when bought new.

I will have to disagree with Joe about the range however, as 100 km (at least in ideal conditions) is certainly very achievable in these cars from what I have heard from other owners.
 
miggols99, thank you very much for your informed update. Delighted to hear that the SCiB batteries are holding up so well over time and, at this point in history, that does indeed make them very desirable.
miggols99 said:
...I will have to disagree with Joe about the range however, as 100 km (at least in ideal conditions) is certainly very achievable in these cars from what I have heard from other owners.
When new, our 16kWh i-MiEVs were readily capable of significantly exceeding the U.S. EPA overall rating of 62 miles (100km). Now, ten years later, >20% LEV50 battery degradation is common. LEV50N battery packs are presumably doing better.

With what you said, a 10.5kWh SCiB i-MiEV driven at relatively low speeds should now certainly match or exceed the LEV50 higher-capacity packs.

Is it possible to corroborate the Wikipedia statement that the SCiB battery packs were indeed only 10.5kWh?

Back to the OP (@Vinyl), sounds as though it may be tough for you to find a JDM "M" version i-MiEV to import.
 
JoeS said:
With what you said, a 10.5kWh SCiB i-MiEV driven at relatively low speeds should now certainly match or exceed the LEV50 higher-capacity packs.

Is it possible to corroborate the Wikipedia statement that the SCiB battery packs were indeed only 10.5kWh?
Yes, Wikipedia is correct that the SCiB battery packs are in fact only 10.5kWh. I even happen to even have a photo of the brochure from when I went for a test drive in the i-MiEV for the first time! The rated range is 120km according to Mitsubishi, but this is against the now outdated JC08 Cycle. Perhaps the increased efficiency is due to power to the motor being restricted to 30 kW compared to 47 kW in the 16kWh version.

k6u4sDv.jpg


Another thing I forgot to mention - the easiest way to distinguish the "M" model from the others is simply from their use of halogen bulbs.
You can see in the brochure picture that the indicators are clear using LEDs on the "X", while they are orange on the "M".
 
JoeS said:
miggols99, thank you for this! From what year is that brochure?

I am not completely sure what year it is, but the model names go like this:

2009-2010: Base Grade (16kWh)
2011-2012: G (16kWh), M (10.5kWh)
2013-2016: X (16kWh), M (10.5kWh)
2017~: X (16kWh)

So it is most likely from around 2013-14.
 
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