bradleydavidgood777
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Re: 240V Charging and Extension cables (Amazing-E)

wmcbrine wrote:
bradleydavidgood777 wrote:That's a good idea about removing the ground.
I said NEUTRAL, not GROUND.
Yes I'm sorry about that, I understand the difference but have been confusing it when reading for some reason.
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bradleydavidgood777
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Re: 240V Charging and Extension cables (Amazing-E)

So Don,

Lets stay with your "Transfer switch before the dryer option" for now. And knowing that we can remove the NEUTRAL pin from the AmazingE means we can use it with any type of connector or outdoor cord right?

What outdoor cord would I use? I guess I could use the existing 100 foot 10 gauge 120V cord I'm using now right? Hot Hot ground is all we need. And would I cut off the existing plug from the AmazingE and replace it with another type like locking? Or maybe I could find an outdoor 14-30R to go on the end of the extension cord? I could not find that on the web so if anyone knows where to find it I would love that.

I like the dryer option of putting a transfer switch before the dryer. Then I could effectively "turn off" the cable to the outside near the car for safety because it could deliver a good shock to a child. But the dryer is in the back of the house so this would add another 35-40 feet to the outdoor cable making it about 80 feet. So the transfer switch would go before the dryer, then from the transfer switch, one leg goes to the dryer, and one to a new box with a pair of 20A fuses or breakers. Then out of that box could I just run the outdoor cable thru the wall? This would eliminate the need for an outdoor box. The other benefit of this option is that the wall to the outside is just wallboard not thick brick like the front of the house option.
Last edited by bradleydavidgood777 on Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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wmcbrine
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Re: 240V Charging and Extension cables (Amazing-E)

Don wrote:This is the first EVSE that I'm aware of that requires 4 wires to operate - I've never seen any others that come with anything other than a 3 pin plug.
There are many, many EVSEs that come with 4-pin plugs (most commonly the 14-50). But generally, their neutral is unconnected. I see no sign that the AmazingE is different -- they state that it needs a ground, don't mention neutral, and correctly point out that NEMA 10-* are obsolete, and that neutral and ground are not interchangeable, in principle (although you may be able to make it work in practice).

The EVSEs that come with 3-pin plugs are hot, hot and ground (e.g. NEMA 6-50), which is no more compatible with a 10-30's hot/hot/neutral than is a 4-pin plug.
bradleydavidgood777
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Re: 240V Charging and Extension cables (Amazing-E)

wmcbrine wrote:
Don wrote:This is the first EVSE that I'm aware of that requires 4 wires to operate - I've never seen any others that come with anything other than a 3 pin plug.
There are many, many EVSEs that come with 4-pin plugs (most commonly the 14-50). But generally, their neutral is unconnected. I see no sign that the AmazingE is different -- they state that it needs a ground, don't mention neutral, and correctly point out that NEMA 10-* are obsolete, and that neutral and ground are not interchangeable, in principle (although you may be able to make it work in practice).

The EVSEs that come with 3-pin plugs are hot, hot and ground (e.g. NEMA 6-50), which is no more compatible with a 10-30's hot/hot/neutral than is a 4-pin plug.
Thanks wmcbrine,

So what would you do in my situation?

If neutral and ground go to the same place on the panel than what makes them NOT INTERCHANGABLE?

If I would replace my dryer receptacle with a 4 prong and plug the AmazingE into it, the ground of the AmazingE would terminate at the panel neutral bar. If I don't upgrade my dryer receptacle and use the 3 wires that I have and wire the ground on the EVSE to the neutral wire, it will terminate at the panel neutral bar. In both situations, the ground has it's own dedicated path, so I see no difference in flow at all and no difference in safety.
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bradleydavidgood777
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Re: 240V Charging and Extension cables (Amazing-E)

JoeS wrote:Further confusing the issue, bradleydavidgood77, you keep interjecting the NEMA 10-50 connector.
Joe - Thank you for pointing this out. I meant 14-50 not 10-50. I have corrected it in all of the previous posts.
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Don
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Re: 240V Charging and Extension cables (Amazing-E)

bradleydavidgood777 wrote:Thanks Don,

That is an interesting option but I don't have any outlets near the car. Just one out back.
So - You have one 120 volt outlet near the car? Probably the one you've been using for L1 charging??

Is that outlet on it's own breaker?? - If so, you have a really, really easy solution to your L2 charging problems

Cross your fingers and hope you get lucky! Find the breaker for that outlet, turn it off and see if you lose power to any other outlets or loads. If not, we're in business for sure!

Report back when you know for sure

Don
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JoeS
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Re: 240V Charging and Extension cables (Amazing-E)

bradleydavidgood777, to better understand the connector wiring, google "nema wiring chart" which will show you the myriad of ways every connector should be wired.

Three-wire 240vac circuits utilize HOT-HOT-GROUND.

The reason the US code was changed to require four-wire instead of three-wire 240vac circuits is that many 240vac appliances started using 120vac (one leg of the input) for their control circuitry, which resulted in current flow in the ground wire. With the change, 120vac current flow is now properly routed through the Neutral wire back to the service panel, maintaining the sefety integrity of the separate ground wire.

As we said earlier, 240vac EVSEs normally only use the two hot wires, with a safety ground. Some confusion was interjected into this discussion regarding the Amazing-E and its internal configuration. I am not surprised that the Neutral connection is unused on the Amazing-E. As was pointed out, cutting off the Neutral pin will allow this connector to plug into either a 14-30 or 14-50 outlet, and you can make a simple adapter to plug it into your old-style 10-30 dryer outlet.

Bottom line, it appears that all you need to bring out is three wires: Hot-Hot-Ground
Don wrote:Is that outlet on it's own breaker?? - If so, you have a really, really easy solution to your L2 charging problems
:geek:
EVs: Two '12 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 TeslaMS85, three 156v CorbinSparrowsLi(NMC), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conversions: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab96, 48v1kW bike
RIP(2021) ICE: Orig.Owner '67 Saab96V4, '88 IsuzuTrooper; '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV
bradleydavidgood777
Posts: 249
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:55 am
Location: Media, PA

Re: 240V Charging and Extension cables (Amazing-E)

Don wrote:
bradleydavidgood777 wrote:Thanks Don,
So - You have one 120 volt outlet near the car? Probably the one you've been using for L1 charging??
Is that outlet on it's own breaker?? - If so, you have a really, really easy solution to your L2 charging problems
Don
The outside outlet is not near the car. It is in the back of the house. I use it to charge currently with this cord:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0163 ... UTF8&psc=1

I forgot to cross my fingers but went and checked the panel where I have everything labeled very well. That breaker has many other things on it. Plus I use that outlet all of the time for stuff outside on the patio and yard.

I see where you were going though. Good idea.
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bradleydavidgood777
Posts: 249
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:55 am
Location: Media, PA

Re: 240V Charging and Extension cables (Amazing-E)

JoeS wrote:bradleydavidgood777, to better understand the connector wiring, google "nema wiring chart" which will show you the myriad of ways every connector should be wired.

Three-wire 240vac circuits utilize HOT-HOT-GROUND.

The reason the US code was changed to require four-wire instead of three-wire 240vac circuits is that many 240vac appliances started using 120vac (one leg of the input) for their control circuitry, which resulted in current flow in the ground wire. With the change, 120vac current flow is now properly routed through the Neutral wire back to the service panel, maintaining the sefety integrity of the separate ground wire.

As we said earlier, 240vac EVSEs normally only use the two hot wires, with a safety ground. Some confusion was interjected into this discussion regarding the Amazing-E and its internal configuration. I am not surprised that the Neutral connection is unused on the Amazing-E. As was pointed out, cutting off the Neutral pin will allow this connector to plug into either a 14-30 or 14-50 outlet, and you can make a simple adapter to plug it into your old-style 10-30 dryer outlet.

Bottom line, it appears that all you need to bring out is three wires: Hot-Hot-Ground
Don wrote:Is that outlet on it's own breaker?? - If so, you have a really, really easy solution to your L2 charging problems
:geek:

Joe - Thanks, the NEMA wiring chart search is very helpful. I think I understand the wiring and now just need to understand the parts and connectors to use. I can't plug into the dryer outlet because its 90 feet from the car. So the EVSE has to plug into a connector that is right by the car on the end of a cord and waterproof. I have 2 10 gauge 120V cords now. 50 foot and 100 foot. I could use one of those for the new configuration if I replace the connectors...the question is - with what? Because I have not found a connector that would work out there at the end of the cord by the car.
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JoeS
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Re: 240V Charging and Extension cables (Amazing-E)

bradleydavidgood777 wrote:...So the EVSE has to plug into a connector that is right by the car on the end of a cord and waterproof. I have 2 10 gauge 120V cords now. 50 foot and 100 foot. I could use one of those for the new configuration if I replace the connectors...the question is - with what? Because I have not found a connector that would work out there at the end of the cord by the car.
Let's go back a step. Don had suggested modifying the existing 120vac outlet line that you are presently using and converting that line to 240vac, if it is a dedicated line with its own circuit breaker. Is this what you intend to do?
EVs: Two '12 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 TeslaMS85, three 156v CorbinSparrowsLi(NMC), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conversions: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab96, 48v1kW bike
RIP(2021) ICE: Orig.Owner '67 Saab96V4, '88 IsuzuTrooper; '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

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