Instant Heat... so far

I haven't had my I-MiEV for a winter yet but I'm trying to prepare. I read on this forum from some members that it isn't great for interior heat. With the cold weather in my area now (upstate New York) I have noticed the heat is not that bad but takes a while to heat up if you are not pre-heating while plugged in. I installed a 12 Volt heater in the I-MiEV today. it just plugs into the 12V power outlet. I'm using it just as instant heat while the car heater is coming up to temperature. When the car heater gets warm (about 10 minutes) then I turn off the add-on heater and continue with the car heater to heat the cabin. I tried it out today at 27 degrees and it seemed to work pretty good. I made a temporary mount for it in the cup holder out of a beer can just to try it out. if it continues to work ok I will make a much nicer looking mount for it.

I'm in Albany and I get by with a heated vest, a warm coat and the seat heater until the car heater warms up. And I find that even in very cold weather the car heater warms up pretty quickly. Because of the vest and seat heater, I find I don't need to whole cabin warmed up to feel comfortable, as long as I feel warm air blowing on me I'm ok.

Tony

I bought one of those $10 heater/defrosters a couple weeks ago - I'm hoping it will provide enough heat to keep the windshield de-fogged without needing to run the car's heater, but I'm not so sure. It only produces about 150 watts of heat (roughly 10% of a standard household plug in ceramic heater) and that would seem to be a drop in the bucket for a car interior on a 27 degree morning. Preheating the car with the EVSE will do lots more and that way you leave home with a heater system full of hot water which can save you several miles of range

I like your innovative mounting system. I've been trying to decide how to mount mine and I'm going to give that a try. Thanks for sharing!

Don

Preheating the car with the EVSE will do lots more and that way you leave home with a heater system full of hot water which can save you several miles of range

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If only we could keep the circulating pump running in the heater loop. Then we could use preheat to warm up a 5 liter "thermos bottle". This would work good with no fan (or 1 click on) with fresh air to the windshield with an insulated heating system. Right now, I keep fresh air to the windshield with no fan, and that can pretty quickly cool the interior since the pump only runs with the heater on.

Don said:

I bought one of those $10 heater/defrosters a couple weeks ago - I'm hoping it will provide enough heat to keep the windshield de-fogged without needing to run the car's heater, but I'm not so sure. It only produces about 150 watts of heat (roughly 10% of a standard household plug in ceramic heater) and that would seem to be a drop in the bucket for a car interior on a 27 degree morning. Preheating the car with the EVSE will do lots more and that way you leave home with a heater system full of hot water which can save you several miles of range

I like your innovative mounting system. I've been trying to decide how to mount mine and I'm going to give that a try. Thanks for sharing!

Don

Click to expand...

I purchased this heater for the times I cannot pre-heat the cabin with the EVSE. I figure I can get in the car and fire this little heater up while the car heater gets warm and then shut down the small add-on heater. Maybe I'm just better off starting the car ahead of time and let it warm up since I really don't have to worry about lost range from the heater. My round trip to work is 20 miles.

PV1 said:

If only we could keep the circulating pump running in the heater loop. Then we could use preheat to warm up a 5 liter "thermos bottle". This would work good with no fan (or 1 click on) with fresh air to the windshield with an insulated heating system. Right now, I keep fresh air to the windshield with no fan, and that can pretty quickly cool the interior since the pump only runs with the heater on.

Click to expand...

To avoid hacking the stock pump controls, what about adding a second circ pump in series, including it's own heater element, with or without a storage tank? That would enable one to preheat without losing SOC even while charging on 120V (on a second circuit). (And using a simple timer, not the remote.) Adding a storage tank would store heat more effectively than adding battery capacity, as discussed in other threads.

The cheap $60 'coolant circulating heaters' are just thermosyphons, which would take careful locating and still might not work as well. It takes several time$ that for a good circulating pump plus thermostatically-controlled coolant heater. I use the pump featured in the following heater kit for my EV conversion. http://www.evsource.com/tls_heaters.php

I forgot our heater yesterday. It is a 2 kW fan and heater working from 230V DC. Temperature was 34 C or 94 F. Temperature outside was some 5 C or 41 F. Until my wife came and I had unplugged and stored our cables it lost a bit but it was a nice ride without heating and without feeling cold.

No doubt, our car and batteries do store some heat somewhere. On our ride home I used full heat to keep the windows unfogged. I did not take much energy from the battery. But this morning I noticed temperature outside has climbed to 7 C or 45 F as well. Maybe our fan did it?

Cheers
Peter and Karin

tonymil said:

I'm in Albany and I get by with a heated vest, a warm coat and the seat heater until the car heater warms up. And I find that even in very cold weather the car heater warms up pretty quickly. Because of the vest and seat heater, I find I don't need to whole cabin warmed up to feel comfortable, as long as I feel warm air blowing on me I'm ok.

Tony

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Tony, where did you purchase the heated vest?

Lots of them on eBay. Motorcyclists have been using heated garments for years. I can understand the need for them with 50 or 60 mph of wind carrying away your body heat - Even the best, most expensive insulated clothing will not keep you warm under those conditions

But, inside a car with zero wind chill on your body, electrically heated clothing seems a bit of an overkill, IMO. A fairly inexpensive ski jacket should keep you toasty under those conditions. Now, a pair of electric socks would probably be a good investment

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Warm-Safe-12v-Heated-socks-for-motorcycle-ATV-snowmobile-/360559383241?pt=Apparel_Merchandise&var=&hash=item53f30392c9&vxp=mtr

Keeping your toes warm is much harder than keeping your torso warm

Don

gmarcucio said:

Tony, where did you purchase the heated vest?

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This is what I bought. I can't remember which internet site I bought it from but it cost about $100.

http://voltheat.com/product/torso-3v-heated-vest-liner/

My only complaint is that the battery doesn't have a meter to tell you how much charge you have left. I think the newer models may have that, the site is selling backup batteries with a meter.

PV1 said:

If only we could keep the circulating pump running in the heater loop...

Click to expand...

The water pump is operated by applying 12V to a relay located on the left (passenger) side under the front hood. Since the pump does not draw too much power, you may as well wire direct from battery and install switch inside somewhere on the dash.
However, water is not efficient energy storage and you would have to use antifreeze anyway. It would be very challenging trying to fit 5L thermo in proximity of the heater circuit. Maybe 1/2 of it can be accomplished by increasing the size of the reservoir in the front.

I wonder if anyone has ever tried battery heated socks?

tonymil said:

I'm in Albany and I get by with a heated vest, a warm coat and the seat heater until the car heater warms up. And I find that even in very cold weather the car heater warms up pretty quickly. Because of the vest and seat heater, I find I don't need to whole cabin warmed up to feel comfortable, as long as I feel warm air blowing on me I'm ok.

Tony

Click to expand...

I tried battery heated sock with little satisfaction - might be the quality , but they were not enough and uncomfortable to walk with .
DonD and some others have tried battery or 12v (accessory plugged in) heated shoe insoles & were are satisfied, Some also complained they're uncomfortable to walk with.

jaraczs said:

PV1 said:

If only we could keep the circulating pump running in the heater loop...

Click to expand...

The water pump is operated by applying 12V to a relay located on the left (passenger) side under the front hood. Since the pump does not draw too much power, you may as well wire direct from battery and install switch inside somewhere on the dash.
However, water is not efficient energy storage and you would have to use antifreeze anyway. It would be very challenging trying to fit 5L thermo in proximity of the heater circuit. Maybe 1/2 of it can be accomplished by increasing the size of the reservoir in the front.

Click to expand...

Jaracz, I like that idea of a secondary switch to keep the circ pump running (preferably with a time delay to keep it from killing the 12V battery), and that would work with a supplemental reservoir. However, why would you say that water is not efficient energy storage? There's very few better options, even without a phase change. Sure, adding antifreeze costs a few points, but it's better for heat storage than added battery capacity. I ran those numbers a year or so ago, but am not finding them right now. Only thing more practical could be plumbing the water loop through a tank of paraffin that solidifies between 70 and 100 degrees F, so as to recover the latent heat.

BenBrown said:

I wonder if anyone has ever tried battery heated socks?

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Haven't needed them.
In the winter here in Idaho Falls, my wife and I have rarely used the heater. And we might use the heated seat once/year. Heated seats are not a commodity for us. Some tips:
1. My wife put heat reflective foam on the seats. This is basic egg-crate packing foam. Then she put a towel over that (it ties down to the seat to keep everything from moving). The gluteal never gets cold. And the car becomes cushier. And in the summer, this cushion was breathable enough to eliminate sweat.
2. In the winter we always wear a very thin layer of long johns all day. It keeps us warm in the car and we don’t get a cold shock when getting out of the car. It also keeps us comfortable in buildings (if it stays <70F).
3. Wear down gloves. They’re light and comfy. Then we don’t get a cold shock when getting out of the car to go in the store.
4. Wear a light hat. Then we don’t get a cold shock when getting out of the car to go in the store.
5. Buy a nice 8oz down coat. We don’t even feel it on. If it drops to 0F add an 8oz fleece jacket underneath. You don’t need an electric vest or electric blanket. Down coats can handle a very wide range of temperatures.
6. Use the defroster for 15-60 seconds at a time. That’s all it takes to clear the window.
7. Use -40F windshield fluid.
8. Wear a comfortable boot. I’ve loved my down North Face Nuptse Boot. It’s not uncommon to see people walk in boots all day. However, at work I do switch out to sandals. Ironically my boots are lighter than the sandals. I wear a thin layer of sock followed by a thick wool sock that I will change once/week. I change the liner sock every day.
9. I do store the iMiev in a garage that stays at 40F.
10. If it super cold (<10F), I also wear a balaclava. Not only does this keep my face warm but keeps the breath off the windows. And I don’t get a cold shock when I get out of the car.


-Barry

Barry,

Thanks for those tips... Today on the advice of another forum member I parked the car in the sun while running an errand. It made a huge difference and better than pre-heating in our very sunny 23 degree weather. Felt like 70 inside the car.

I think I will look at floor insulation if it looks like we are going to get another cold snap in the next couple of weeks. I may see about feet warmers, but if its not in the teens. At that temperature my feet don't seem to notice the cold so much.

I will look into the boots you mentioned. I've been challenged trying to find boots for my delicate size 12 5E feet. Farming, I use to purchase the 'Mickey Mouse' over sized boots with inflatable air insulation.. I'm not sure how easily they would fit beneath the steering wheel/dash.

As far as I can see, insulation looks like the best overall bang for the buck and effort. I wonder if anyone has put serious thought into how much of a difference it makes or not? It's probably too late this year for a fair test...

BarryP said:

BenBrown said:

I wonder if anyone has ever tried battery heated socks?

Click to expand...

Haven't needed them...
3. Wear down gloves. They’re light and comfy. Then we don’t get a cold shock when getting out of the car to go in the store.
6. Use the defroster for 15-60 seconds at a time. That’s all it takes to clear the window.
7. Use -40F windshield fluid.
8. Wear a comfortable boot. I’ve loved my down North Face Nuptse Boot. It’s not uncommon to see people walk in boots all day. However, at work I do switch out to sandals. Ironically my boots are lighter than the sandals. I wear a thin layer of sock followed by a thick wool sock that I will change once/week. I change the liner sock every day.

-Barry

Click to expand...

BenBrown said:

Today on the advice of another forum member I parked the car in the sun while running an errand. It made a huge difference and better than pre-heating in our very sunny 23 degree weather. Felt like 70 inside the car.

Click to expand...

Yep. At work, I park facing south in the cooler half of the year, and facing north in the warmer half. I've registered 70°+ F in the cupholder on 15° F days, warm enough to go without the heated seat for a while. Too bad the floor is still cold. A mirror may help with that :mrgreen: .

Passive solar's good when you have it. I have to wonder how well a reflective radiant barrier designed for under the roof of homes would hold up beneath the floorboard, though.

I hope that as the cost of batteries will decrease, it will be effective for manufacturers to throw money into overall thermal management. Solar heating is a good idea in the Winter but we have to bear in mind that the vehicle is meant to be used all year around, including those hot days in the Summer when you will be asking for measures preventing solar heating. This is the reason why Enerlogic film won't work because it blocks solar heating.
However, the dash is a good opportunity for implementation of system that would be reflective in the Summer but dark in the Winter. Yet, you can't have reflective dash as you drive because the light would bounce from the windshield to the driver, significantly worsening the sight (safety problem). The heat in the Winter could be actively distributed to the cabin (floor) and even into the battery if it is justified. The benefit would be available only on sunny days, irrespective of the outdoor temperature.

PV1 said:

Yep. At work, I park facing south in the cooler half of the year, and facing north in the warmer half. I've registered 70°+ F in the cupholder on 15° F days, warm enough to go without the heated seat for a while. Too bad the floor is still cold. A mirror may help with that :mrgreen: .

Click to expand...

Until someone had mentioned the amount of warmth the car could gain I had dismissed it as not that much of an impact. Likewise I'm thinking putting in an insulation barrier between my feet and the floor will make a big difference to my feet and I shouldn't have to remove carpeting to do that...

I'll try my first experiment Monday and try to report back soon...