Cold Weather Chart

nt2w · Sep 26, 2012

Hi all-

The leaves are falling in northern New York and we're looking at frost any day now.

It brings me to start thinking of winter conditions, specifically low-temperature considerations for the i.

I tried my hand at putting together a "Low Temperature Reference Chart," which pulls together information from three different pages in the i manual.

It's crude, but useful in explaining what will happen when the thermometer drops below 5F. I tried to illustrate going from green to yellow to orange to pink (red doesn't reproduce well).

It would be nice if someone graphically inclined could put something together that was a little more slick, but here's the "first draft!"

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B0RqdvINrwPlMWFJdm40d1drR0E

sandange · Sep 27, 2012

I Like what you've done there nt2w

Might take a shot at it but I'm tight for time at the moment, do modify or improve it in rough draft if you can for now.
Sandy

MLucas · Sep 27, 2012

Here's my attempt at it. Thanks for putting this together, nt2w.

sandange · Sep 27, 2012

Nice work guys

A couple of questions -- at -30c it indicates the battery warmer is off and car will not charge

Does this mean "IF the battery warmer is off" that the batteries will freeze and not charge

Why would the battery warmer be off- " due to depleted drive battery? & or not having been plugged in at those temperatures?

Or

Does the battery warmer stop working at those temperatures?

nt2w · Sep 27, 2012

MLucas said:
Here's my attempt at it. Thanks for putting this together, nt2w.

Very nice! Clearly you have the knack for something like this, and I got a real chuckle from the skull-n-bones, which pretty much sums it up at -30C.

Couple editorials: first off, "Celsius" needs to be correctly spelled. Second, according to the manual, the battery warmer cuts off at -15C, not -20. Also, the 30% power reduction kicks in at -15C, not -20. Finally, in addition to the 30% or 50% power reduction, the manual indicates a reduction in regenerative braking at these points as well, if there's a way to indicate reduced regen below -15C, that would be good.

Again, this is fabulous and exactly what I had in mind! Thanks for lending your creative touch!

Think warm thoughts....

Rich

nt2w · Sep 27, 2012

sandange said:
Nice work guys

A couple of questions -- at -30c it indicates the battery warmer is off and car will not charge

Does this mean "IF the battery warmer is off" that the batteries will freeze and not charge

Why would the battery warmer be off- " due to depleted drive battery? & or not having been plugged in at those temperatures?

Or

Does the battery warmer stop working at those temperatures?

I guess the easiest answer is that, according to the manual, at -30C, nothing works and you need to flatbed the car to somewhere warm.

The manual doesn't explain why nothing works below -30, but it indicates that the battery warmer kicks in when the car is plugged in to charge and the temperature is below -25C, and that it uses the car's heater, supplied by the EVSE, to bring the battery up to -20 before it shuts the heat off. I'm assuming from this that the battery wants to be above -20C, or about 0F to accept charge current.

As far as why the battery warmer won't work, I can't understand it either :? Maybe it's that Mitsubishi figures the little ceramic heater isn't up to the task of bringing a relatively large thermal mass (the battery) up from a temp that low.

As with other things in the manual, the way it's WRITTEN may well not be exactly the way it works in PRACTICE-- something may have gotten lost in the translation!

MLucas · Sep 28, 2012

Thank you for the feedback! I knew something didn't look right about the word celsius, oops. It's closer this time, feel free to send me more feedback, I'm used to this kind of thing. I'm a software engineer and can do a bit of hair and makeup on the business productivity systems I develop.

(See my original posting to this thread, I simply edited it with the new chart). Feel free to do what you want with it, I'm not claiming any copyright on this.

About operating the car below -30c. Maybe the car is smarter than an operator that would want to go out in that kind of temperature. :shock:

sandange · Sep 28, 2012

About operating the car below -30c. Maybe the car is smarter than an operator that would want to go out in that kind of temperature.

Yes I agree, Who would want to.
But in our neck of the woods sometimes you have to in these conditions.
Might need to get to work or for an emergency to a hospital.

I'll be putting the car in the garage on those cold days.

nt2w · Sep 28, 2012

MLucas said:
Thank you for the feedback! I knew something didn't look right about the word celsius, oops. It's closer this time, feel free to send me more feedback, I'm used to this kind of thing. I'm a software engineer and can do a bit of hair and makeup on the business productivity systems I develop.

(See my original posting to this thread, I simply edited it with the new chart). Feel free to do what you want with it, I'm not claiming any copyright on this.

About operating the car below -30c. Maybe the car is smarter than an operator that would want to go out in that kind of temperature. :shock:

Sweet- this is the chart that Mitsubishi should have included in the manual. One last nitpick- now that "Celsius" is fixed, need to fix "Fahrenheit" (much harder word

) Oh, and there's a remnant of your mouse pointer in the upper left!

Thanks again for your efforts. Still like the skull-n-bones.... arrrrrrr!

You, Sandange and I are all roughly at the same latitude--- we'll see what this winter brings! I always joke that summer in the North Country is just two weeks of lousy ice skating!

Rich

nt2w · Sep 28, 2012

sandange said:
About operating the car below -30c. Maybe the car is smarter than an operator that would want to go out in that kind of temperature.

Click to expand...

Yes I agree, Who would want to.
But in our neck of the woods sometimes you have to in these conditions.
Might need to get to work or for an emergency to a hospital.

I'll be putting the car in the garage on those cold days.

-30 has been pretty rare up here the last few years, but not unheard of. I checked my records for winter '11 and '12.

I had seven days in '11 below -20C (two were below -25C with a low of -32.2C- the only one below -30- on 24 Jan 2011).

Winter '12 was wimpy, with NO days below -20C- the lowest temp in 2012 (so far...) was -19.4C on 3 Jan 2012.

Even on the coldest days, my garage only gets down to about 10F (call it -10 ish Celsius), so charging shouldn't be a problem... more likely an issue with leaving my car in the parking lot at -20C all day, and driving home. We'll see.

At least there are no mosquitoes or black flies at that temperature....

sandange · Sep 29, 2012

nt2w

You motivated me to look up some weather stats for our local

MLucas · Oct 1, 2012

Fixed and updated.

MLucas · Oct 1, 2012

Sandage - you are definitely going to experience several levels of this low temp chart. Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Here in Niagara Falls we have much milder temperatures (from Weather.Ca).

nt2w · Oct 1, 2012

MLucas said:
Fixed and updated.

This is fabulous--- again, many thanks!

nt2w · Oct 1, 2012

sandange said:
nt2w

You motivated me to look up some weather stats for our local

Hmm.... confirming what I know from my February visits to Ste-Emile-de-Suffolk, ta***nak, c'est froid la!

Although, I see that the 30 year period is 1971-2000, which does not include the warmest 10 years in recorded history here in North America.... I'm guessing statistics would skew notably if they were taken from 1981-2010.

Earlier in the thread, I made the rather naive observation that you, me and MLucas were at similar latitudes... not all that similar temperature-wise, apparently! :shock:

Looks like I don't have the knowledge to create a table... oh well, here are raw figures in degrees C... Potsdam figures from weather.com and US National Weather Service...

Place Dec Avg Low Jan Avg Low Feb Avg Low Dec Min Jan Min Feb Min
St-Anne-Des-Lacs -15 -19 -17 -35 -37 -37
Potsdam -9 -14 -13 -38 -41 -40
Niagara-on-the-Lake -5 -8 -7 -20 -26 -21

MLucas · Oct 2, 2012

Oddly enough, NOTL is the warmest. I know we are in a warmer plant hardiness category of 6a (-10 to -5 F). That is what allows this area to grow certain tender fruits and grapes. Big wine producing area around where I live. Potsdam, NY is Zone 4b (-25 to -20 F). Ste Agetha Des Monts is in Zone 3b ( -35 to -30 degrees F or -34.5 to -37.2 degrees C ). I hate cold weather no matter what, so this only warms my heart a little.

About making a table, I have a program I use called Snag-It that allows me to capture portions of the computer screen and convert it into an image. I can take chunks of websites and blend pieces together and add enhancements. I made the low temp chart using Excel, then turned off the gridlines and captured the chart, leaving behind all the tool and scroll bars. Its the tools that make it easy.

You can always make a table in Excel, then click on Print Screen. Paste the results in something like Paint and then crop out what you don't want. That is if you are a PC user. For Apple stuff, I don't have a clue on that - never use that stuff. I'm sure someone in the forum can tell you how.

joev · Nov 25, 2012

Hello All,
Now that the weather has gotten cooler (40F at night 60F day) I have noticed a reduction in range (car stays in a garage at night).

Same driving habits, conditions, heat and A/C usage (don’t use either).

Was getting 5.5 to 6 miles/kW now getting 4.5 to 5 miles/kW.

Is this normal? Do Li-lon batteries have a reduced capacity when cold?

Anyone else notice a drop in range not related to using the heat or A/C?

I'm not in the temperature range of the "cold weather chart" yet so I was not expecting a drop in range.
Thanks!

peterdambier · Nov 25, 2012

I should not call it "frette" like in Quebec but this year winter started with the end of october here in the Rhine valley, southern germany.

Driving during day may be fine or not, but at night and charging in the wild can be awfully cold, around freezing and the window keeps fogging.

We used to see ranges of up to 164 kilometers mostly more than 120 kilometers when it was warmer. Now we get between 80 and 120 but below 100 mostly. I guess charging in the cold makes a difference and maybe the state of the 12V battery. I have seen when not fully charged, the display changed up one bar as soon as I turned the key to "ready".

MLucas · Nov 25, 2012

Yes, seeing some reduced range but I'm using the heat and the wind is gustier. I preheat the car using the remote and I also garage the car at night. I usually can make it into Buffalo, NY from Niagara on the Lake, ON on six bars off the power meter during the summer months (43km/27miles). I don't want to say six kilowatts because the power meter is not granualar enough to know exactly how much I'm using. Now its getting colder, I'm usually consuming between 7 and 8 bars off the power meter. My speed is usually about 90km/55mph which is below the posted limit of 100km with only one hill climb and the rest is relatively flat. The temperature has been fairly consistent at 2-3 C/34F (apr). This seems consistent with what I expect for colder temp EV driving.

What you are seeing seems about right for Li-Ion batteries. The battery chemistry slows down in colder weather, thus the reduced power output. The good news is this is not harmful to Li-Ion batteries and they will return to their normal power output when the warmer temperatures return.

joev · Nov 25, 2012

Ahhh or should I say Burrrr......
Thanks! The i community is the best!
Makes me feel more comfortable now knowing what to expect.

Cold Weather Chart

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