Regeneration and Brake Lights

jray3 · Nov 13, 2014

Congrats, Monty. many of us would prefer to have the brake lights flash under heavy regen, but they don't and I don't recall hearing of a rear end collision yet...
I'm interested in trying an inertial brake light device like http://www.lucidbrake.com/HowToOrder.php
They give a 30% discount, yielding a $49 price for group orders of 10+, and will add custom logos for group orders. any takers?

sandange · Nov 13, 2014

Jray3 - Thanks for bring this up

Very interesting safety idea! - I would possibly be interested.
but brings up a lot of questions

Would this be considered a regenerating warning light ?

Do any EVs already have a regenerating warning light as OE?

If so what is their configuration?

If not

Would this light be Legal?
Where would you place it - under the 3rd brake light on the rear glass?
What text would you apply to the light "REGENERATING"? or a universal Icon
What color would the lights be ? BLUE?
How bright would it be
Would it work in extreme cold temperatures
are the batteries replaceable?

Moderators
If there's more interest might be worthy of a separate posting

PV1 · Nov 13, 2014

Do any EVs already have a regenerating warning light as OE?

If so what is their configuration?

Tesla Roadster, Tesla Model S, and BMW i3. Regen lights up the standard brake lights just like pushing the brake pedal. It's a necessity on these vehicles since you can bring them to a complete stop without touching the brake pedal.

JoeS · Nov 13, 2014

ok, I've moved this discussion into this new thread.

This topic has been around from the very beginning of this forum.

Brake-light activation is governed by a myriad of national and international regulations, many specifying a deceleration rate beyond which the brake light needs to turn on. Brake light positioning and color are of course covered as well.

This has been a popular topic on many EV and hybrid forums. For example, here's an entry from the Volt forum (http://gm-volt.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-15653.html):

The regulatation for Stop Lamp Illumination has been cited before (http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?14515-Safer-brake-lights&p=158858#post158858). Here is the table provided by Section 5.2.22.4 of United Nations Addendum 12-H: Regulation No. 13-H Revision 2, "Uniform provisions concerning the approval of passenger cars with regard to braking," (http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/main/wp29/wp29regs/R13hr2e.pdf, page 22):

Electric regenerative braking systems as defined in paragraph 2.17., which produce a retarding force upon release of the accelerator control, shall generate the signal mentioned above according to the following provisions:

<= 0.7 m/s/s The signal shall not be generated
> 0.7 m/s/s and <= 1.3 m/s/s The signal may be generated
> 1.3 m/s/s The signal shall be generated

In all cases the signal shall be de-activated at the latest when the deceleration has fallen below 0.7 m/s/s.

It is my contention that the i-MiEV's deceleration is not much different than that experienced when downshifting a conventional-transmission car.

In my own case, I usually drive with one eye on the rear-view mirror, but have yet to need to tap the brake to turn on the brake light to alert a car behind me that I'm slowing down when regening.

I personally worry about the opposite effect: if the brake lights on all cars were actuated due to a too-slight deceleration, can you imaging how disconcerting that would be? Ever follow some turkey who rode the brakes?

PV1 · Nov 13, 2014

I'm kind of half and half on this. While it's sometimes necessary to have the brake lights on (making the turn into work on most mornings), I enjoy the fact that I can slow down all stealth-like

if I want. I've also proposed the modification of the car to have push-button switches on the throttle pedal and shifter so that no pedals in B mode would activate the brake lights, which is a rather simple circuit, and an on/off switch could be added for personal preference (at your own risk if you perform any mods):

[_] ---------------_------------_----------------_----------- :idea:
Source_____on/off___throttle pedal___shifter___brake lights

Don · Nov 13, 2014

JoeS said:
It is my contention that the i-MiEV's deceleration is not much different than that experienced when downshifting a conventional-transmission car.

My experience is the same - When I drive a manual trans car, I'm usually slowing even faster than our iMiEV does in 'B' Mode and in more than 40 years of doing so, I've never come close to being rear ended . . . . but I too keep a close eye on the mirror whenever I'm slowing by any means

I personally worry about the opposite effect: if the brake lights on all cars were actuated due to a too-slight deceleration, can you imaging how disconcerting that would be? Ever follow some turkey who rode the brakes?

Again, I agree. Since we drive 100% of the time in 'B' mode, a couple years back I went so far as to buy some components intent on flashing the CHMSL whenever regenning more than a certain amount, but I came to the conclusion that it would be more distracting than helpful, so I gave up on the idea

Don

jray3 · Nov 15, 2014

I got this response from LucidBrake about what deceleration rate turns on their light.

Hi Jay,

Good question, although the answer is going to be a little vague. My algorithm adjusts for mounting angle relative to the Earth, and it adjusts on the fly for slopes and hills,whether going up or down. So, the deceleration threshold changes due to conditions at the moment. A simple mercury tilt switch does none of this, and that's partly why LucidBrake works a lot better than a mercury tilt switch. The 0.7 m/s/s is a measure of change in velocity, whereas LucidBrake measures and adjusts for changes in acceleration. That's a technical difference that makes it difficult to pin down changes in velocity accurately. My guess is that LucidBrake would work well during regeneration if the deceleration is noticeable, which it sounds like it is, but that really is just a guess.

Thanks,
John

JohnClarkCraig.com
LucidLights.com
LucidBrake.com
WritersSummit.com
BooksToBelieveIn.com
ForTheWealthOfAll.com

sandange · Nov 15, 2014

I guess the only way to be sure is to get one and test it.
It would be great if there was a a sensitivity adjustment on the unit

azemon · Nov 15, 2014

Folks,

I am going to buy a LucidBrake for my i-MiEV. Are you interested in a group-buy, which will bring the cost down to $49 + shipping?

I emailed John Craig (the inventor/owner) and asked him about the blinky mode (which I do not want on a car) and about powering the device from a power supply in the car instead of AAA batteries. I got this response:

You ask some good questions! I have programmed some LucidBrakes to be dark until braking happens, so yes we can turn off the blinky mode. This would be a "special order", but no extra cost....

[Regarding the AAA batteries, the LucidBrake has] been draining the two AAA batteries after a week or so. I'm currently working on a new version of LucidBrake that will solve this issue, but it will take a bit more time.... Either a 5V supply, or even a simple 7805 voltage regulator chip would probably work well to power this version of LucidBrake.

Email me at [email protected] and let me know that you are interested in getting a light as part of this group, which will save you $20, or post a message here with your email address. Cost will be $58 which includes: the LucidBrake ($50) + USPS small Priority Mail box shipping ($6) + PayPal fee (3%). Do not send any money now! I will let you know when I have enough people to make up the order.

Cheers,
-- Art Z.

kiev · May 16, 2015

Did you ever order one and how did it work?

Not mine, but could happen with regen without brake lights and a distracted driver following behind...

Phximiev · May 16, 2015

Is this your recent purchase?

Caused in part by regen braking without brake lights coming on?

Sounds like an issue for Mitsubishi.

JoeS · May 16, 2015

kiev, that photo is reminiscent of what my Gen1 Honda Insight looked like after I was rear-ended by a drunk driver while I was driving steadily in the right lane on a straight Interstate highway in the middle of the day (no deceleration). He had whipped into the right lane from behind a line of cars - had I seen him coming I'd not only have accelerated but activated my warning blinkers as well. There are well-defined national/international criteria for deceleration and brake light actuation which I believe the i-MiEV presently complies with. Stuff happens...

kiev · May 16, 2015

JoeS said:
... had I seen him coming I'd not only have accelerated but activated my warning blinkers as well.

That's a great idea--i had a car honk at me and give me the finger even though i had my turn signal on, but was using regen for braking. Maybe i'll use the emergency flashers next time to get their attention away from texting while driving...

azemon · May 16, 2015

I did not. Only one other person emailed me and I lost interest. But your photo certainly got my attention! What happened? Were you hurt?

-- Art Z.

sandange · May 16, 2015

Kiev - That Photo hurt - Hope you're OK

Azemon - Too bad there was so little interest - If you revive this - I'm in.

PV1 · May 16, 2015

Not sure of the original owner, but that is the wreck i-MiEV that Siai47 purchased a while ago, which ultimately saved another forum member's car from the salvage lots.

wmcbrine · May 17, 2015

So, is this thread basically an argument for driving in D mode?

I've always gone easy on the brakes. I never thought about the effect on the lights. I personally try not to go by the lights of the cars in front of me, but by their actual positions. I've been driving my i-MiEV in Eco since I got it... hmm.

Don · May 18, 2015

wmcbrine said:
So, is this thread basically an argument for driving in D mode?

Not to my way of thinking - 100% of our miles have been done on the B mode since buying the car 3 years ago

Don

Aerowhatt · May 20, 2015

Don said:
wmcbrine said:

So, is this thread basically an argument for driving in D mode?

Click to expand...

Not to my way of thinking - 100% of our miles have been done on the B mode since buying the car 3 years ago

Don

So when slowing down are you feathering the accelerator to control the regen? Seems that just lifting off the regen is too strong for a smooth drive. Could you elaborate briefly on your choice of B mode over the others as a default mode?

Aerowhatt

jray3 · May 20, 2015

I just went ahead and ordered a LucidBrake at $55 after shipping. Will run it inside the car first for some testing. In their video, it came on after the truck brake lights, waiting for actual deceleration rather than just the pedal switch. It also didn't seem to be overly sensitive to bumps, etc. in the video.. I'll probably mount it on a receiver hitch cosmetic cover, which'll make it easy to transfer to our other vehicles for road trips or when carrying a cargo platform.
https://lucidbrake.com

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