redcane
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:21 am

Re: my Miev will not charge

Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:23 pm

mikedufty wrote:Have you looked at the 5 or 6 different threads on it in this forum.
Your experience with the dealer sounds a lot like electronpushers
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=4067
Are you in the same state?

I'd be very reluctant to try the ECU without something firmer.


I've been trawling through this forum. I've read enough to know it's possible opening up a few parts and looking for scorch marks might save me from buying a new part. I hadn't read electronpushers thread yet. I'm in northern NSW.

100% agreed I'd like some more confidence of which part has failed before replacement. I feel like that path could easily be like flushing $1400 down the drain, only to spend $4000 to replace the charger.

mikedufty wrote:Are you a member of the Australian Electrical Vehicle Association? There is a bit of discussion on the AEVA forum too.
<span>One member in Brisbane has just bought a wrecked i-MiEV. He is going to use all the parts to convert a Cortina, but might be willing to let you try swapping some bits for troubleshooting. I guess you are not likely to be nearby if you are 300km from a <a href="http://www.amazon.com/s/?field-keywords=electric%20vehicle%20charger&tag=myelecarfor-20" class="interlinkr" target="_blank">charger</a>.</span>


Yes I'm a member. I started reading this forum first however. I'm about 8 hours drive from Brisbane though it might be worth thinking about borrowing parts.

mikedufty wrote:<span>A few people are trying to pull the <a href="http://www.amazon.com/s/?field-keywords=electric%20vehicle%20charger&tag=myelecarfor-20" class="interlinkr" target="_blank">charger</a>s apart and replace components but I don't know if any have succeeded.</span>
<span>jray3 on this forum and at least one other have succeeded with second hand <a href="http://www.amazon.com/s/?field-keywords=electric%20vehicle%20charger&tag=myelecarfor-20" class="interlinkr" target="_blank">charger</a>s. Their is an imiev being parted out on ebay in the uk at the moment, though I didn't see the charger listed, and they want 1500gbp for the motor ecu, but might be worth looking into.</span>
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/m.html?_ssn= ... =200&rt=nc

From what I read skylogger replaced a resistor and two capacitors and revived a charger. He had a spare car to work with, but also put in a lot of effort, with a lot of help from kiev and coulomb from what I've read.
That link is highly appreciated.

mikedufty wrote:<span>You could also try asking Mitsubishi for a 'goodwill' warranty repair. That is what they say they are doing for us. Haven't said exactly why they approved it, but we had 2 factors in our favour - that the <a href="http://www.amazon.com/s/?field-keywords=electric%20vehicle%20charger&tag=myelecarfor-20" class="interlinkr" target="_blank">charger</a> was only 2 years old, having been replaced in a recall, and that we have an extended warranty certificate from the dealer that sold it.</span>


I have neither of those things. However rather than being assertive with the local dealer, who is subject to the policies of Mitsubishi Australia, maybe I should just contact Mistubishi Australia and plead my case? It sounds like you had a good experience with that?

kiev wrote:P0A09 [DC/DC Converter error (1)] troubleshooting is found here:

http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/i-miev/on ... 300ENG.HTM

i'm always leary of shops that just want to throw parts at a problem hoping to fix it--how is it that the cost of the part has any bearing on the repair if they don't know the root cause? Shame on them, this is the troubleshooting flow chart that they should be using.


It didn't sound right to me at first either. Having followed the troubleshooting process in the service manual, (depending how other stuff checks out) it gets to Step 8 "Replace the on board charger/DC-DC converter" then if that doesn't work it goes to Step 9 "Replace the EV-ECU.". So this seems to reflect what the dealer told me - they are just following Mitsubishi's process. However they have suggested replacing the EV-ECU first as it's a cheaper part...

Really it seems like if they had a spare charger or ev ecu they'd just swap it as a test. The diagnostic process seems entirely based on the idea that you'd have several i-mievs at the dealer, and plenty of spare parts on hand. They don't have any documented process for testing the parts aside from putting them in another car. I don't know if there is any way without specialised equipment to test the parts in isolation?

kiev
Posts: 760
Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 7:15 am
Location: The Heart o' Dixie
Contact: Website

Re: my Miev will not charge

Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:11 pm

Yes but did they actually do all the wiring and connector checks for steps 1-8 ? There is a lot more that can be done to measure what is happening if you are willing to remove the cover screws, take some photos and look for puffy capacitors or blown parts, etc. That is not on the OEM list of things to check, but if you don't have any warranty left, then you have nothing to lose by investigating this on your own.

If the car runs and drives, then the EV-ECU is likely okay, since that is the main controller for the car.

If it doesn't charge, or doesn't make 12V to recharge the aux battery, then that is a function of the DC/DC converter located in the bottom plenum of the charger box. In either case more diagnostics and troubleshooting is needed before throwing expensive parts in an attempt to shotgun it.

What if they didn't actually check the relays and wiring harnesses and connections as per the troubleshooting guide--then you buy an EV-ECU and it doesn't fix it, then a new charger, and it still doesn't work. Well then they will bail out on you and leave you high and dry and broke with a car full on new electronics.

i have seen used EV-ECU on ebay, but they require the dealer to program in the VIN. Chargers do not require VIN.

There are several fuses within the charger and DC/DC converter and the MCU. Those are not covered in the dealer troubleshooting, but those should be inspected to verify that they are good.
kiev = kenny's innovative electric vehicle

mikedufty
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:04 am
Location: Western Australia

Re: my Miev will not charge

Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:04 pm

redcane wrote:I have neither of those things. However rather than being assertive with the local dealer, who is subject to the policies of Mitsubishi Australia, maybe I should just contact Mistubishi Australia and plead my case? It sounds like you had a good experience with that?

As I understand it the dealer put in the goodwill request to Mitsubishi Australia, who then approved it. I imagine you could request the dealer to put in a request, even if they don't think it will be successful, then talk to Mitsubishi Australia about whether they approve it. I have no idea how likely that is to succeed, but am pretty sure it will involve waiting for weeks.

I agree it would be much easier if they had parts in the country, and staff with good knowledge of the vehicles. Hazard of being an early adopter. We don't even have an authorised EV service centre in WA. The current delay for us is waiting weeks for a charger to be shipped from Japan. With the number of failures it seems like it would be a good idea for them to have a couple in stock in the country, but I guess that depends on anyone being willing to pay for them.

redcane
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:21 am

Re: my Miev will not charge

Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:15 am

kiev wrote:Yes but did they actually do all the wiring and connector checks for steps 1-8 ?

They have given me a copy of the steps with their notes on results. I haven't looked at it in detail as yet, but it seems well documented enough that I trust they've done it. I'll still verify what I can before it goes back to them.

kiev wrote:There is a lot more that can be done to measure what is happening if you are willing to remove the cover screws, take some photos and look for puffy capacitors or blown parts, etc. That is not on the OEM list of things to check, but if you don't have any warranty left, then you have nothing to lose by investigating this on your own.
[...]
There are several fuses within the charger and DC/DC converter and the MCU. Those are not covered in the dealer troubleshooting, but those should be inspected to verify that they are good.

Yes, I'll look for anything obvious. Things on my list are the 20A 400V resistor, and the "doghouse" caps. I don't know if there is a good checklist anywhere - I'll have a look across the forums and maybe put one together?

kiev wrote:If the car runs and drives, then the EV-ECU is likely okay, since that is the main controller for the car.

If it doesn't charge, or doesn't make 12V to recharge the aux battery, then that is a function of the DC/DC converter located in the bottom plenum of the charger box. In either case more diagnostics and troubleshooting is needed before throwing expensive parts in an attempt to shotgun it.
What if they didn't actually check the relays and wiring harnesses and connections as per the troubleshooting guide--then you buy an EV-ECU and it doesn't fix it, then a new charger, and it still doesn't work. Well then they will bail out on you and leave you high and dry and broke with a car full on new electronics.
i have seen used EV-ECU on ebay, but they require the dealer to program in the VIN. Chargers do not require VIN.


Yes, I can't see how it is the EV-ECU. Their only logic behind replacing this first is that it is cheaper. I suppose I can ask them to replace the charger first, and accept that if that doesn't fix it they may need to replace the EV-ECU.

It is definitely worth double checking the relays, harnesses and connections before spending any additional money. My assessment is the dealer has been pretty honest with me that it's just a policy they have to follow from head office, and acknowledges that it's not an ideal situation. They don't do any troubleshooting or have any test methods beyond reading the codes and checking the connections. It's a shame they don't refurbish the old parts.

I might ask the dealer if they can program the VIN if I supply the EV-ECU, but I've also read these are write once, and can't be changed.

I don't see our dealer putting in a goodwill request, they seem quite happy to just follow the process. Will are what eventuates after we open up the charger.

coulomb
Posts: 86
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:32 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: my Miev will not charge

Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:12 am

redcane wrote: It's a shame they don't refurbish the old parts.

Indeed. I guess it's a legacy of the ICE procedures; they are made in sufficient quantities that the parts are at least cheap to make (I didn't say cheap to sell), and besides ICE customers are used to forking over money regularly for oil changes and the like.

I might ask the dealer if they can program the VIN if I supply the EV-ECU, but I've also read these are write once, and can't be changed.

I've seen a YouTube video of someone changing the VIN on a car stereo by swapping a programmed surface mount chip (way smaller than a fingernail) with a hot air gun. I think he replaced it with a blank chip, and it was bleeding obvious where the VIN was supposed to go, and he did it with a hex editor or similar. He made it look really easy (if you have the hot air gun, and a special reader/programmer, and are familiar with hex editing, and your laptop can read SD(?) cards). But of course, Mitsubishi may well not have used a separate chip. And of course, you need to know what chip it is, and there may be other vital information in there (not so serious for a car stereo).

So I'm saying that if it's true that it's write-once, that's not necessarily a complete show-stopper. But likely very, very close.

For what it's worth (not much), it's here. And spoiler: the guy never got to test it.

here.

redcane
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:21 am

Re: my Miev will not charge

Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:00 pm

coulomb wrote:So I'm saying that if it's true that it's write-once, that's not necessarily a complete show-stopper. But likely very, very close.


To me it's more indicative of a principle of exercising power over your customers. Even in the case the dealer can rewrite it, you are still at their mercy to do so. Acting as some kind of a "gatekeeper" seems to only benefit the manufacturer and inconvenience the consumer. It's treating your customers with contempt, and for very marginal benefit.

electronpusher
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:11 am

Re: my Miev will not charge

Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:07 am

kiev wrote:
i have seen used EV-ECU on ebay, but they require the dealer to program in the VIN. Chargers do not require VIN..


if i understand correctly, buying a second hand converter somewhere, and swap it in, should fix the problem? i was told by the dealer that doing that wouldnt work as the converter is VIN locked, though after my experience so far, the dealer appears to be incorrect.

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