1Recycler
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Charging i-Miev Troubles Using Inverter

Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:05 pm

I have put together a solar powered mobile power unit with intent of charging my 2012 I-Miev using the 120vac factory charger that came with the car.

The 2500 watt pure sign inverter will run a drill just fine, but not the Mitsu charger.

What gives?

The charger works just fine in a 120vac wall recepticle, but not on my inverted 12vdc to 120vac.

Anybody have any idea?

kiev
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Location: The Heart o' Dixie
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Re: Charging i-Miev troubles

Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:20 am

What is the power source for the 12VDC input to the sine wave inverter? Can it provide 200 Amps continuously at 12VDC?

Is there a safety-return(aka earth) -ground pin in the output outlet of the sine wave inverter? Does the Neutral leg of the sine wave output connect back to this ground?

The EVSE unit checks that current will flow back thru the ground pin and that the neutral and ground are connected--if it fails either test then it will not turn on.
Last edited by kiev on Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
kiev = kenny's innovative electric vehicle

1Recycler
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Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:22 pm

Re: Charging i-Miev troubles

Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:46 am

4 six volt golf cart hooked up series/ parellel delivering at least 800 watts.
Inverter does have ground lug presently not hooked up.
This power unit is mobile (on small rubber tired wagon).
I will try the ground concern. ( Copper pipe driven into the earth?)
As to the grounding circuit of the inverter, I have no idea.

coulomb
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Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Charging i-Miev troubles

Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:24 pm

The problem may well be that the charger will use way more than a drill or even 800 watts.

You might need to modify the PWM ratio of the pilot signal to request say 6 A from the charger.

The question then would be, is this too slow to be useful.

jray3
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Re: Charging i-Miev troubles

Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:51 pm

I've charged MR BEAN successfully from my tiny solar garage apartment at 8 amps 120V via the Outback PS1, which has a floating ground 120V inverter output. As a matter of fact, only rubber was touching the ground, as I didn't even lower the trailer's tongue jack! However, it has failed to start twice, after which a re-connection allowed normal recharging. http://karmanneclectric.blogspot.com/2018/08/off-grid-ev-charging.html
2012 i-SE "MR BEAN" 94,000 miles
2000 Mazda Miata EV, 78 kW, 17 kWh
1983 Grumman Kurbwatt EV,170 kW, 32 kWh
1983 Mazda RX-7 EV 43 kW 10 kWh
1971 "Karmann Eclectric" EV 240 kW 19 kWh
1965 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet

kiev
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Re: Charging i-Miev troubles

Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:42 pm

1Recycler wrote:4 six volt golf cart hooked up series/ parellel delivering at least 800 watts.
Inverter does have ground lug presently not hooked up.
This power unit is mobile (on small rubber tired wagon).
I will try the ground concern. ( Copper pipe driven into the earth?)
As to the grounding circuit of the inverter, I have no idea.


i wasn't clear--the Ground terminal is a safety-return ground wire for the system, which does connect to an earth-driven grounding rod in the case of power from the Mains, since the Mains transformer to your house is connected into the earth, and any stray currents in your house will be looking for a path back to the transformer. if you don't have or can't afford a ground path, then one will be provided for you with dramatic results.

In your case there is no need for a connection or pipe into the earth, but there does need to be a common connection of Neutral and Ground in the inverter. In the USA the Wide terminal is the Neutral and uses a White wire. Ground is the round pin and uses a Green wire.

If all this doesn't make sense to you, then please hire a local qualified electrician to help you sort out the circuits.
kiev = kenny's innovative electric vehicle

JoeS
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Location: Los Altos Hills, California

Re: Charging i-Miev troubles

Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:03 am

1Recycler, perhaps let us know where you are located and thus which voltage and terminal configuration you are dealing with.

http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3196

I've had no problems charging my North American i-MiEV on both 120vac and 240vac running off pure sine wave, modified sine wave, and inexpensive square wave inverters using either 12vdc or 48vdc. Key is appropriate receptacle grounding, as kiev pointed out.

My own interests are selfish: a solar-powered trailer loaded with batteries as an auxiliary power source so I can both run the house (if it's still standing) and charge my cars after the big one hits us, even though the prospect of getting burned down is nowadays a greater possibility. :shock:
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

1Recycler
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Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:22 pm

Re: Charging i-Miev troubles

Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:07 pm

JoeS wrote:1Recycler, perhaps let us know where you are located and thus which voltage and terminal configuration you are dealing with.

http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3196

I've had no problems charging my North American i-MiEV on both 120vac and 240vac running off pure sine wave, modified sine wave, and inexpensive square wave inverters using either 12vdc or 48vdc. Key is appropriate receptacle grounding, as kiev pointed out.

My own interests are selfish: a solar-powered trailer loaded with batteries as an auxiliary power source so I can both run the house (if it's still standing) and charge my cars after the big one hits us, even though the prospect of getting burned down is nowadays a greater possibility. :shock:


JoeS My American 2012 iMiev located in Nebraska using standard U.S. electrical ends and plugs to try and charge using the 120vac Mitsubishi charger that came with the car.
Drove copper pipe into ground near Power wagon today to hook up ground lug on the inverter to no avail. Still no charging.

What kind of charger are you using to charge your car?
When using house wall 120vac receptical to charge my car, It uses about 8amps, 870watts, 13 to 15 kwhs to charge back up over night. Not sure when it's done charging.

Changed to pure sine from modified sine after reading you should have pure sine to run sensitive electronic gear.

JoeS
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Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:47 am
Location: Los Altos Hills, California

Re: Charging i-Miev Troubles Using Inverter

Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:26 am

1Recycler, thank you for your update. You are probably one of very few i-MiEV owners in the entire state of Nebraska, and IIRC the only one on this forum. Welcome!

The older I get the more reluctant I am to offer specific advice, not knowing what an individual's technical expertise is. Despite my age, I myself continue doing dumb things (see Don's recent post on tire pressures), but know enough to keep one hand in my pocket when working around high voltage (I started when vacuum tubes and HV CRT's were the rage) and usually just suffer the consequences by letting smoke out of some expensive electronics without getting electrocuted or blinded.

With that cautionary preamble, 1Recycler, your question was already very ably and specifically answered by kiev, as the issue deals with ground fault detection circuitry within the Mitsubishi (Panasonic) EVSE. Over the years we've had numerous discussions about this. Here is one such thread -

http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=358

Summarizing -

1. The 'problem' is that there is no connection between the inverter's 120vac ground and neutral pins, which causes the EVSE fault detection circuitry to inhibit charging activation.

2. When using an inverter ONLY to power the i-MiEV EVSE, one simple solution is to make an adapter plug which is internally modified to fool the ground fault detection circuitry. What one then does is plug this adapter into the second 120vac socket on the inverter. There are a number of different ways of doing this (from crude and simple to complicated and supposedly safe), some of which are described in the above thread.

3. Be sure to remove this adapter when using the inverter for any other purpose.

Another cautionary note: as a general rule, DO NOT attach the inverter to house wiring if your power goes out and instead run an extension cord directly from the inverter to, for example, a refrigerator in that situation.

Have fun, and let us know how things turn out.

PS. I modified this thread's title to indicate it relates to charging using an inverter (easier to find in the future).
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

1Recycler
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:22 pm

Re: Charging i-Miev Troubles Using Inverter

Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:05 pm

To Joe E. and all others involved in solving my inverter charging problem.

Used the resister in an extra plug idea installed in one of the inverters outlets to fix my charge problem.

Battery bank must be to small(4 6v cart batteries) as the inverter shuts down before totally recharging EV. Battery to inverter cables are 2 gauge and barely get warm, so I don't think they're a problem.

What harm does leaving /forgeting the resisted plug adaptor in the inverter?


THANKS AGAIN.

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