JoeS
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Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:47 am
Location: Los Altos Hills, California

Re: 12 kW chademo charging

Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:43 pm

jray3 wrote:Yes Joe, the Sunny Island was based on 48V, but the new model will support packs anywhere between actual voltages of 100 and 600 VDC. Our 360V pack is right in the middle.
Here's the spec sheet.
http://files.sma.de/dl/30859/SBS3.8-5.0-6.0-US-DUS173415W.pdf
"Full backup functionality will also be available with a backup unit from 3rd party vendors." in addition to its "2000 W of convenience power". It's still grid-tied as it comes out of the box.

I'm afraid that I've lost sight of what it was we were trying to do.

In the few power outages we've had over the last couple of years all I did was hook up my 48vdc-->120vac inverter and ran an extension cord over to the refrigerator, and I was ready to run my 12vdc-->48vdc dc-dc converter from the i-MiEV's 12v battery to slowly recharge that 48vdc pack. Luckily, the outages were less than about ten hours.

The longest my power was out for was after the Loma Prieta earthquake of '89, and that was over a week. I figure if it happens again I'll be able to cobble up something to charge the i-MiEV - providing my garage is still standing. :roll: My ground-mounted solar array is well under 360vdc so I can't use it directly to charge the i-MiEV through the CHAdeMO port. At worst I can clamp that array's output directly onto the 48v pack and then use that to charge the i-MiEV using the 48vdc-->240vdc 4kW inverter through the throttled-down EVSEUpgraded Mitsu EVSE. :geek:
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

pbui19
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:17 pm

Re: 12 kW chademo charging

Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:16 am

so has any one yet to connect a grid-tie inverter to the Chamedo port ? even with the grid on, to see if it works ?

Joes, Morningstar has a relatively new 600vdc charge controller:

https://www.morningstarcorp.com/product ... mppt-600v/

which you could rig up to your ground mounted PV to charge your 48v pack. Price is coming down, but still around $1400. But in a jam, you can access your ground-mounted panel to disconnect the string and obtain lower DC voltage, even for a 12vdc system

JoeS
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Posts: 3574
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:47 am
Location: Los Altos Hills, California

Re: 12 kW chademo charging

Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:07 pm

pbui19 wrote:so has any one yet to connect a grid-tie inverter to the Chamedo port ? even with the grid on, to see if it works ?
If I were to do that I'd start with a hefty resistor in series to limit the current. Sorry, don't have a spare inverter lying around, and haven't even done the switch mod to close the contactor to light up the CHAdeMO port itself, nor scrounged the pins to pick up the power leads.

pbui19, thanks for the lead for that Morningstar controller.
pbui19 wrote:... But in a jam, you can access your ground-mounted panel to disconnect the string and obtain lower DC voltage, even for a 12vdc system
When you think of a PV panel as a current-source device rather than a voltage source, I can't think of a reason why I can't just take the solar array output and stick it across the battery pack directly without rewiring the series/parallel array arrangement, recognizing that I'd only get the 15A or so that it normally produces at the much higher voltage. On my list of things to try with my 48v pack as a backup for my solar trailer. Unfortunately, my panel array voltage is below 300v so that direct-coupled technique wouldn't work with the i-MiEV. Many moons ago when I first started playing with solar panels I remember being surprised that the quick and dirty way to test the panel's output was simply to short it out with an ammeter.
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

pbui19
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:17 pm

Re: 12 kW chademo charging

Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:23 pm

JoeS wrote:[i]If I were to do that I'd start with a hefty resistor in series to limit the current.

That's an excellent point. In a standard PV gridtie set up, the panels themselves are current the limiter. I guess one way is to add a panel in series to the Chamedo DC, without killing oneself first, to serve as current limiter. Of course the total string voltage would increase, but these grid-tie inverters have very high voltage range these days.

JoeS wrote:When you think of a PV panel as a current-source device rather than a voltage source, I can't think of a reason why I can't just take the solar array output and stick it across the battery pack directly

Indeed in theory you could connect your 360vdc PV string directly to the iMiev Chamedo dc contacts, but the voltage swing would drive the BMS crazy

This is all hypothetical right, because in a real dire situation ala earthquake or hurricane, I am sure Joes wouldn't mind rewiring a few panel connections to get some juice. Furthermore, in such dire situation, sucking the imiev big pack juice via the dc/dc 12vdc straw and putting it back via even at level 1 EVSE would be quite adequate. Hope we will never have to try it.

JoeS
Site Moderator
Posts: 3574
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:47 am
Location: Los Altos Hills, California

Re: 12 kW chademo charging

Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:00 pm

pbui19 wrote:
JoeS wrote:When you think of a PV panel as a current-source device rather than a voltage source, I can't think of a reason why I can't just take the solar array output and stick it across the battery pack directly

Indeed in theory you could connect your 360vdc PV string directly to the iMiev Chamedo dc contacts, but the voltage swing would drive the BMS crazy.
The panels put out around 15A so putting them directly across our low-source-impedance i-MiEV battery pack will merely bring the voltage down to pack level and charge at a miserly 15A, which the BMS shouldn't even blink at.

If the big one hits and my garage is still standing, I'll have lots of options of rewiring the solar panels to feed all the cars and batteries and house. :geek:
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

jray3
Posts: 1575
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:05 am
Location: Tacoma area, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 12 kW chademo charging

Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:17 am

Looks like that Sunny Boy Storage inverter is finally coming to the US market this summer.
http://www.freecleansolar.com/SMA-Sunny-Boy-Storage-3-8-Battery-Inverter-p/sbs3.8.htm
$2500 for 3.8 kW solar and 2 kW backup from a 360V battery pack.
I'm picturing that with a Chademo cable on the Sunny Boy Storage, a CHAdeMO handle that shorts control pins #3 and 10, and a single throw 12V switch between pins #1 & 2 on the quick charging relay, and we could be in business for 2 kW of emergency backup power.

Of course, the official Mitsubishi Power Box at 1.5 kW would be cleaner and cheaper. Here's the JDM 50 hz version for $1750.
https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/suzukimotors/item/tuph004/
2012 i-SE "MR BEAN" 94,000 miles
2000 Mazda Miata EV, 78 kW, 17 kWh
1983 Grumman Kurbwatt EV,170 kW, 32 kWh
1983 Mazda RX-7 EV 43 kW 10 kWh
1971 "Karmann Eclectric" EV 240 kW 19 kWh
1965 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet

footswitch
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:13 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: 12 kW chademo charging

Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:24 pm

Been following this from a distance.
Just to let you know that SETEC (China) makes such DC-AC inverters:
www . setec-power . com/supply/vehicle-to-home

They call it Vehicle to Home or V2H.
Maybe that's common terminology for this type of application.

Cheers

jray3
Posts: 1575
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:05 am
Location: Tacoma area, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 12 kW chademo charging

Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:11 pm

Thanks to some trading with an electrician, I am now the proud owner of a CHAdeMO handle and long cordset to complement the salvaged i-MiEV CHAdeMO inlet that I picked up a while back. It is a first generation Yazaki CHV-03 (the heavy metal handle), removed in a station upgrade to the lightweight plastic handle.
http://charge.yazaki-group.com/english/product/quick_outlet.html

My goal is the ability to do DC bulk charges at home when I want a quick turnaround using a Manzanita Micro charger, as Siai47 first demonstrated. I've also got an Orion 2 BMS on the list for Karmann Eclectric to enable public CHAdeMO use with that car.
Using the actual CHAdeMO cable will enable me to jumper the port pins at the other end of the cable, and engage the second DC contactor from inside the car as Siai47 described.

Of course Setec would be the better way to get legitimate DCFC, but that involves $4k rather than spare parts on hand...
2012 i-SE "MR BEAN" 94,000 miles
2000 Mazda Miata EV, 78 kW, 17 kWh
1983 Grumman Kurbwatt EV,170 kW, 32 kWh
1983 Mazda RX-7 EV 43 kW 10 kWh
1971 "Karmann Eclectric" EV 240 kW 19 kWh
1965 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet

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