MLucas
Posts: 833
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:52 am
Location: Niagara on the Lake, Ontario, Canada

Re: Battery Degradation

Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:57 am

fjpod wrote:Since the weather has turned a little colder here in NY, I think my RR number after a full charge has decreased...but I am also driving the car a little harder out of necessity.

I don't think I will know if it is real battery degradation or just the other factors at play, until next spring/summer.



Its definitely interesting watching how the weather affects the range. Today on a typical 2-3 C day here in Niagara with little wind, I made it to Buffalo with two bars remaining. I think the wind has greater affect on range at this temperature than the temperature does. When the wind is strong and I can hear it howl around the windshield, I can usually count on a faster power drop.

Like Dylan...I went electric.

  • Purchased: June 29th, 2012
  • Mileage on June 29th, 2013 - 25,431 km / 15,802 miles
  • Mileage on June 29th, 2014 - 51,286 km / 32,616 miles

List of Oil Spills: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_spills

AleksM
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Battery Degradation

Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:27 pm

Good afternoon, sorry for my english writing through a translator.
Who can tell what's going on with my battery,
I attach 4 pictures, the first 2 are completely discharged before the battery is disconnected.
The following pictures are fully charged.

car of the year 2011, 68000km,

on the counter enters 10 kilowatts, on one charge in the summer makes up to 60km.

say the battery is dying or something can be done.

Image

Image

Image

Image

kiev
Posts: 925
Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 7:15 am
Location: The Heart o' Dixie
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Degradation

Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:32 am

Howdy Aleks,

Welcome to the forum.

It appears that cell #43 is weak and probably worn out.

Due to the operating system, the capacity and range of the battery pack is limited by the weakest cell.

We have seen a member (Martin) replace just the one weak cell and restore his pack, see a video in this thread:

viewtopic.php?p=23601#p23605
kiev = kenny's innovative electric vehicle

AleksM
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Battery Degradation

Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:23 am

Thank you, I understand that this is the assembly of lev50 4s

tell me to change one or 4 pieces at once? 8 pieces?

Are these cells suitable for replacement?

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a2 ... =10#detail

kiev wrote:Howdy Aleks,

Welcome to the forum.

It appears that cell #43 is weak and probably worn out.

Due to the operating system, the capacity and range of the battery pack is limited by the weakest cell.

We have seen a member (Martin) replace just the one weak cell and restore his pack, see a video in this thread:

viewtopic.php?p=23601#p23605

kiev
Posts: 925
Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 7:15 am
Location: The Heart o' Dixie
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Degradation

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:55 pm

They appear to be the same sized cell, but it's not clear if these are new or used.

Also based upon the limited description information (for example: "Brand: AAA") it's not clear that these are actual G.S. Yuasa LEV50 (50 A-Hr) cells, or some copy, but they do look like real Yuasa LEV50 cells.

Be sure to ask them about these factors before you pay.


If they are the real cells and new, then it is a great price.

If they are real but used, then it is a good deal.

If they are fake, then it is a big risk.
kiev = kenny's innovative electric vehicle

AleksM
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Battery Degradation

Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:20 pm

But the fact that the cells do not fall to the required level of 2.8 V is also caused by a bad cell ??
and what can be done now?

It is believed that if you replace one new element, the device will stop charging, is it true?


kiev wrote:Howdy Aleks,

Welcome to the forum.

It appears that cell #43 is weak and probably worn out.

Due to the operating system, the capacity and range of the battery pack is limited by the weakest cell.

We have seen a member (Martin) replace just the one weak cell and restore his pack, see a video in this thread:

viewtopic.php?p=23601#p23605

kiev
Posts: 925
Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 7:15 am
Location: The Heart o' Dixie
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Degradation

Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:29 am

AleksM wrote:But the fact that the cells do not fall to the required level of 2.8 V is also caused by a bad cell ??
and what can be done now?

It is believed that if you replace one new element, the device will stop charging, is it true?


The car will shut down when only 1 cell reaches the low voltage limit, and #43 will likely be the first cell to go down to the low level in your car. The rest of the cells will still be above the limit but will not be accessible. Either that bad cell, or the module of 4 cells, or the entire pack, must be replaced to restore full range of operation.

i have never heard that the device will stop charging if one cell is replaced.

In fact, in the video link of the thread i posted is shown the replacement of just one cell, and he was able to charge and drive the car as normal--no problem with charging. You can change the settings to watch it at slower speed if desired.
kiev = kenny's innovative electric vehicle

DBMandrake
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:57 am
Location: Scotland

Re: Battery Degradation

Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:24 pm

There is more than one weak cell shown in those fully discharged cell voltages - I count about 5 weak cells that are 200mV or more below the average voltage. It's difficult to tell looking at a table of numbers though.

If possible I would recommend using Canion to get a screenshot of the voltage graph when near discharged as it is much easier to evaluate in visual form. For example here is a fully discharged graph from my car a year ago:

Image

As can be seen, cells 25, 69 and 70 are weak on my car with 25 and 70 being the worst. They also have high internal resistance which shows as an excessively high voltage during rapid charging which limits peak charging rate prematurely.

The 25.8Ah reported on your car is a severely degraded battery. (new is about 46Ah) Mine has done 50k miles and is down to 35.2Ah which I already consider to be significantly lower than it should be for the mileage. (I also have some weak cells) However your low figure may be the result of just a few bad cells.

The problem with replacing them is that the replacements have to be at least as good as the good cells remaining in the pack, and there is no easy way to know what the Ah capacity of the best cells in your pack are.

Any second hand cells are likely to be degraded and may be even worse than the ones you're trying to replace. I found some second hand cells for my car but when the seller tested them they were down to about 28Ah so were considerably worse than even the weak ones in my pack! This despite them coming from a car with half the mileage as mine. (Needless to say the purchase was cancelled)

So beware of second hand cells unless the seller is an EV battery specialist and willing to measure their Ah capacity and vouch for them.

AleksM wrote:But the fact that the cells do not fall to the required level of 2.8 V is also caused by a bad cell ??
and what can be done now?

Not sure what you mean by "required level of 2.8 volts" ?? These cars do not discharge the cells this low. Normal cutoff voltage at 0% SoC for an 88 cell car is 320 volts for the pack or about 3.64 volts per cell. If the pack is badly degraded the cutoff voltage may be lower than 320 volts however.
- Simon

EV: 2011 Peugeot Ion
ICE: 1997 Citroen Xantia V6

AleksM
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Battery Degradation

Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:01 pm

canion expensive

I plan to buy new cells and change them in whole modules of 8-16 pieces, approximately 8-16 pieces per month

figures translated into the schedule

Image

AleksM
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Battery Degradation

Tue May 21, 2019 5:53 pm

Replaced 4 cells.
https://www.drive2.ru/l/531427780760437096/

working scanner with great functionality
https://www.drive2.ru/l/530716671615172946/

kiev wrote:They appear to be the same sized cell, but it's not clear if these are new or used.

Also based upon the limited description information (for example: "Brand: AAA") it's not clear that these are actual G.S. Yuasa LEV50 (50 A-Hr) cells, or some copy, but they do look like real Yuasa LEV50 cells.

Be sure to ask them about these factors before you pay.


If they are the real cells and new, then it is a great price.

If they are real but used, then it is a good deal.

If they are fake, then it is a big risk.

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